CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #2

libyana said:

Success, I have been trying to post for a while. I have a nagging feeling all these attacks are by the same person . Forgetting age and appearance, these women AG, SV, SL have things in common. They have habits which include pets, are alone at certain times and seem to have been stalked and ambushed. they were surrounded by woods and trees.
I get this nagging feeling that the perp was trying to get AG to her car. Was it about 2. 30 in the morning? not really a time to be out and about.

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Welcome Libyana! Yes, we have been thinking that there is a connection between all 3 victims....

roseofsharon said:

Due to xmas/new year season, prowlers are scoping out homes to break into, where they believe owners could be away for the holidays.

Apparently, this road is somewhat hidden, thus it provided a potential thief with ample obscurity. Was anything taken from the home?

imo

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Whatever might have been taken has not been revealed by LE, although it may or may not be hinted at- near the bottom of the upthread blog I posted...

serial killers like to collect trophies. Could KF's murder be the same perp, a kind of 'off season' murder given the cold and visibility in snow, not much tree cover footprints etc. She was maybe naive being so young and an easy victim. I believe she may have been brought up here to Caledon, It would be interesting to find out what side of the road she was dumped, coming in or out of Caledon.

By the way , I am from Britain and Fred West was in our area in the 60's Now I find out that The colonel Russell also hailed from a small town near where I was born in Worcestershire! It took 30 years to get Fred, we all knew him , he trawled the surrounding countryside for years. Everyone thought he was 'daft'. So I have been interested in serial killers for years. I find that none of my girlfriends here want to talk about it, they are too freaked out.

Welcome libyana - both to this site and to Canada!

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I just reread the link provided by dotr and something struck me. In the blog, the writer says that AG was "a nice old lady and you are homeless". Is the writer referring to DLS? If so, it's rather harsh considering we all know why DLS has problems having a job and a home - you know, like "normal people".

QUESTION: Is the writer of the blog referring to DLS or to someone else? Quite possibly, the writer knows who committed this crime.

Thoughts, please.

Thank you. I have been here a long time and near Orangeville for twenty years.
I was very disturbed by these murders, but i do find that by discussing and analyzing them
somehow empowers you and you can lose some of the fear.
I find people are too quick to jump on so called 'weird' people and i bet you could not pick this perp out in a crowd. I've got a feeling he's hiding in plain sight.
A word about AG, my dad was east european an a terrible hoarder these guys had nothing and nothing went to waste. I would bet she picked these traits up because I certainly did!

It has crossed my mind that perhaps AG was somewhat of a 'hoarder'. But to be truthful, we ALL are hoarders, in a way. It seems the human condition needs to collect "stuff". It's what defines us, I think. Our "stuff", I mean.:twocents:

No_Stone_Unturned said:

Welcome libyana - both to this site and to Canada!

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I just reread the link provided by dotr and something struck me. In the blog, the writer says that AG was "a nice old lady and you are homeless". Is the writer referring to DLS? If so, it's rather harsh considering we all know why DLS has problems having a job and a home - you know, like "normal people".

QUESTION: Is the writer of the blog referring to DLS or to someone else? Quite possibly, the writer knows who committed this crime.

Thoughts, please.

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I was initially taken aback as well - but I think that this blog was written before info about DS was released and he was no longer a suspect.

dotr said:

I was initially taken aback as well - but I think that this blog was written before info about DS was released and he was no longer a suspect.

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So, you think the blogger WAS talking about DLS? Or someone else? (I'm confused).

libyana said:

Success, I have been trying to post for a while. I have a nagging feeling all these attacks are by the same person . Forgetting age and appearance, these women AG, SV, SL have things in common. They have habits which include pets, are alone at certain times and seem to have been stalked and ambushed. they were surrounded by woods and trees.
I get this nagging feeling that the perp was trying to get AG to her car. Was it about 2. 30 in the morning? not really a time to be out and about.

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Yes Libyana I agree -- why out and about at that time in the morning and very cold as well in December. I also agree with you that the perp in all these three attacks are the same person.

I note the numbers in the dates are similar from what we know 27 and 29/30.

imo

sillybilly said:

PK ... Can you please tell us who provided you the exact link that AG used to send the Amazing Grace email? Which leads me to ...

Do you know why AG had 4 computers?

Were the dogs always confined in another room when you visited with AG inside the home?

And finally (for now ), do you have any idea why you were allowed extensive time in her home, compared to LV, who was hardly ever in the home in the 30 some-odd years she and AG were friends?

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Hey all, sorry for my brief absence! I've missed the forum. It's as much a mystery to me as to anyone else where AG got the link... I awoke on the 27th to find it already in my mailbox.

I suppose her four computers were just an expression of her affinity for experimentation. She only frequently used one. She kept another completely offline. The third was for experimentation with linux and the fourth was extremely old and not used for quite some time.

