AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #15

That quote from the neighbor could be the source of local rumors...JMO

Taminator said:

I'm not strapped down to one theory, either. If the drug cartel theory turns out to be true, I'll meet all my fellow Tucsonans here on WS somewhere and you can all throw rotten eggs at me and chant "Told you so". Deal?

I'm not trying to come across as disrespectful of anyone's opinion. I will say that ever since the Somer Thompson case, and seeing all the bashing of her mom, Diena, I've tried to view the parents of missing children as victims. I've tried to believe that there is no set way of how anyone "should" act or react.

I don't know. I'm trying to keep faith that these people have no idea what happened to Isa.

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I never understood the suspicion about Diena given the facts as known and given how LE was treating her. Similarly, I didn't understand why Ed Smart was given so much grief given the known facts and LE reaction. As with many other cases where the parents were suspected online but treated by all accounts as victims by LE.

While I look at the known facts in these cases, I tend to follow LE's lead while also watching how LE conducts the investigation. In the ones I listed above and in this one, LE seems to be open to all avenues. They don't seem to have 'tunnel vision' (I term I tend to loathe, as it is brought up in some cases MONTHS after LE exhausts multiple channels to focus on one path). And in this case, LE, in recent days, despite the multiple paths they have exhaustively looked into...seem to be putting pressure on SC. That, coupled with his very odd 911 call, leads me to believe they suspect he played a direct part in whatever happened to Isabel.

However, it could be that the 911 call and the CPS/no contact stuff are both connected to a 'habit' that has nothing to do with Isabel and that other 'clues' by LE (the searches in the wash right by the baseball field) have to do with things unrelated to SC.

But I follow LE, and despite their 'don't take this to be related' protestations in regards to the CPS deal, their actions (releasing the 911 calls right after, the search in the wash) tell me something different.

My opinion could change tomorrow, depending on what LE does. All of this is simply that, my opinion, and I continue to hope in this case that LE is competent and doing a good job for Isabel...and despite my own opinions, I am always interested in what others have to say, as it makes me think and question and reason, which is a good thing.

LisaB said:

I think that he thought the people he needed to worry about were in custody awaiting trial. MOO (FnF)

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...ohhh...ok.

PAXIMUS said:

I dont want to throw rotten eggs at you but I might make you buy me a beer.

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Well that I can do........




.....during Happy Hour

Lava said:

Unless LE doesn't know of any demands - they may have been made before LE even got involved (IMO).

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True, but why on earth get LE involved then? OR, why not call LE and tell them about the demands and work quietly with them instead of apparently lying about the circumstances? Why act as though you had no idea where your daughter is when a demand has been made by a specific person or group of people? I just can't see the logic in that. I am totally open to the idea that Isabel was kidnapped because of something the parents or a parent was involved in, but the circumstances of what happened after just don't jibe with how I'd expect a parent in that situation to act.

IMO

As always, my opinion can change upon further facts or actions by parents or LE.

Taminator said:

Well that I can do........




.....during Happy Hour

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Ill go easy on you, 5 cent beers at the Bum Steer.

So the first 911 call on Isabel's behalf was made by a stranger ? Someone in a store that SC Jr. went in ? I wonder if that 911 call will also be released ?

JMO

rosiebean said:

True, but why on earth get LE involved then? OR, why not call LE and tell them about the demands and work quietly with them instead of apparently lying about the circumstances? Why act as though you had no idea where your daughter is when a demand has been made by a specific person or group of people? I just can't see the logic in that. I am totally open to the idea that Isabel was kidnapped because of something the parents or a parent was involved in, but the circumstances of what happened after just don't jibe with how I'd expect a parent in that situation to act.

IMO

As always, my opinion can change upon further facts or actions by parents or LE.

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In the theory, among many others, where LE wouldn't know about the demands, SC would have agreed, or been forced to agree to hand over Isabel as collateral until something was accomplished (whatever the kidnappers wanted). Once what needed to be done was done Isabel would be dropped off somewhere random (gas station, etc). SC knew, but no one else knew. So SC had to call LE - to have a reason why Isabel was not there. He would try as best he could to make it look like a random kidnapping. (IMO)

Thank you for this gitana

Yes, Cole Puffinberger. But he was taken at gun point in front of the family who were involved in drugs -both use and at least with grandpa, trafficking. That family has NOTHING in common with the Celis family.

Further, this article indicates that the kidnapping charges were dropped mid-trial after the defense presented evidence that the kidnapping was staged by Cole's mom and grandmother as a way of flushing out his grandfather. Neither mom or grandma have been charged.

Cole was gone for 4 days. He was released unharmed and knew at least one of the people who took him.

http://www.lvrj.com/news/all-kidnapp...116344829.html

http://www.lvrj.com/news/defense-acc...114669284.html

That is the only case in the United States of an alleged cartel kidnapping of an American child.

