GUILTY Canada - Marie-France Comeau, 37, & Jessica Lloyd, 27, slain, Ont, 2009 & 2010 - #6

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latte said:
I don't know what they want from her, apart from many I'm guessing want her accountable if she's done anything financially underhanded. Far as I'm aware, Massicotte wants her to stand up and be counted, she wants to hear from her in some way. She's been unable to work and is angry. Jane Doe wants money and wants to be sure nothing was underhand in the property dealings.

For what it's worth, I think yes, she should be penalised if she was trying to pull a fast one. Just like everyone else would be. But you know, the pension would have been disclosed in a show & tell even if it had been kept 'secret' from the public. All assets as well of course.
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Imagine if everything you believed and loved, your life, your home, your world was a lie. Imagine if you were in your fifties and everything that defined who you were was a facade. I think that MEH is suffering in that world, and I don't think it's a very nice place to be. I doubt that it is something that she can recover from. No number of dollars is going to make her feel better. It sounds like some people think that money will make them feel better. Surely people are not thinking that MEH should be punished financially for something her husband did. Surely people are not thinking to deliberately add to her suffering.

I would like to understand the circumstances under which the pension was transferred, and whether it was done under a lawyer's advice. It's not too late to put things back in order with the pension.

I don't think that MEH owes anyone an explanation. She's a victim of her husband and like many other victims, she has a right to heal in her own private way.
 
otto said:
Imagine if everything you believed and loved, your life, your home, your world was a lie. Imagine if you were in your fifties and everything that defined who you were was a facade. I think that MEH is suffering in that world, and I don't think it's a very nice place to be. I doubt that it is something that she can recover from. No number of dollars is going to make her feel better. It sounds like some people think that money will make them feel better. Surely people are not thinking that MEH should be punished financially for something her husband did. Surely people are not thinking to deliberately add to her suffering.

I would like to understand the circumstances under which the pension was transferred, and whether it was done under a lawyer's advice. It's not too late to put things back in order with the pension.

I don't think that MEH owes anyone an explanation. She's a victim of her husband and like many other victims, she has a right to heal in her own private way.
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Great post Otto. I couldn't agree with you more, especially your very last paragraph. I have always felt that MEH was a victim in this entire thing. She didn't tell her husband to commit these horrible crimes, nor was she even aware that her husband was responsible while they were occurring. She now has to live the rest of her life knowing she was married to this man.

I don't know anything about the pension, though I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if it was done under a lawyer's advice, and IIRC, no one was even aware of the divorce proceedings or the transfer of assets, until the public annoucement was made that one of the victim's was suing RW and his wife and at that point their assets were frozen.
 
Personally, I can't understand how MEH could even have the stomache to look that SOB in the face ever again.. She may have taken the advice of her lawyer and grabbed whatever she could (very early in this case) but I remain convinced that it was done only to prevent the victims from obtaining anything from a penniless RW..I also wondered if the infamous cottage was purchased by MEH & RW from what she would have received from the death of her father, which I believe occured shortly before the purchase. That cottage is now worthless as I doubt anyone would want to live in it. It's easy to wonder how money could help a victim but MEH seems to think that money will ease her troubles as that seems to be a big issue with her and something she wants to protect but she wants it all!
 
Macright said:
... It's easy to wonder how money could help a victim ...
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<rsbm>

Civil action is the only remedy available to victims, and money is pretty much the only remedy the civil courts can award. With victims, justice isn't so much about the ultimate dollar value of the suit, but more about holding the guilty party accountable to the nth degree via the only legal avenue available to them personally.
 
Macright said:
Personally, I can't understand how MEH could even have the stomache to look that SOB in the face ever again.. She may have taken the advice of her lawyer and grabbed whatever she could (very early in this case) but I remain convinced that it was done only to prevent the victims from obtaining anything from a penniless RW..I also wondered if the infamous cottage was purchased by MEH & RW from what she would have received from the death of her father, which I believe occured shortly before the purchase. That cottage is now worthless as I doubt anyone would want to live in it. It's easy to wonder how money could help a victim but MEH seems to think that money will ease her troubles as that seems to be a big issue with her and something she wants to protect but she wants it all!
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If anyone needs an explanation about why, I think it is MEH. She lived with the man for 19 years and it seems that didn't know what kind of monster he was. If she has to meet with him to ask him some questions, she should.

Splitting the property and sorting out the finances may have seemed like the logical thing to do. If Ontario has compensation for victims of violence, it may have never crossed her mind that victims would also seek compensation from her husband.

It seems we're assuming that MEH knew that victims would seek compensation and that she deliberately attempted to interfere with that process. Why are we assuming that?
 
otto said:
If anyone needs an explanation about why, I think it is MEH. She lived with the man for 19 years and it seems that didn't know what kind of monster he was. If she has to meet with him to ask him some questions, she should.

