NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #2

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I can't remember if I mentioned that piece of the puzzle.

MMQC: So it is uncertain whether LE knows about this piece of her past, or if they even have the name of the Navy BF. Would you consider sending his name in a pm to a core mega-sleuth? Perhaps this person can be contacted.

Wondering, oh yes, I am wondering who even knows about her disappearance and who knows who is still alive because it has been so long.

If this is too brash a request, I totally understand. --Just thought I'd put it out there.
 
I was thinking if we could narrow down the year of the Navy BF maybe we could google who enlisted in the navy around that time, maybe a name on a list would jog a memory? Hi Ho off to work I go, may not be home in time to listen to Trisha, hope you guys fill me in. :)
 
Are we actually going to be on next week (June 16th)? Or are we on tonight, too?

Bumping up Gajonka's post from yesterday as reply. Are you seeing something that conflicts with this?

WE are hoping for tomorrow night. Given the Seacat Case and the Zimmerman case - we'll be in back - and we are expecting only a few minutes - but Deerhunter is captivating - and it will be emotional, that is for certain.
 
Bumping up Gajonka's post from yesterday as reply. Are you seeing something that conflicts with this?

Check his most recent post-he said something near the top about the 16th-maybe my reading comprehension is on the fritz, though! (Lol)
 
Check Gajonka's post from 12:14am today-looks like next week? Or am I misunderstanding?
 
Can't say for sure about when but from a conversation we had I did mention it. It was OH SO HARD doing so. I felt like I had betrayed a confidence that I swore to keep. I still feel guilty about doing so. I'm no judge. We are judged by our maker. God gives us free will. We can choose what to do with our lives. What I choose now is to try to be a better person. Give of myself when I can and try to be a good example to others. Coming to a fork in the road in my life. Good or not so good are the signs in front of me and my turn signals are not on yet. OH MY, I'm rambling again! Sorry.

MMQC: My goodness, you are doing great! What choices were there in 1975 when you were trying to help her family? -And now? You have given a voice to your friend who is not here to speak for herself. Perhaps that is a gift and not a betrayal (even though it feels like it). Especially if it helps to unlock the mystery of what happened to her. And especially bring some peace to you in knowing you stood up for her.

Yes, indeedy, we are here to shake the trees!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Re this portion of Gajonka's late night post:
Rose Madder Lake asked a great question: In the aftermath of her disappearance, was there any contact between BF's parents and Sylvia's parents? (paraphrased from memory).

It appears, after some due dili, that all attempts to contact the parental units ( let's remember , at that age, parental involvement would be expected, or one would expect it to be normal and acceptable).... but all attempts to reach out and form some type of contact - communication - cooperation - obtain, perhaps some type of propensity to offer help.... all of it had been dismissed,,,, with radio silence being the prevailing object...the results of these efforts.
COLD!!!!!!!

I suppose if the parents only met as a consequence of the engagement, and the "disappearance" was looked at early on as a possible runaway by even SL's parents, this might have happened honestly/naturally/innocently. It wouldn't have had the urgency that it might have had without that. Also, if the BF/F believed SL left him and/or ran away, his parents may have wanted to help him put it behind him by not engaging with it. Who knows what the BF/F was telling them about her?

It seems to me that things did not look then as they did later and esp. now. Of course SL's parents were alarmed, and MMQC seems to have been alarmed, from the beginning, and yet there's this talk of when she returns. I'm just thinking that unless the BF/F's family knew something we don't, this could be seen as reasonable. Yes, of course, the opposite is also possible. I just resist judgment without the full picture. JMO.
 
Re this portion of Gajonka's late night post:


I suppose if the parents only met as a consequence of the engagement, and the "disappearance" was looked at early on as a possible runaway by even SL's parents, this might have happened honestly/naturally/innocently. It wouldn't have had the urgency that it might have had without that. Also, if the BF/F believed SL left him and/or ran away, his parents may have wanted to help him put it behind him by not engaging with it. Who knows what the BF/F was telling them about her?

