Identified! WI - Delafield, WhtMale, UP7632, car stolen, lighter, Sep'77 - John Lindberg Scott

I know they did airbrushing as far back as the 1960s senior yearbook portraits where I grew up in Virginia. My older sister graduated in 1966 & they completely airbrushed out every single freckle & made her skin look perfect.
I thought of the Stack boy too when I saw this, partly because he just appeared on Doe Network this past week & I've been trying to find UIDs that might match him. It's hard to tell when comparing a live smiling person to a postmortem. Stack also looks like his hair could be more blond than brown. The only thing that I'm not sure of is the nose. From the front I don't know if his nose is as sharp or downward slanted.
I don't know which I find odder, people who simply disappear off the face of the earth or people who remain unidentified for 30-40 years. It's hard to believe sometimes that these things actually happen.

dogperson said:

Stack also looks like his hair could be more blond than brown. The only thing that I'm not sure of is the nose. From the front I don't know if his nose is as sharp or downward slanted.

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It's hard to say without a side profile shot of Stack, but I do agree that it is a concern. With noticeable blood under the UID's nostrils I have wondered if they didn't bother to see if the nose was broken, or if the impact from the accident caused some type of nasal rupturing that may have slightly changed his "normal" appearance (via swelling etc...).

What initially caught my attention was what Carbuff clearly mentioned about the differences between the left and right sides of Stack's face...and the shape of Stack's head compared to the UID. The nose to me, from the UID photo facing the camera, didn't seem unreasonably off...but a solid comparison is hard to make.

Hopefully I'll hear back from either contact (CO and/or WI) soon.

Waukesha County Sheriffs added another link to Namus regarding this UID (there are two links for the same case....this is the new link)

https://identifyus.org/cases/7632

Here is some updated contact and case information:

Local Medical Examiner/Coroner Contact
Agency Waukesha Cnty Med Examiners Ofc
Phone 262-548-7575
Case Manager Name: Patrice Plungis
Email pplungis@waukeshacounty.gov

Circumstances of death

A Deputy with the Waukesha County Sheriff's Department was on duty on September 14, 1977 and was parked on the highway. A car sped by, which the Deputy then followed and attempted to pullover. The driver of the car then exited the highway onto Golf Road and reached high speeds trying to flee. The car then approached the intersection of Golf Road and SS, which is a sharp turn, and ended up in the wooded area off the road. The unidentified male was the sole operator of the vehicle and no other cars were involved. The Deputy exited his vehicle and looked for the driver in the wooded area and found the vehicle upside down. The driver was found approximately 25 feet away from the vehicle. The coroner responded to the scene and tranferred the body to the Waukesha County Morgue.

Additional Items Found: 3 sets of keys, several bags of women's clothes in car and cash.

Additionally I did hear back from Colorado authorities regarding David Stack, they are looking into if he had a denture plate or scarring to match w/ our UID.

Much earlier in the thread someone brought up Martin Munawych as a possibility.


I'm not sure if anyone did any follow up on this...I couldn't find any "yay" or "nay" or any type of response...so anyways, I am in contact with his family and I will keep you posted on anything they are willing to share.

Here is the Charley Project page on Bernard "Bunny" Ross, who was mentioned earlier on this thread.


http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/r/ross_bernard.html

Wow--not to change the subject, but Bernard looks similar to Benjam Kyle!

CarlK90245 said:

Here is the Charley Project page on Bernard "Bunny" Ross, who was mentioned earlier on this thread.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/r/ross_bernard.html

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Again, not to make this off-topic, but Patrick, I'm so glad your family decided to have Bernard's profile posted on NCMEC and Charley Project, and I hope it leads to some answers for you.

Back to the Delafield John Doe. There is little description of the women's clothing. Was it all the same size, fancy clothes or casual stuff, was it complete outfits or just a few pairs of pants and shirts, and was it a size that would have fit John Doe? As was previously pointed out, he was wearing a somewhat odd combination of clothing himself, so was the clothing a female friend's, was it pricey stuff he'd stolen to re-sell or was he a transvestite? I assume if it had belonged to the owner of the stolen car then LE wouldn't have described it as though it belonged, along with the keys and cash, to John Doe.

That's easy to rule out Bunny Ross being Delafield UID. Secondly, Benjamin Kyle doesn't look close enough to be 52 yr old living Bernard Ross as Jules thinks. He's more of 60 as the age range. Like Masnitram said earlier, that UID looks more like Martin Munawych but the problem is both are different physical appearance. It's worth to ask Martin's family to see if he's their missing family member.

I started a thread for Bernard Ross here in the appropriate section;

ME ME - Bernard "Bunny" Ross Jr., 18, Ashland, 12 May 1977 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community



I should be hearing back from Martin Munawych's brother by either tomorrow or Monday. I initially contacted Martin's niece who directed me to her father. Too make a long story short, Martin's sister-in-law was the first to reply and will be providing me more details on his disappearance AND a "yes" or "no" on if our WI-UID is him. If the answer is "no"; I will start another thread for Martin in the appropriate area too.