Nope... the dogs would be allowed to come visit me while I sat on the couch with AG.

I think dotr called it... the only reason that I can imagine for my being the only one allowed in the home was just because that was the kind of relationship we had... AG really expected a huge level of open-ness from me and reciprocated in kind by, for example, inviting me inside.

shadowraiths said:

Okay, finally finished catching up on these two threads. I have a few (ok, more than a few) thoughts and questions between and below.

Loose ends (aka, the questions)

PK, can you possibly enlighten us wrt why LE immediately noted the "sexual component"? That is, what, in your opinion, about the crime scene led them to that conclusion? Also, do you know if there were any sites she frequented? If she said anything about them. Particularly, if she ever pointed out posts/web sites she liked or sent links that were not your normal news, research articles, youtube pages? And finally, what reason did she give for the tidying bit? Or did she? That is, did you get the impression she was preparing for company? Even if she did not actually coming out and say something? Bc, the tidying bit seems like it was also a deviation in her routine.

That said, thanks in advance for providing whatever you're comfortable with and/or at liberty to disclose!​

Whew! Okay, that was long winded!

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Thank you so much shadowraiths for this post. Regarding the sexual component, suffice it to say that it was visually obvious by observing the crime scene. AG never mentioned visiting any websites other than those you've mentioned. Finally, regarding the tidying, AG never gave me the slightest impression that it was for any other reason than simply recognizing she was getting older and wanting to purge some of her things. I believe I've mentioned before that in her last year, AG and I talked a few times about what would happen after she was gone.

Anyways, I really appreciate your post and the link to the blog. It's always wonderful to read some more about AG's life.

Cheers,
-P

Did AG have a Living Will, Powers of Attorney for Personal Care and Property and if so, who was the beneficiary, since she had no known next of kin. Also, has it ever been reported what her net worth was.

Has LE indicated what transactions took place through her bank accounts during the Christmas season.

Who did she buy for, where did she spend Christmas Day.

Since she was not feeling well during the Christmas season, have any toxicology results been reported.

What was her last known location while away from her home.

imo -- would be helpful to know.

roseofsharon said:

Did AG have a Living Will, Powers of Attorney for Personal Care and Property and if so, who was the beneficiary, since she had no known next of kin. Also, has it ever been reported what her net worth was.

Has LE indicated what transactions took place through her bank accounts during the Christmas season.

Who did she buy for, where did she spend Christmas Day.

Since she was not feeling well during the Christmas season, have any toxicology results been reported.

What was her last known location while away from her home.

imo -- would be helpful to know.

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I don't have too many details about all that stuff... AG's estate was settled within a week or two. LV was the executor and sole beneficiary and (as I understand from LV) the value of the estate was approx $500k.

I spoke to AG on Christmas Day and she stayed home all day. When she was sick, AG didn't go ANYWHERE. She would stay bundled up and hardly get out of bed and in fact it was a huge pet peeve of hers when people would go out and spread germs when they were sick. Incidentally that was another of her intense interests.... Finding the source of a particular bug. If I was ever sick, she would insist I stay home (and far away from her) but the first order of business on our reconvening would be to retrace my steps in intricate detail for the 48 hours preceding my illness.

All that leads me to thinking that she likely didn't leave home at all in the last week of her life but I can't be certain . The inability to retrace her routine in her last week is one thing that has really troubled me.

kinsmapj said:

I don't have too many details about all that stuff... AG's estate was settled within a week or two. LV was the executor and sole beneficiary and (as I understand from LV) the value of the estate was approx $500k.

I spoke to AG on Christmas Day and she stayed home all day. When she was sick, AG didn't go ANYWHERE. She would stay bundled up and hardly get out of bed and in fact it was a huge pet peeve of hers when people would go out and spread germs when they were sick. Incidentally that was another of her intense interests.... Finding the source of a particular bug. If I was ever sick, she would insist I stay home (and far away from her) but the first order of business on our reconvening would be to retrace my steps in intricate detail for the 48 hours preceding my illness.

All that leads me to thinking that she likely didn't leave home at all in the last week of her life but I can't be certain . The inability to retrace her routine in her last week is one thing that has really troubled me.

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This is very interesting -- thank you!

Thanks very much for all your responses PK ... i hope we don't tire you out. You've certainly been able to provide more insight into AG's personality and lifestyle, and we appreciate all we can get.

A few things you've mentioned have raised some more questions and comments (did ya have any doubt? LOL)

You indicate that you received the Amazing Grace link from AG when you awoke the morning of the 27th. This is the first we've heard that the link was sent to anyone other than LF on the 27th (actually, i seem to recall that it was sent to LF the night of the 27th, but someone else might correct me on that, or maybe we can find our original resource for that info).

