2008.07.15 Caylee allegedly called Casey

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smart blonde said:
I will never forget the first time I heard Casey on tape, telling the story to the investigators, of Caylee calling her.

I remember that when she was asked what Caylee said to her, Casey pitched her voice very high and said, "Hi Mommy!".

The hair on the back of my neck stood on end. I got 'goose bumps'.

For some reason, that was one of the creepiest things I have ever heard. Just the way Casey said it.

At that very instant, the first time I heard that tape, I knew Casey was lying.

I had a definite feeling Caylee was dead, and that Casey knew it.
Click to expand...

Oooh, you're right. And she used that same fakey voice when her parents visited her in jail and she was acting all sarcastic about the food. Creeped me out totally!
 
Not that it makes much difference anyway, but did Casey say that Caylee called her on that Black-Jack phone that was 'missing'?
 
Interesting thread, tweety. :thumb:

Spinning this tale also launched Casey down the path of lemme-show-you-how-little-I-know-or-have-thought-about forensics supporting/debunking my alibi. She was desperate. A little forethought and Casey would've realized phone records would obliterate her credibility. I mean...even checking the call history on the phone in her hand was something LE could do on the spot. :doh:

Was called to my attention by another WS that Casey's statement also claims she last spoke w/ ZFG on the Thursday after Caylee's disappearance. Look past the date mix-up and you have the likely day of disposal = last time Casey was in contact w/ ZFG in her story.

I'm sure the psych angles have been explored that ZFG was a personality Casey created to carry the blame of her act. IOW...handing Caylee over to ZFG at the Sawgrass steps on Monday meant Caylee's death happened @ someone else's hand...in her mind. Self-protection mechanism. With this approach Casey had to mentally call on ZFG on Thursday to take on the ugly task of disposal IYKWIM.

Casey eventually (w/ Cindy's help IIRC) got to the point that she was claiming her silence/diversion was to protect the family from some sort of retaliation by the ZFG gang. Like maybe...:waitasec:...coming face:face w/ the reality of what had really happened? Ironic. This approach at least gives way to, "Hey - of course, I made it all up! I'm a martyr." :whistle:

...sorry for the OT. Yes, ITTA, examining Casey's actions in the early hours & days exposes her m.o. of action/reaction *ahem* storytelling.

And tossing in for good measure to go along w/ motivation for the 7/15 phone call claim, I look forward to the defense having to explain her IM w/ Iassen gushing 'bout how much she loves ZFG...well into July. So...a protect-you-from-ZFG only goes so far w/ a semi-reasonable person...gushing 'bout ZFG unprovoked tells a different tale 'bout the motive of the teller IMHO.
 
I think this LIE that Casey told about talking to Caylee on July 15th should be one of the main topics of the prosecutions opening statement, along with the plant experts timeline.

I would actually leave out the ZFG stuff, because those lies are inconsequential compared to this phone call lie. I hope the prosecutors make this trial as simple as possible and don't get tripped up trying to debunk ALL of the lies, and LOSE this very important LIE in the process!
 
I don't disagree, Tweety. IMHO, the most valuable element of "ZFG" is that it gives SA a solid launching point to build on. For example, ladies & gentlemen of the jury, we've established that Ms. Anthony lied. The defense told you that doesn't mean she's guilty of murder. Let's focus now on WHY she lied. What was her motive?

More to come... :)
 
cecybeans said:
Oooh, you're right. And she used that same fakey voice when her parents visited her in jail and she was acting all sarcastic about the food. Creeped me out totally!
Click to expand...

