NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #1

rosemadderlake · Mar 21, 2013

Odyssey said:
bbm

Especially since it was stated that she "ran from the car".

You don't run from a car if you're angry, you run if you're scared.
JMO

Or, storm off if you are angry? She fought with her father and fiancé we are told.. --Could very well be angry and scared; or, getting out of dodge, "I am mad as hell and not going to take it anymore", or fleeing for her life. Fleeing for her life would have gotten someone's attention, I would think...

She must have been in a heightened emotional state. Was she practical? Was she hysterical? Did she express her emotions in public? Or, clam up in stormy silence? In not speaking to her father I would guess she is experienced at containing her emotions... --The family legend as GBMG observed...

Would she have other friends that were objective allies? Did she reach out to them? --It takes a half an hour to travel the length of Staten Island.

GoingByMyGut · Mar 21, 2013

Dushi said:
More info to add to what we know

From PR

Sylvia was not employed
Sylvia was not in school at this time

Wait -- are you sure we know these things? I remember speculating about it when discussing whether she'd have the cash to disappear, BUT what if she babysat? Taught piano to young children? Tutored? Even waitressed (which was far less regulated by the IRS in those days). There are so many off-the-books things she could have done ...

Also, I believe the school info is in dispute as well. Two different Wagner records on Classmates, one for graduation year '74 and another for '75. If that FB page is right about her HS class being '71, then she was a senior at WC when she disappeared, which is also how the engagement notice describes her (I am guessing it was published in the late spring or summer of 1974, but JMO.

GoingByMyGut · Mar 21, 2013

Jmoose said:
I am not sure how to link the info-I will try, though. In any event, several sources say that he was indeed paroled in Oct of 1974, but not actually released until June of 1975. I am not sure if it matters, except that it seems like killers jump right back into it when they're out, and Sylvia's disappearance was less than 3 months after he got out. Also, he is suspected in at least one other murder of a person that they haven't found. His mother lived on Clove Ave., not far at all from College Ave, where the fiance's family home was-I am not convinced that she actually jumped out of the car at the K-Mart. His usual victims were dark haired women, but who's to say he wouldn't deviate? I am not stuck on this notion, though-my mind is certainly open to different scenarios, including death at the hands of her BF/F.

Thanks, JMoose. I think I was momentarily confused, thinking SL disappeared in 74, which would have made a difference. Oops. Sorry.

Well, I see your point about hair color and the location of the mother's house. Sylvia's hair was an in-between color, strawberry blonde (in the right light, maybe it looked like dirty-blonde/light brunette?). Also, I would expect him to trawl in areas like the K-Mart Plaza. I noticed a few of his killings in NJ involved leaving bodies at Burger Kings -- not sure if he was a Whopper fan, or if maybe he viewed employees leaving late at night as potential victims. Yes, it's largely the MO that's in conflict though.

Jmoose · Mar 21, 2013

Odyssey said:
bbm

Especially since it was stated that she "ran from the car".

You don't run from a car if you're angry, you run if you're scared.
JMO

Fiance's words were that she ran from the car?

Jmoose · Mar 21, 2013

epiphany said:
It's just me...I'm not ready to dismiss that someone else did not see her later until the 2010 NamUs report reflects that she was last seen on the 6th.

What/who would be the likely source of NamUs's seemingly updated information about when she was last seen?

Jmoose · Mar 21, 2013

GoingByMyGut said:
Thanks, JMoose. I think I was momentarily confused, thinking SL disappeared in 74, which would have made a difference. Oops. Sorry.

Well, I see your point about hair color and the location of the mother's house. Sylvia's hair was an in-between color, strawberry blonde (in the right light, maybe it looked like dirty-blonde/light brunette?). Also, I would expect him to trawl in areas like the K-Mart Plaza. I noticed a few of his killings in NJ involved leaving bodies at Burger Kings -- not sure if he was a Whopper fan, or if maybe he viewed employees leaving late at night as potential victims. Yes, it's largely the MO that's in conflict though.

I was intrigued by the proximity, and by the time frame. Stranger things have certainly happened than being upset in the wrong place at the wrong time. Right now, for me, everything is still on the table.

GoingByMyGut · Mar 21, 2013

epiphany said:
Respectfully BBM

Hi Indica, just using your post as a jumping-off point.

Even though a private investigator may have been hired, at the moment we have no verified source, nor local insider information to confirm when this may have occurred, and what was learned by any PI.

Re friends living in dorm rooms...I wonder whether or not Wagner College had off-campus apartment buildings used as dorms in 1975, situated on or near Grymes Hill, in addition to traditional on-campus dorms.

I would think LE would have spoken with these friends when Sylvia disappeared.

I would also think that the photo below, used on the Missing Person Poster, would have been one of the most recent photos of Sylvia available prior to her disappearance. It appears to be a candid shot, possibly taken outside in the evening. Note dress, lighting, etc.

And again, on Missing Person Poster available below: Missing Sunday, September 7, 1975 (not Saturday, Sept. 6, 1975).

I am stuck on this. Was information learned that Sylvia was last seen by someone, and hours later than originally thought? Is this newly released information, recently discovered information or simply an error that ought to be corrected?

PDF of image: https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/poster/7574

BBM: This is a NAMEUS poster though. We don't actually know when it was made. It could be a current poster, made for use by anyone today who wants to publicize her long-unsolved disappearance? They would have based the poster on their own information, and theirs is the site that lists her "last seen" on 9/7, right? I do not see anything that tells us there were posters made in 1975. Do you?

