NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #2

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MMQC - Did BF have a sister that Sylvia would have been close to, and also what kind of car did the BF drive.
 
skeet said:
MMQC - Did BF have a sister that Sylvia would have been close to, and also what kind of car did the BF drive.
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Sister? Hmmm. Don't think so. As for Car? Monti Carlo? Or the Pontiac version of the shape/size same car. It was white I think. Cars did not light my fire. I drove a Studabaker, a big brown square thing that looked like a checker cab. Got me where I wanted to go though!
 
Does anyone remember the date of the engagement announcement in the newspaper? Was it recently published before Sylvia disappeared? -And, had they ever broken off the engagement previously, and gotten back together?

Other than the location discrepancy, was the BF/F’s story consistent the night Sylvia disappeared? -I am supposing he was asked: ‘What was the argument about that caused my daughter, sister, and friend to throw her glasses and storm out of the car on the highway? As I recall, MMQC has said he was angry. Was he angry at her family’s house? –Are there any specific words, or phrases, or places, or other events or people mentioned that stand out from that night?

It was mentioned that the BF/F was rude, hostile, and not helpful after a few days, but how did he leave things that night? Any plan of action on his part?

Was there any communication between Sylvia’s and the BF/F’s parents after her disappearance?
 
rosemadderlake said:
Does anyone remember the date of the engagement announcement in the newspaper? Was it recently published before Sylvia disappeared? -And, had they ever broken off the engagement previously, and gotten back together?

Other than the location discrepancy, was the BF/F’s story consistent the night Sylvia disappeared? -I am supposing he was asked: ‘What was the argument about that caused my daughter, sister, and friend to throw her glasses and storm out of the car on the highway? As I recall, MMQC has said he was angry. Was he angry at her family’s house? –Are there any specific words, or phrases, or places, or other events or people mentioned that stand out from that night?

It was mentioned that the BF/F was rude, hostile, and not helpful after a few days, but how did he leave things that night? Any plan of action on his part?

Was there any communication between Sylvia’s and the BF/F’s parents after her disappearance?
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As for the GLASSES. I only learned about this on WS. As for questions? BF/F drove up in front of my house then asked me to go pick her up at bus on Rich. Ave. Then drove off. I don't recall him even going to the parents house that night. No time even to ask about fight he just drove off.

I don't recall the date of the Engagement Announcment in the newspaper. It was before graduation so it must have been spring of '75? Not really remembering it except the engagement party. No breakup that I know of.
 
MMQC said:
As for the GLASSES. I only learned about this on WS. As for questions? BF/F drove up in front of my house then asked me to go pick her up at bus on Rich. Ave. Then drove off. I don't recall him even going to the parents house that night. No time even to ask about fight he just drove off.

I don't recall the date of the Engagement Announcment in the newspaper. It was before graduation so it must have been spring of '75? Not really remembering it except the engagement party. No breakup that I know of.
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Can you remember where the engagement party was held and who paid for it?
 
I have to disappear for a while, my friends-sitting in vigil with my mother now.
 
skeet said:
Can you remember where the engagement party was held and who paid for it?
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I believe it was held at Ft. Wadworth and SL's family paid for it as it was held at the Fort.
 
For some reason I can’t quote from thread #1. I am quoting ASWDH here and replacing name with “BF/F” in the quote.

ASWDH stated on (post 758, thread #1) The night of the disappearance: “ …BF/F returned to the house approx. 10:30 stating that during an argument Sylvia had thrown her glasses against the dash board of the car and ran off.”

On the police report it says “Glasses left in car.”

What is mysterious to me is the BF/F states the glasses are thrown against the dashboard of the car and does not give them to Sylvia’s family that night -- because wouldn’t she need them when she returned home? --Especially if she cannot see without them?

Were the glasses ever returned to Sylvia’s family? If so, were they broken? --If they were not returned, then why? Or, did the BF/F refuse to give them back? -If so, why?