Splitting the property and sorting out the finances may have seemed like the logical thing to do. If Ontario has compensation for victims of violence, it may have never crossed her mind that victims would also seek compensation from her husband.

It seems we're assuming that MEH knew that victims would seek compensation and that she deliberately attempted to interfere with that process. Why are we assuming that?
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I don't think we are assuming MEH thought of this, it was probably RW, but she went along with it. Under normal circumstances you would wonder how someone who has faced such a devastating shock would be transferring assets so quickly. I think most of the perception of MEH being selfish comes from her insistence that LE pay for her scratched floors. Kind of seemed like she was mad at everyone except RW.:waitasec: The fact that she still visits him makes me wonder about the real reasons for the divorce.
 
otto said:
If anyone needs an explanation about why, I think it is MEH. She lived with the man for 19 years and it seems that didn't know what kind of monster he was. If she has to meet with him to ask him some questions, she should.

Splitting the property and sorting out the finances may have seemed like the logical thing to do. If Ontario has compensation for victims of violence, it may have never crossed her mind that victims would also seek compensation from her husband.

It seems we're assuming that MEH knew that victims would seek compensation and that she deliberately attempted to interfere with that process. Why are we assuming that?
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I am assuming that because I believe that is what she would have been told by any lawyer...the victims that "lived to tell the tale" would more than likely seek compensation from RW by way of a law suit.. Her compensation for her damaged floors helped change my opinion of MEH and what I have further read only compounds my beliefs. Sorry if others have a different opinion than mine but until I hear something different I stand by what I believe. I respect your opinion if it differs from mine Otto.
 
maxfactor said:
I don't think we are assuming MEH thought of this, it was probably RW, but she went along with it. Under normal circumstances you would wonder how someone who has faced such a devastating shock would be transferring assets so quickly. I think most of the perception of MEH being selfish comes from her insistence that LE pay for her scratched floors. Kind of seemed like she was mad at everyone except RW.:waitasec: The fact that she still visits him makes me wonder about the real reasons for the divorce.
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Six weeks after he was in jail, the pension was transferred to MEH. I'm guessing that she contacted a lawyer as soon as her husband was arrested and sought to sort out how to separate herself from him. Williams probably willingly agreed to whatever she wanted.

She has visited him 4 times - which is not much.

As for the floors, he was primarily living in Tweed, and she was primarily living in Ottawa. Is it normal that when police damage property during a search, they pay for the damages?
 
Macright said:
I am assuming that because I believe that is what she would have been told by any lawyer...the victims that "lived to tell the tale" would more than likely seek compensation from RW by way of a law suit.. Her compensation for her damaged floors helped change my opinion of MEH and what I have further read only compounds my beliefs. Sorry if others have a different opinion than mine but until I hear something different I stand by what I believe. I respect your opinion if it differs from mine Otto.
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I can't think of a single lawsuit where the convicted person was sued after a sexual assault.
 
otto said:
I can't think of a single lawsuit where the convicted person was sued after a sexual assault.
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maybe this case will set a precedent for future high profile crimes...and rightly so.. my sympathy lies with the real victims, the ones who were both physically and mentally abused by RW and survived somehow.. I don't believe that MEH fits this discription IMO...
 
Macright said:
maybe this case will set a precedent for future high profile crimes...and rightly so.. my sympathy lies with the real victims, the ones who were both physically and mentally abused by RW and survived somehow.. I don't believe that MEH fits this discription IMO...
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Sure, but you said that: "I am assuming that because I believe that is what she would have been told by any lawyer...the victims that "lived to tell the tale" would more than likely seek compensation from RW by way of a law suit."

Since it is not normal for victims to sue people convicted of sexual assault, it is not likely that the lawyer for MEH told her to expect a lawsuit.
 
otto said:
Six weeks after he was in jail, the pension was transferred to MEH. I'm guessing that she contacted a lawyer as soon as her husband was arrested and sought to sort out how to separate herself from him. Williams probably willingly agreed to whatever she wanted.

She has visited him 4 times - which is not much.

As for the floors, he was primarily living in Tweed, and she was primarily living in Ottawa. Is it normal that when police damage property during a search, they pay for the damages?
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BBM: This is pretty standard if LE damage property during a search, you are entitled to request payment for the damage they have caused. I know a few people think it wasn't right for her to request payment because of the victims, my personal opinion is that she is also a victim and she is entitled to have her floors repaired - she was not the one committing the crimes.

Ontario has a victim compensation board that the victims of sexual assault can apply for. The maximimum amount awarded is $25,000 (for an individual) or $150,000 for a group claim.