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I've not had time to do anything more than pop in for an update all afternoon/evening but found the above case to in no way be even remotely similar.. so, I appreciate your above post perfectly pointing out the facts of Coles case so that any who are not familiar with it now have the resources that detail those facts that IMO clearly aren't even remotely similar to what is known presently about this case of Isabel's abduction.. jmo tho..

My theory de jour is a pervy guy who lurked in the back yard until all went to sleep. Then he lured Isa out her window using her little white dog. It's someone who knows the family either from school, church, ball games or lives nearby. LE searches the wash again looking for evidence. I think the family knows him and probably think he's a okay person.

Many threads ago a poster had a profile for someone like this. Was it - 30 something, lives alone, lower level income. Anyone remember that post? TIA

MOO posting theory only, no links to back it up.

LisaB said:

Nancy Grace said on her show that "there are reports out there" but nobody had stated it prior to her, and nobody has stepped up to say they were the source of the information NG relayed. So I guess that makes it a rumor?

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HELL Yes! I have very little respect for NG and her "bombshells". She is the commentator that cries wolf!

Lava said:

In the theory, among many others, where LE wouldn't know about the demands, SC would have agreed, or been forced to agree to hand over Isabel as collateral until something was accomplished (whatever the kidnappers wanted). Once what needed to be done was done Isabel would be dropped off somewhere random (gas station, etc). SC knew, but no one else knew. So SC had to call LE - to have a reason why Isabel was not there. He would try as best he could to make it look like a random kidnapping. (IMO)

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Tantalizing...

jennapuppy said:

I think every case ends up with its own unusual theories. On the Lisa Irwin case, it was about the Insane Clown Posse, and whether or not Juggalos would kidnap a baby.:what:

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:floorlaugh: I remember that! There is always some unusual info that catches my sleuther mind's attention.

Shelby2 said:

I agree, I am concerned about the CPS action. I have seen some posters say that it must be something very serious, and other posters have said it does not necessarily have to be very serious.
The no-contact order is for 90 days! Unless they decide to challenge it.
It seems to be an extreme measure to me.

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Is there a link that the CPS order is for 90 days? I have only seen people state that in cases they knew or in their states they are for 90 days. This is where I get frustrated. Someone shares a clearly stated opinion or says this my knowledge in my case or state....and someone turns it to fact....

liz b. said:

So the first 911 call on Isabel's behalf was made by a stranger ? Someone in a store that SC Jr. went in ? I wonder if that 911 call will also be released ?

JMO

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It was released. First part of the tape ..

http://www.kgun9.com/news/local/151452855.html

Lava said:

In the theory, among many others, where LE wouldn't know about the demands, SC would have agreed, or been forced to agree to hand over Isabel as collateral until something was accomplished (whatever the kidnappers wanted). Once what needed to be done was done Isabel would be dropped off somewhere random (gas station, etc). SC knew, but no one else knew. So SC had to call LE - to have a reason why Isabel was not there. He would try as best he could to make it look like a random kidnapping. (IMO)

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I quoted the wrong post. oops. Ditto!

johnQpublic said:

Well.. The Item in the Towel or Blanket at the Re-Visit of the home... It could NOT have been anything of evidencial value because it is not in a bag and the detective is not wearing a glove. It's possible it is just a mock item IE a prop blanket or towel that investigators wanted each family member to stage how it was placed in the room OR its just a camera or something simple that she keeps wrapped in a towel instead of a camera bag to be discrete... I really don't think its a actual peice of evidence though due to the way it is being handled.

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I agree. And whatever is wrapped in the towel could not be used as evidence anymore either, just because it left the home in the towel and not in a bag, and labelled.

ynotdivein said:

Frayed, AFAI can tell, the cartel rumor comes from a neighbor whose speculations/reports of neighborhood gossip were included in at least one MSM report.

That rumor/gossip is ok to discuss in context but posters should not run wild with the assumption that it is true. (OK, no running wild in general. :nono: )

Still catching up on the towel v blanket issue...

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Can we run wild with the neighbor isn't at all interested in her own safety? Seriously, who would make these statements to media about rumors of cartels? Is it that "fun" to be on tv in such a scary case ?

katydid23 said:

I agree. And whatever is wrapped in the towel could not be used as evidence anymore either, just because it left the home in the towel and not in a bag, and labelled.

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Unless it was bagged and labeled and then wrapped in a towel :wink:

PAXIMUS said:

And yet SC's friend on NG last night said Becky and the kids are outraged that he was denied contact with the kids, that doesnt sound like he was abusing anyone.

The following is: Rumor, a suggestion, not a fact but a hunch, not necessarily true but potentially possible, it is speculative and not based on anything other than a gut feeling and a personal belief:

Could he have been removed because of some sort of threats or something?

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Cmon, we know what you do for a living. CPS would not get involved based on threats to him - it wouldn't stand up in court (and if the paperwork is not signed for voluntary then there would be an emergency order at the local court house.)

You're an excitable little beast Pax lol