I don’t think the glasses are sitting in an evidence archive at the precinct, IMO. -But where are her eye glasses?
 
Dushi said:
And why didn't he show interest?
For the woman he was going to marry.

How do you just walk away from a situation like this?
I know everyone reacts differently to stresses in life, but , really???

I can't find an explanation that works for me

JMO
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bbm: wondering about this mysterious piece as well...

Was it cover up thinking “on the fly” that sounded quasi plausible that explained her glasses? Sending MMQC on a wild goose chase searching for Sylvia would add an extra layer. --The fact that Sylvia had a big incident with her father at the pool party a week or so preceding her disappearance could be an opportune “play into the hysterical woman” source material as well.

Was it a break-up and she threw the ring and left her glasses because she was crying? I can see where the BF/F is not going to share the break up piece right away. –But he keeps her glasses? It is in the aftermath when she doesn’t come home, and she really is missing that he still doesn’t share that they broke up and then his guilt turns to hostility with a sob story about how he was suckered..

imo....
 
MMQC said:
I believe it was held at Ft. Wadworth and SL's family paid for it as it was held at the Fort.
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MMQC - Do you recall if it was a big engagement party? --Over 50 people? Was it just both families and close friends, or did it include college, sorority, and band friends, as well?
 
rosemadderlake said:
MMQC - Do you recall if it was a big engagement party? --Over 50 people? Was it just both families and close friends, or did it include college, sorority, and band friends, as well?
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On a small scale. I don't think it was even close to 50 people. I think EL had all the gifts still in the house. She asked me what to do with them. I had no clue. Don't know what was eventually done with them. SL's room to my knowledge was still the same as when she left. Although I did get my music books back one day. EL must have been going through the room and noticed that my name was in the books.

Slowly I'm getting back to normal.....what ever normal is anymore, who knows?
 
MMQC said:
On a small scale. I don't think it was even close to 50 people. I think EL had all the gifts still in the house. She asked me what to do with them. I had no clue. Don't know what was eventually done with them. SL's room to my knowledge was still the same as when she left. Although I did get my music books back one day. EL must have been going through the room and noticed that my name was in the books.

Slowly I'm getting back to normal.....what ever normal is anymore, who knows?
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Hi MMQC, I'm wondering if the name Richard Biegenwald was ever mentioned in this case. My dad was stationed in New Jersey and we lived down at the shore at this time when she went missing. Two girls from our area were found buried in Biegenwald's mother's backyard in State Island. His m.o. was to pick up girls walking on the road after dark.
 
Dushi said:
IF LE looked in the car, I am thinking there was nothing to see.
Blood would require an explanation, wouldn't it??
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LE look in the car? I just spit out my coffee all over my laptop! ah! The LE on this case <modsnip>which is an in-shop term they use.
HYPOTHETICAL:

Final paragraph of a letter - coming soon to a theater near you..
It is apparent that evidence has been dismissed or simply unrecognized concerning this case, Ms Roncesvalles. Please be kind enough to refer me to an individual who can competently answer these questions and others. A 22 year &#8211;old college girl was killed. Wake up. It&#8217;s time to find answers and do what should have been done almost thirty years ago.