Her lawyer no doubt discussed with her what she was allowed in the divorce and they started the process, only to have her assets frozen because someone decided they wanted to sue for more than what the compensation board would give them - If I were one of his victims, I'd just be happy he is behind bars for the rest of his life, had a speedy sentencing, because he pleaded guilty, and can now never hurt anyone every again - this of course, is just MOO.
 
otto said:
As for the floors, he was primarily living in Tweed, and she was primarily living in Ottawa. Is it normal that when police damage property during a search, they pay for the damages?
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That's a tricky question and I haven't seen an official answer anywhere. I know that when the customs people trash a car at the border looking for contraband, they won't put it back as it was if they find any. Not sure what happens when the victim is an unsuspecting "mule". In MEH's case, she apparently didn't know about her husband's stash. I suppose the OPP thought it would be cheaper to compensate her for the damage they did than to try and prove she knew what was hidden in the house. Definitely a good PR move.
 
nobodyzgirl said:
BBM: This is pretty standard if LE damage property during a search, you are entitled to request payment for the damage they have caused. I know a few people think it wasn't right for her to request payment because of the victims, my personal opinion is that she is also a victim and she is entitled to have her floors repaired - she was not the one committing the crimes.

Ontario has a victim compensation board that the victims of sexual assault can apply for. The maximimum amount awarded is $25,000 (for an individual) or $150,000 for a group claim.

Her lawyer no doubt discussed with her what she was allowed in the divorce and they started the process, only to have her assets frozen because someone decided they wanted to sue for more than what the compensation board would give them - If I were one of his victims, I'd just be happy he is behind bars for the rest of his life, had a speedy sentencing, because he pleaded guilty, and can now never hurt anyone every again - this of course, is just MOO.
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Thanks. That must be where the $75k figure comes from. I saw that mentioned somewhere. Also since there is compensation for damaged property, then I don't think MEH's application to have the brand new floors repaired is a reason to criticize.

Personally, I think it would be a real shame to see Canada go the way of the US, where everyone is lawsuit-happy.
 
JayFriend said:
That's a tricky question and I haven't seen an official answer anywhere. I know that when the customs people trash a car at the border looking for contraband, they won't put it back as it was if they find any. Not sure what happens when the victim is an unsuspecting "mule". In MEH's case, she apparently didn't know about her husband's stash. I suppose the OPP thought it would be cheaper to compensate her for the damage they did than to try and prove she knew what was hidden in the house. Definitely a good PR move.
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Thanks. So it sounds like it depends somewhat on the circumstances. If someone knowingly breaks the law, and police damage the property, then there is no compensation but if police damage property and the person did not do anything to break the law, then there is compensation. I guess the townhouse is a bit of a grey area since it was the primary residence of MEH, and she did not know anything about breaking the law, but at the same time it was also co-owned by Russell.
 
otto said:
If anyone needs an explanation about why, I think it is MEH. She lived with the man for 19 years and it seems that didn't know what kind of monster he was. If she has to meet with him to ask him some questions, she should.

Splitting the property and sorting out the finances may have seemed like the logical thing to do. If Ontario has compensation for victims of violence, it may have never crossed her mind that victims would also seek compensation from her husband.

It seems we're assuming that MEH knew that victims would seek compensation and that she deliberately attempted to interfere with that process. Why are we assuming that?
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BBM: Well, compensation isn't a concept that's unfamiliar to her.

It wouldn't be a stretch to consider that a highly educated, upper level executive would be capable of correlating her own rationale for a compensation request with the rationale of her husbands victims, for a compensation request. Surely such a person would have considered litigation was inevitable, as I am sure RW did, and I do believe there was an intention there to give MEH ALL the financial assets, to keep them away from that inevitable litigation.

Hopefully court documents will indicate the timing of the events, which might shed some light on the subject. I really don't know what the law says with regards to a contract such as the one MEH and RW put together, and I don't really know how the plaintiff will prove there was some sort of underhanded transferring.
 
otto said:
Six weeks after he was in jail, the pension was transferred to MEH. I'm guessing that she contacted a lawyer as soon as her husband was arrested and sought to sort out how to separate herself from him. Williams probably willingly agreed to whatever she wanted.

She has visited him 4 times - which is not much.

As for the floors, he was primarily living in Tweed, and she was primarily living in Ottawa. Is it normal that when police damage property during a search, they pay for the damages?
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BBM: MEH has been to see RW more than 4 times.

She has visited Kingston Penitentiary four times since his guilty plea last October, most recently in March (2011). The visits occurred during the time since his guilty plea, since she returned home from her self-imposed, psychiatrist advised time-out, her leaving of the country to &#8220;escape the intense media coverage.&#8221;

What I am curious to know, and I wonder if the timing will indicate in court documents, that in March of 2010, her condition had improved with her psychiatrist, and if this is because of the monetary compensation provided to her in her contract with her husband.

She was initially &#8220;very distraught&#8221; and &#8220;weepy,&#8221; and &#8220;had difficulties sleeping, concentrating, and with her immediate memory.&#8221;

By March (2010), however, her condition improved to the point where she was able to return to the townhouse and resume her work.

http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/04/25/a-matter-of-public-record/2/
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