Ok, I spoke to the detective handling the Martin Munawych disappearence. They have concluded that he is not our WI-UID.

Here is the criteria/discrepencies between Martin and the WI-UID. (The 4 items listed here was retrieved from an Email he sent me)

1. According to his mother, Martin was last know to have very good teeth, vs the partial dental plate as mentioned in the NCMA report.

2. Martin did not have extensive chest hair

3. Martin was circumcised.

4. Martin had surgery for a strangulated hernia, therefore would have had a scar showing that surgery. There was no indication of such a scar in the NCMA report

He verbally mentioned that Martin does have DNA available and the case is still active. He also mentioned that Martin is in no-way the UID from the South Carolina "Mystery Couple" case from 1976...he had been contact previously regarding that case as well.

we've ruled out:

Douglas Mueller
Leo Burt
Martin Munawych
Bernard "Bunny" Ross Jr

We're still pending information on David Stack

http://www.missing-u.ca/MPDetail.aspx?PersonID=813

Mark Mayhew?

A couple of issues here, but I can't get past his photo.


1. No teeth. Mayhew had false teeth but was not wearing them at the time. If he literally had NO teeth then obviously he isn't our guy. If the info is wrong and he was missing teeth and had partial plate....then maybe.

2. Hair color is wrong, even in the UID photo. I know hair color can change with the amount of sun exposure etc...so it isn't unreasonable for his hair to lighten in the summer months.

3. Circumstances, I don't read them and think of our UID....but again...things aren't always as they seem so who really knows.

What do you guys think? What catches my attention is his photo compared to the drawing found in the 1980 newspaper article posted earlier. The nose from the actual UID and Mayhew seem close, especially the side shot of our JD.

Newspaper link: (note, the story continues so you have to page around to find the drawing of the UID) http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1499&dat=19800814&id=0WoaAAAAIBAJ&sjid=uCsEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4749,1755853

* I haven't heard anything from Colorado yet regarding David Stack, I'm going to try again.....

A several differences between UID & Mark Mayhew:

1. Color of hair (UID-Light Brown, MM-Dark Brown)
2. Dimple Chin (MM-doesn't have it)
3. Age (UID-17/25, MM-29 in 1977)
4. Eyebrows (UID-medium, MM-thick)
5. Feature descriptions (UID- lot of them, MM-lack of it except no teeth)

It's hard to tell whether it's same person but it's worth for you to submit MM as Delafield UID and only MM's family members know more about his ID characteristics since OPP provided little info about him.

KLCD620 said:

A several differences between UID & Mark Mayhew:

1. Color of hair (UID-Light Brown, MM-Dark Brown)
2. Dimple Chin (MM-doesn't have it)
3. Age (UID-17/25, MM-29 in 1977)
4. Eyebrows (UID-medium, MM-thick)
5. Feature descriptions (UID- lot of them, MM-lack of it except no teeth)

It's hard to tell whether it's same person but it's worth for you to submit MM as Delafield UID and only MM's family members know more about his ID characteristics since OPP provided little info about him.

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The second (or the newest) link for our JD, has him est to be 20-30 yrs of age....the other sources do say 17-25 albeit. I think the newspapers even report him as early-mid 20's...which I know isn't 29...but close enough, closer then 19 IMO.

I'm not so sure about the dimple in the chin not being on our UID. The side profile shot to me shows a "dent" or something (though for argument sake it could be a shadow).

Yes, the eyebrows are a huge concern as well as the teeth. I'm only looking at from a "reporting" error standpoint.

I did put in an inquiry with the Canadian LE; I don't want to strain any relationship with Waukesha County right now (they have been more then nice to deal with FYI but I'd rather not inundate them).

Much earlier today I had a conversation with the detective who handles cold cases at the Waukesha County Sheriffs Dept regarding this case and a few others.

Here is what I can share.

In late 1983 or early 1984 they received instructions to discard all items from cases deemed "unsolvable"; including our JD's clothes and the items found on him (The detective did state his displeasure regarding this fact).

The owner of the stolen 1962 Pontiac Catalina was informed that his vehicle was recovered, but considering the condition he collected the insurance money and the vehicle was disposed of, never to be seen again by anyone. The gentlemen who owned the vehicle did not know anyone named "John"; and was not the owner of the lighter. There is no information regarding if the bags of ladies clothing was the vehicle owners or the deceased. He stated he came home from work the prior day, parked his vehicle as usual and when he woke up early the next AM discovered the vehicle missing...and that was it, other then the mysterious bicycle in his front yard. The Gurnee Police Dept. ran the serial numbers from the bicycle and even had the newspaper publish the information regarding the bicycle and our JD in hopes of identifying him. For the record the name on the lighter is "LAURI" and reads "To John From Lauri". In addition to the clothes there were several library books found in the car; sadly no information was gained from the books.