Respectfully yours,

Rational, Prudent and Logic
>>>>I've decided to write JOHN DOUGLAS. Douglas , like the mega-sleuths on this thread (Dushi as Captain), is a genius. He had been the first human to develop what we know as a "criminal profile." Due to his work, ability to move first, the FBI set-up a new division for him in Langley, albeit, seven stories below ground ( he tells tales of how he used to go to the library and study UNSUBS ( in-house slang for UNKNOWN SUBJECT/SUSPECT) and cases, admitting that there was sun in the library. This is back in the late 70's and early 80's. Douglas' unit was called the FBI's Behavioral Science Unit - and R. Ressler became his right hand man. Douglas travelled throughout the states vistoing convicted killers - all of the big names - in order to complete what I will call his "lab work." He has been able to perform magic like predictions of a killer's features - e.g.: he is neat, he is impotent, he has lost his hair. The one drawback I see - from reading his book "MindHunter" and now "Law and Disorder" is that these killers always get their start with explicit, pyscho sexual disorders. It just seems impossible that perverted men automatically receive a 75% chance of being a murdering sob. I guess he;s right, but I like to think that you can;t rule out people just because they do not have a record. Just because you have not been in jail does not eman you can't kill someone - ever ( cough - cough - cough, a'hem, cough).
Douglas is still kicking and it is because of his work that we have all those badly scripted crime shows like "Criminal INtent" and other badly scripted, poorly acted shows ( no offense, I do like 48 hours and dateline (smile).

I will be writing him and, applying the vigor seen in the aforementioned hypothetical, my goal will be to compel him... to help us. I am sure he receives hundred if letters, asking for his help. Well, guess what?

He's about to get mine. oh!

I hope everyone is doing well (MMOQ, Skeet, RoseMadder, GoingBMGut, Sancera (sp), keet, and of course my pal J-Mo. Sorry I have been away. The sun flare froma few days ago hit earth today - it was 80 in the empire state.

Isn't is bizarre how the national media has no interest in covering the nasty case of the re-trial of George Thomas? This is a case taking place in TN ( yes, most of the witnesses have a no-nonsense, sharp accent (smile) and it involves a real dark and sad series of events. I suggest you not look it up because it just ... well, the victims were victimized and they got a raw deal.

Finally [and I will shut my trap ( wink),] Jody arias states that- for her - " death is the ultimate freedom." My theory is that she hopes the jury hears this - and applies their concentrated hatred toward giving her life in prison in order to punish, and delay her attainment of freedom. If this happens, they will have fallen into her wolf-trap. The cold b&t$h was literally laughing today while ta's little bro and sis gave their statements... she covered her face - it's like - oh my god - she is out of her fudging mind!!! She needs the electric chair - i think they should get rid of the chair anmd just have them stand - strapped in - then flip the switch --- why give them a seat - to make them comfortable?? Anyway.....

Thanks so much... everyone for giving your time... words cannot express...

Kindest,

The <.G>
 
Jacie Estes said:
Hi MMQC, I'm wondering if the name Richard Biegenwald was ever mentioned in this case. My dad was stationed in New Jersey and we lived down at the shore at this time when she went missing. Two girls from our area were found buried in Biegenwald's mother's backyard in State Island. His m.o. was to pick up girls walking on the road after dark.
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IIRC: I think he was mentioned in thread #1.

Question: Is a &#8220;parole approval&#8221; date the same as a release from prison date? It is possible he could have been on Staten Island with his mother in Sept. 1975?

"On March 12, 1974, Biegenwald was denied parole. Then, on Oct. 12, 1974, his parole was approved, effective June 12, 1975."

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb...Misc/Crime/Biegenwald/Biegenwald_Murders.html
 
rosemadderlake said:
IIRC: I think he was mentioned in thread #1.

Question: Is a “parole approval” date the same as a release from prison date? It is possible he could have been on Staten Island with his mother in Sept. 1975?

"On March 12, 1974, Biegenwald was denied parole. Then, on Oct. 12, 1974, his parole was approved, effective June 12, 1975."

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb...Misc/Crime/Biegenwald/Biegenwald_Murders.html
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Hi, Rose -- You are right. I remember going back and forth with JMoose over these dates in thread 1 bc I got confused by them too. The "approval" date is not the same as the "release" date, but I believe the "effective" date is. So yes, it seems he would have been out of prison by mid-June 1975, doing who knows what. I think both he and Andre Rand could have been roaming/stalking Staten Island at the time SI disappeared. The only thing that troubles me about Biegenwald is that the bodies of his victims tended to be found; he was not as careful about disposal as Rand, whose victims truly "disappeared."
 