It seems to me that things did not look then as they did later and esp. now. Of course SL's parents were alarmed, and MMQC seems to have been alarmed, from the beginning, and yet there's this talk of when she returns. I'm just thinking that unless the BF/F's family knew something we don't, this could be seen as reasonable. Yes, of course, the opposite is also possible. I just resist judgment without the full picture. JMO.

Really well said, GBMG. I get the impression that no one really knew the BF/F very well even though he and SL were engaged to be married and knew each other for almost two years.

bbm: The characterizations and feedback comes from the apparent "radio silence", and in the lack of actions (perceived lack of caring and compassion) after she disappeared. And, you pointed out in this post (bringing forward) perhaps the possible answer or a variation of why there was radio silence:

"That said, I do still think it's possible that SL had decided to break up with him, and that he was "suckered" bc he had made a very public display of his love for her via the ring and engagement party/announcement. (Thus prompting the rest of MMQC's statement, that "he had given her a very expensive ring and she takes off." -- could he have said "takes IT off"?) That's right up there with being left at the alter, IMO -- a kind of public humiliation."

And in the "no publicity" aspect was there something known that charted that course, or was there fear (something unknown or suspected) that silenced those who were searching for her?

So, a break up could have been true, or fictionalized to cover up. One would have to be a hell of an actor to pull off the latter, especially with the mother who was having a breakdown, allegedly....
 
MMQC: My goodness, you are doing great! What choices were there in 1975 when you were trying to help her family? -And now? You have given a voice to your friend who is not here to speak for herself. Perhaps that is a gift and not a betrayal (even though it feels like it). Especially if it helps to unlock the mystery of what happened to her. And especially bring some peace to you in knowing you stood up for her.

Yes, indeedy, we are here to shake the trees!!!!!!!!!!!

BBM: That's a good point, Rose. It's both a gift and a responsibility, I think.
 
Really well said, GBMG. I get the impression that no one really knew the BF/F very well even though he and SL were engaged to be married and knew each other for almost two years.

bbm: The characterizations and feedback comes from the apparent "radio silence", and in the lack of actions (perceived lack of caring and compassion) after she disappeared. And, you pointed out in this post (bringing forward) perhaps the possible answer or a variation of why there was radio silence:

"That said, I do still think it's possible that SL had decided to break up with him, and that he was "suckered" bc he had made a very public display of his love for her via the ring and engagement party/announcement. (Thus prompting the rest of MMQC's statement, that "he had given her a very expensive ring and she takes off." -- could he have said "takes IT off"?) That's right up there with being left at the alter, IMO -- a kind of public humiliation."

And in the "no publicity" aspect was there something known that charted that course, or was there fear (something unknown or suspected) that silenced those who were searching for her?

So, a break up could have been true, or fictionalized to cover up. One would have to be a hell of an actor to pull off the latter, especially with the mother who was having a breakdown, allegedly....

Thanks, Rose :)

BBM1: Yeah, that's odd, right? Although "no one" means "no one speaking to us on this thread." SL's brother may have been a little too young to know him well, and MMQC didn't socialize that much with SL and the BF/F by that time (didn't care to either, it seems). So we know him that much less. I totally agree: You have to read silence with care. There seems to be a group of SL's friends not represented here, and they may have known him better.

BBM2 (not counting your bolding of my quote from the earlier post): For me, it's hard to evaluate the "no publicity" request. Some people just naturally shrink from the public spotlight, others may be hyper-focused on reputation or even the appearance of impropriety. I think some older people may even see "public-ness" as contrary to traditional values of "femininity." Exposure. Nakedness -- the metaphorical confused with the actual.

To me "no publicity" speaks to EL's uncertainty about what had happened. Are you asking, did EL have reason to suspect SL may have run off voluntarily? It's possible. I'm just not sure it's necessary in order for her to be reluctant about publicity (or to be uncertain). I haven't been able to form an opinion on it.