I've always been taken aback as to how rapidly AG's estate was settled. Maybe there is a difference between what the layperson interprets as "settled" and what lawyers might interpret. Given LV was the executrix and sole beneficiary, there is at least documentation that needs to be filed with the courts regarding a transfer from LV as executrix to LV in her personal capacity as beneficiary. Grasping at straws here, but do you by chance know when AG's Will was dated, and who the witnesses were?

You've provided some very interesting insight into AG and illnesses, so i'm thinking out loud here, not expecting any answers. Just bringing some of our old timeline questions to the fore:

AG was apparently too ill for company when you spoke with her on the 25th ... but she was loathe to go anywhere when she was ill. However, she apparently went to LV's on the 26th, but was home ill on the 27th when LV brought soup. She was obviously ill enough on the 27th that she cancelled her coffee date for the 29th. In other words, she would have been too ill and concerned about spreading germs on the 25th, but oddly, not on the 26th when she went to LV's or on the 27th when she allowed LV to visit), but on the 27th, felt she would still be too ill to go out and possibly spread germs on the 29th, but hadn't cancelled with you for the 30th.

Something we've pondered in past threads .. when you spoke with AG on the 25th, did you reschedule for the 30th in that phone call or was there a subsequent phone call?

Also, do you have any idea the number of peeps who were at LV's on Boxing Day ?

Without using names (it's agains TOS), do you know who bought AG's house?

Glad you are still hanging in here with us at WS ... we are like a bunch of barracudas at times, but we are thankful for any and all tidbits you have been able to provide.

Thanks to PK for the info you have given. It's helping me (us?) see into the life of AG much better. Here are my 'thoughts out loud' about what I've learned about AG from our recent discussions here:

1. I perfectly understand why a person (especially a woman) would let only select people into her home. It seems that women have an unreasonable expectation from society to have a 'Martha Stewart Living' home. That is, PERFECT! Magazine perfect! Or else - women face judgements from others.

2. I understand the notion of not spreading germs to others and expecting the same responsibility from others. PERHAPS AG knew that LV had received a flu/H1N1 shot and was reasonably safe from germs during the Christmas season.

QUESTION: (For PK - sorry, cannot resist!): Many of us here think that AG, SV and SL were the victims of ONE person. What do you think? Or, did LE give you any indication that they think there could be a link? IE: did LE ask you where you were during the period of time when SV and SL were attacked/killed? Your thoughts would be helpful as we are very concerned about this issue. Thanks in advance!

sillybilly said:

...
AG was apparently too ill for company when you spoke with her on the 25th ... but she was loathe to go anywhere when she was ill. However, she apparently went to LV's on the 26th, but was home ill on the 27th when LV brought soup. She was obviously ill enough on the 27th that she cancelled her coffee date for the 29th. In other words, she would have been too ill and concerned about spreading germs on the 25th, but oddly, not on the 26th when she went to LV's or on the 27th when she allowed LV to visit), but on the 27th, felt she would still be too ill to go out and possibly spread germs on the 29th, but hadn't cancelled with you for the 30th.
...

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... we've mentioned here, in previous posts, that she might have been expecting someone that night, since the dogs were not out with her (etc.)... but being that ill and not wanting to spread the germs doesn't give me the impression that she would have had someone over that night. Then again, the events of the last few days of her life don't seem to match what we've learned about her lately either... I dunno...

Again PK, big THANKS for all the info and insight. It is helping us get to know Audrey better; she certainly was a great person to have known and be around. It's so unfair she had such a horrible end :`(

Just wanted to add a couple of links, in case you don't know what SV and SL stand for. Actually we are allowed to spell their names in full, since they are both victims, and their cases have been in the news.

SV -- Sonia Varaschin - 42, Orangeville, missing 29 Aug 2010 (Found Deceased a week later) - Thread #1 ( link )
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SL -- Shelley Loder - 44, Mono, attacked Dec 09, 2010 - she doesn't have a thread of her own; she is included in Sonia's thread #2 ( link )

Thank you, PK for responding to our questions!

And thank you Hazel for posting the links to the other murders.

bodhi93 said:

snipped for brevity...

... we've mentioned here, in previous posts, that she might have been expecting someone that night, since the dogs were not out with her (etc.)... but being that ill and not wanting to spread the germs doesn't give me the impression that she would have had someone over that night. Then again, the events of the last few days of her life don't seem to match what we've learned about her lately either... I dunno...

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I really do not think that AG was expecting anyone that horrible night. I believe she was ambushed in some way - caught whilst outside for a smoke or lured by someone dressed as a police officer, etc. I do believe that if someone contacted her with a story saying that her friend LV was in trouble, AG might have answered the door to that person and then was ambushed.

So many questions........