MMQC said:
On a small scale. I don't think it was even close to 50 people. I think EL had all the gifts still in the house. She asked me what to do with them. I had no clue. Don't know what was eventually done with them. SL's room to my knowledge was still the same as when she left. Although I did get my music books back one day. EL must have been going through the room and noticed that my name was in the books.

Slowly I'm getting back to normal.....what ever normal is anymore, who knows?
Click to expand...

Hi, MMQC. Music books? Did you play an instrument too? Apologies if you have already told us this ...
 
GoingByMyGut said:
Hi, Rose -- You are right. I remember going back and forth with JMoose over these dates in thread 1 bc I got confused by them too. The "approval" date is not the same as the "release" date, but I believe the "effective" date is. So yes, it seems he would have been out of prison by mid-June 1975, doing who knows what. I think both he and Andre Rand could have been roaming/stalking Staten Island at the time SI disappeared. The only thing that troubles me about Biegenwald is that the bodies of his victims tended to be found; he was not as careful about disposal as Rand, whose victims truly "disappeared."
Click to expand...
It was said that the true total of the Biegenwald victim count would never be known. A mother of one of the victims was taken to an evidence room to identify her daughter's jewelry. There was items placed out on several tables. The mother was astonished by the large amount of jewelry; when the mother asked how many victims were there she was told 'we may never know'. This was in the 80s; where is the evidence from then and have the police investigating this case seen that jewelry to compare? edit to add: One of the victims was from our neighborhood in NJ; unfortunately, her mom has passed so I can't contact her to find out what police department.
 
Jacie Estes said:
It was said that the true total of the Biegenwald victim count would never be known. A mother of one of the victims was taken to an evidence room to identify her daughter's jewelry. There was items placed out on several tables. The mother was astonished by the large amount of jewelry; when the mother asked how many victims were there she was told 'we may never know'. This was in the 80s; where is the evidence from then and have the police investigating this case seen that jewelry to compare? edit to add: One of the victims was from our neighborhood in NJ; unfortunately, her mom has passed so I can't contact her to find out what police department.
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bbm: Perhaps the NY Cold Case Squad would be able to answer this question if the possibility has not been reviewed with the family by LE.
 
Jacie Estes said:
It was said that the true total of the Biegenwald victim count would never be known. A mother of one of the victims was taken to an evidence room to identify her daughter's jewelry. There was items placed out on several tables. The mother was astonished by the large amount of jewelry; when the mother asked how many victims were there she was told 'we may never know'. This was in the 80s; where is the evidence from then and have the police investigating this case seen that jewelry to compare? edit to add: One of the victims was from our neighborhood in NJ; unfortunately, her mom has passed so I can't contact her to find out what police department.
Click to expand...

Interesting, Jacie. I just started reading about Biegenwald on MurderPedia. According to one of the articles on the site, his mother Sally Biegenwald's home was in the Charleston section of Staten Island, which (according to Google Maps) is a tiny bit north and west of where SL lived (Charleston is actually just north of 440 after coming onto the island from NJ). The MurderPedia articles say that, between the time Biegenwald got out of prison (which is stated as 1974) and 1977-80, he was on SI and started dating a 16-year-old girl who lived near his mother's house and who he would later marry. The girlfriend/future wife would have been much younger than him (he was 37 in 1977), and much younger than SL (who was 25 in 1975, right?), but according to Wikipedia, as a Charleston resident, she would have gone to SL's alma mater, Tottenville High School. They could all very well have crossed paths in 1975.

Biegenwald mystifies me. He sometimes, but not always, raped his victims, and articles suggest he killed some women bc they were in the way of robberies, which seems odd. He was called "the Jersey Shore Thrill Killer" bc so many of his victims came from there. I see 9-to-11 victims accounted for on MurderPedia.
 
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