The detective stated that no real dental information was gathered from the John Doe, not even a record of which teeth the upper denture plate was used for. Something I learned was that the method used to collect the fingerprints was so antiquated that there is no way to run them for comparison against other missing persons. I wish I would have had him elaborate further on what process was used...maybe some of you know. I asked him about JD and his hair color, he stated it was definitively brown. He also was/is unhappy because the flashbulb "washed out" his hair color and gave it more of a reddish brown/auburn look when it is in reality about as "brown as brown hair can get".

One thing not stated in the reports, which he told me I am free to share, was that JD did have a wallet on him. No identification, of course, was found...but there was a card for a local RV/Camper dealership on the Wisconsin/Illinois border. The dealership has exchanged hands many times over the past 33 years and the owner back in 1977 is deceased. He did state his desire to go there himself and talk to anyone there, perhaps to find out or see employee records from 1977 in hopes that perhaps our JD worked there.

The Gurnee Police Department and Waukesha County looked into many of same theories we discussed here. Nobody went AWOL from the Great Lakes Naval Base nor were there any prison escapes or hospital patients that vanished. He told me that those angles I just mentioned were the same areas explored by them both back in 1977 and now.

Unfortunately, and again the detective is equally unhappy about this, all that is left of our JD is the photos and a file that is about 4 inches thick with much of the same information we already know.

He is buried in an unmarked grave and they are holding on to hopes of getting a budget approved to exhume him to retrieve a DNA sample. They do know where he is...he told me he has stood "right on top on him" many times.

He did ask me to keep in touch with him and to feel free to bounce any ideas we come up with off of him. All in all he was a very nice person who really wants to have this case solved. I was happy to hear from him how unhappy he is with how the case was handled from the beginning.

KLCD620 said:

A several differences between UID & Mark Mayhew:

1. Color of hair (UID-Light Brown, MM-Dark Brown)
2. Dimple Chin (MM-doesn't have it)
3. Age (UID-17/25, MM-29 in 1977)
4. Eyebrows (UID-medium, MM-thick)
5. Feature descriptions (UID- lot of them, MM-lack of it except no teeth)

It's hard to tell whether it's same person but it's worth for you to submit MM as Delafield UID and only MM's family members know more about his ID characteristics since OPP provided little info about him.

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One thing about dimples -- even in the chin, they often only show up when the person smiles. Presumably the dead man wasn't smiling.

That's very informative and thank you for gathering all those facts for this case. Did he explain any more about the library books and why they weren't any help in regards to his identity? They probably weren't checked out electronically in 1977, so patrons would probably have had to remove the card from the pocket inside the cover, sign that and give it to the librarian to keep. Of course, if these were library discards (books removed from the collection and either sold or given away,) long-overdue books that the library had given up on and discarded the cards to, or stolen from the library they might not have been helpful. Likewise if John Doe had gotten a library card under a false name, though that might indicate he'd been in town awhile.

I wonder what city the RV/Camper dealership in the WI/IL border was in.

CarlK90245 said:

I wonder what city the RV/Camper dealership in the WI/IL border was in.

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Collier RV Sky Harbor
16125 Russell Road, Russell, IL
(847) 395-9500 ‎

I believe it was known (in 1977) as just "Sky Harbor RV";it is very visable from the highway (1-94) and it has been there forever.
(In fact I use to occasionally voice their radio commercials in the late 90's early 2000's)

*FYI, google and a few others refer to Sky Harbor RV being in Zion, IL

tatertot said:

That's very informative and thank you for gathering all those facts for this case. Did he explain any more about the library books and why they weren't any help in regards to his identity? They probably weren't checked out electronically in 1977, so patrons would probably have had to remove the card from the pocket inside the cover, sign that and give it to the librarian to keep. Of course, if these were library discards (books removed from the collection and either sold or given away,) long-overdue books that the library had given up on and discarded the cards to, or stolen from the library they might not have been helpful. Likewise if John Doe had gotten a library card under a false name, though that might indicate he'd been in town awhile.

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No, unfortunately he wasn't really sure what the deal was either. The record basically indicated that the books didn't provide any value, attempts were made but nothing added up to the identity of our JD.

And I realize I didn't mention this earlier....Gurnee Police really feel that he is/was LOCAL....Waukesha Sheriffs concur....

I think he is definitely closer to 25 years old. As it was mentioned earlier he has a lot of chest hair and looking at his face, it doesn't look the the face of a teenager. You would think with the dental plate he'd be much easier to identify. It is definitely something that would be mentioned in a missing persons report I would think. That's a pretty significant detail to leave out.