BBM3: I'm not 100% sure I know what you mean here. I don't see that story being sold anywhere but here, do you (I'm thinking that to serve as a coverup it would have to be articulated)? Or are you thinking, as per my post, that he could have fictionalized it for his parents? Yes, def, but if he did not believe it himself, wouldn't it as a fictional story make him look bad bc it gives him an emotional motive? Not sure. Could someone who actually is guilty have (in my hypothetical "sucker" scenario) fictionalized it to the BF/F to keep him from questioning SL's disappearance? I suppose, but good gosh, that's so far afield from what's known I'm getting dizzy just thinking it!

So many things could have made the mother break down -- from not knowing (and fearing the worst) to knowing (and fearing the worst)! She could even have been conflicted by her son's (hypothetical) request that she not reach out to SL's family.
 
MMQC: I keep forgetting to ask you about this. We know almost nothing about how SL's father reacted to or was effected by SL's disappearance. Can you recall any details at all about his experience of this ordeal? For instance, the morning after the movies/fight, when you and EL went searching your local haunts for any sign of SL, did you see him at their home? How about during later visits? Did you ever seem him around the island? Thanks.
 
I think it's possible that, simply because BF/F told the family and MMQC that she bolted from the car, and they had no particular reason to doubt him, that this is why everyone expected Sylvia to return. I don't get the sense that any of them knew him very well, and so, true or not, they believed him (and, it may be true...)

It would really help to know what the couple fought about, I think. This might well help to explain what happened to her.
 
MMQC: So it is uncertain whether LE knows about this piece of her past, or if they even have the name of the Navy BF. Would you consider sending his name in a pm to a core mega-sleuth? Perhaps this person can be contacted.

Wondering, oh yes, I am wondering who even knows about her disappearance and who knows who is still alive because it has been so long.

If this is too brash a request, I totally understand. --Just thought I'd put it out there.

I would if I could, give out the name that is. All I remember is that he had red hair and drove a VW bug. It was someone that I really did not meet under good circumstances. The only time I saw him was the day they went to the clinic for the termination procedure. And That was from a distance. I wish I could have met him.
 
Re this portion of Gajonka's late night post:


I suppose if the parents only met as a consequence of the engagement, and the "disappearance" was looked at early on as a possible runaway by even SL's parents, this might have happened honestly/naturally/innocently. It wouldn't have had the urgency that it might have had without that. Also, if the BF/F believed SL left him and/or ran away, his parents may have wanted to help him put it behind him by not engaging with it. Who knows what the BF/F was telling them about her?

It seems to me that things did not look then as they did later and esp. now. Of course SL's parents were alarmed, and MMQC seems to have been alarmed, from the beginning, and yet there's this talk of when she returns. I'm just thinking that unless the BF/F's family knew something we don't, this could be seen as reasonable. Yes, of course, the opposite is also possible. I just resist judgment without the full picture. JMO.

Now we are both on the same page. I've always been of that same opinion.
 
MMQC: I keep forgetting to ask you about this. We know almost nothing about how SL's father reacted to or was effected by SL's disappearance. Can you recall any details at all about his experience of this ordeal? For instance, the morning after the movies/fight, when you and EL went searching your local haunts for any sign of SL, did you see him at their home? How about during later visits? Did you ever seem him around the island? Thanks.

He was quite saddened. I believe it bothered him greatly.
 
I think MMQC stated that SL's BF/F was not at the pool party with the Wagner group and MMQC.

Wondering whether there was any male in attendance (in hindsight) that showed an interest in SL or vice versa.
 
He was quite saddened. I believe it bothered him greatly.

I'm sure it did. Was he home the morning you and EL searched? Do you remember if he had to go to work? How did he behave? And when else did you see him?
 
I would if I could, give out the name that is. All I remember is that he had red hair and drove a VW bug. It was someone that I really did not meet under good circumstances. The only time I saw him was the day they went to the clinic for the termination procedure. And That was from a distance. I wish I could have met him.

BBM: Is that because you dropped her off, but he went in with her?

Do you remember, from what she told you, whether he was older/younger/same age as SL?

Do you remember the color of the VW?
 
That was in 72 right? Wonder if their relationship ended mutually because of this or was it because he was deported somewhere else because of the Navy? Wonder if he was a hometown boy or someone she met in college, maybe in music class?
 
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