Also, none of these "recent" photos looks like yearbook quality to me. I am still not sure she graduated from Wagner. If her mother went looking there, to me that seems to suggest she was still enrolled there. Friends her age would have graduated with her. I do not see this as verified.

GoingByMyGut · Mar 21, 2013

Dushi said:
I am trying to make sense out of "there was an argument and she threw her glasses" per PR

Is this a busy area, where it was supposed to take place?
Was it busy at 6pm on a Sat night?

Interesting point, Dushi. It made me go back and look at the PR again, and actually, that's not ON it. "Fight with boyfriend" is and "person described engaged, had fight with fiance." The bit about the glasses comes from the opening entry by "Richard" and I think we also saw it, with almost identical wording, on some of the public sites that encapsulate information about the missing.

Since Richard started the thread, can we assume that's verified info, Bessie?

Dushi · Mar 21, 2013

GoingByMyGut said:
Interesting point, Dushi. It made me go back and look at the PR again, and actually, that's not ON it. "Fight with boyfriend" is and "person described engaged, had fight with fiance." The bit about the glasses comes from the opening entry by "Richard" and I think we also saw it, with almost identical wording, on some of the public sites that encapsulate information about the missing.

Since Richard started the thread, can we assume that's verified info, Bessie?

I believe it is in the New York missing thing also
I read it someplace other than here

Dushi · Mar 21, 2013

Oh and right..

PR says glasses LEFT in car

GoingByMyGut · Mar 21, 2013

Odyssey said:
bbm

Especially since it was stated that she "ran from the car".

You don't run from a car if you're angry, you run if you're scared.
JMO

I'm not sure. I think under the right circumstances, you could run if you were mad. Like, you're frustrated with something your BF is doing and he won't back off and makes like he's going to follow you or is badgering you. You might run to communicate you really mean you want to be left alone. You might also run if you're upset ... as in "my fiance just broke up with me." Def. scared, too, I'm just trying to process the speculative thinking.

GoingByMyGut · Mar 21, 2013

epiphany said:
If she ran out of the car after a big argument with her fiance, she may have sought out a girlfriend/s...at a dorm, at an apartment, at a local place the GFs frequented. I would have done that, but I don't know what Sylvia would have typically done after such an argument with her fiance. Using the 6/6:30 PM hour last seen by BF, I certainly would not have headed back home (in this case, her parents' home) at that hour on a Saturday night.

This is really tricky bc we don't know her. The absence of information about friends is starting to make me think she could have been a loner ... but I keep pulling myself back from that. We don't know whether the absence of info on friends means she had none or not. But if she WAS a loner, and IF her father and she had an irrevocable rift, and IF her BF ended the engagement ... she could feel pretty alone. It's frustrating not to be able to paint even one of these areas definitively.

Dushi · Mar 21, 2013

For me, its not all that important that she threw them
he already said they argued, in PR

Whats interesting, is she left without them

GoingByMyGut · Mar 21, 2013

Jmoose said:
Fiance's words were that she ran from the car?

Yes, here you go. Post #1, says (BBM), "He returned stating that during an argument, she thew her glasses against the dashboard and ran from the car. Sylvia has not been seen since."

Dushi · Mar 21, 2013

She had a pool party with her girlfriends(unverified)

I don't know how close they were, but she had some, if above is fact

GoingByMyGut · Mar 21, 2013

Dushi said:
She had a pool party with her girlfriends(unverified)

I don't know how close they were, but she had some, if above is fact

Very good point! But also right: unverified. I completely forgot about that.

Dushi · Mar 21, 2013

site freezing

Is it me?

Saracen · Mar 21, 2013

GoingByMyGut said:
Very good point! But also right: unverified. I completely forgot about that.

its very hard to try and build up a social calander of someone from nearly 4 decades ago

GoingByMyGut · Mar 21, 2013

So, on the Charley Project page for SL, did anyone notice that there's two newspapers listed as sources? The Altoona Mirror, and The Bedford Gazette. Both are in PA -- what's up with that? The AM has no link to archives that I could see; and I could search the BG archives, but not access articles. Searching by Lwowski turned up 0 entries, but searching by "Staten Island" betw. 1972-76 turned up 7. I find this confusing, but haven't made any headway with it. What could the Charley Project find in these pages to base their "missing" post on? Was she born there (I am not sure whether the earlier discussion of her being born in Germany was verified or speculative)? Anyone with better skills than me (in other words, everyone) is invited to dig. :computer:

Jmoose · Mar 21, 2013

GoingByMyGut said:
So, on the Charley Project page for SL, did anyone notice that there's two newspapers listed as sources? The Altoona Mirror, and The Bedford Gazette. Both are in PA -- what's up with that? The AM has no link to archives that I could see; and I could search the BG archives, but not access articles. Searching by Lwowski turned up 0 entries, but searching by "Staten Island" betw. 1972-76 turned up 7. I find this confusing, but haven't made any headway with it. What could the Charley Project find in these pages to base their "missing" post on? Was she born there (I am not sure whether the earlier discussion of her being born in Germany was verified or speculative)? Anyone with better skills than me (in other words, everyone) is invited to dig. :computer:

Interesting-not just PA, but Western PA-that is weird

NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #1

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