Another fakey voice time is when the detectives are absolutely GRILLING her about no job lying about everything etc and one berates her for "why did we waste this time coming up here" to Universal (not his exact words), and she pops out with a sing-songey little-girl macabre creepy voice "because I lied." I just knew that is a conditioned response to parental grilling when KC's been on the hot seat before. I sense an escalating response series, from low-level probing questions with low-level responses from KC, escalating to intense accusations from parentals and corresponding levels of response from KC. But I'll betcha the admission, "because I lied..." was the desired response which caused the parents to stop the inquisition, thereby getting KC off the hook. So in the police questioning when she did the rote "because I lied..." she expects to be let off the hook again. That's just the vibe I get.
 
smart blonde said:
Not that it makes much difference anyway, but did Casey say that Caylee called her on that Black-Jack phone that was 'missing'?
Click to expand...

I think KC told LE she could not call ZFG back because the phone number came over as private. If it were the Blackjack she would have known the number. JMO
 
tweety933 said:
Is it reasonable to doubt that THE person telling law enforcement that they spoke with the (now proven deceased) child, is not in fact the child's KILLER who is trying to delay the discovery of such a fact?

NO way do I expect jurors to think any differently than I do myself. This case is gonna hinge on what is REASONABLE to doubt.

I'm glad to hear that this testimony from Casey will most likely be put in front of the jury to hear.

Why else would you falsely say you heard from a missing child, if you hadn't?

I sincerely hope that Casey is convicted, whether or not the death penalty is imposed.
Click to expand...

:clap:
 
smart blonde said:
I will never forget the first time I heard Casey on tape, telling the story to the investigators, of Caylee calling her.

I remember that when she was asked what Caylee said to her, Casey pitched her voice very high and said, "Hi Mommy!".

The hair on the back of my neck stood on end. I got 'goose bumps'.

For some reason, that was one of the creepiest things I have ever heard. Just the way Casey said it.

At that very instant, the first time I heard that tape, I knew Casey was lying.

I had a definite feeling Caylee was dead, and that Casey knew it.
Click to expand...

BBM
She was also asked if Caylee was upset about not being able to see her mother...IIRC Casey said No...and then went off into a story involving Cindy.

IMO, a child that has not seen his/her parent in awhile would be sad, and would tell the parent to come get them and that they want to go home and not IMO launch into a happy story.
Curious as to why Casey brought up Caylee speaking of Shoes. Just curious.
 
BondJamesBond said:
Interesting thread, tweety. :thumb:

Spinning this tale also launched Casey down the path of lemme-show-you-how-little-I-know-or-have-thought-about forensics supporting/debunking my alibi. She was desperate. A little forethought and Casey would've realized phone records would obliterate her credibility. I mean...even checking the call history on the phone in her hand was something LE could do on the spot. :doh:

Was called to my attention by another WS that Casey's statement also claims she last spoke w/ ZFG on the Thursday after Caylee's disappearance. Look past the date mix-up and you have the likely day of disposal = last time Casey was in contact w/ ZFG in her story.

I'm sure the psych angles have been explored that ZFG was a personality Casey created to carry the blame of her act. IOW...handing Caylee over to ZFG at the Sawgrass steps on Monday meant Caylee's death happened @ someone else's hand...in her mind. Self-protection mechanism. With this approach Casey had to mentally call on ZFG on Thursday to take on the ugly task of disposal IYKWIM.

Casey eventually (w/ Cindy's help IIRC) got to the point that she was claiming her silence/diversion was to protect the family from some sort of retaliation by the ZFG gang. Like maybe...:waitasec:...coming face:face w/ the reality of what had really happened? Ironic. This approach at least gives way to, "Hey - of course, I made it all up! I'm a martyr." :whistle:

...sorry for the OT. Yes, ITTA, examining Casey's actions in the early hours & days exposes her m.o. of action/reaction *ahem* storytelling.

And tossing in for good measure to go along w/ motivation for the 7/15 phone call claim, I look forward to the defense having to explain her IM w/ Iassen gushing 'bout how much she loves ZFG...well into July. So...a protect-you-from-ZFG only goes so far w/ a semi-reasonable person...gushing 'bout ZFG unprovoked tells a different tale 'bout the motive of the teller IMHO.
Click to expand...

:clap::clap:
As usual, a great post Bond
 
smart blonde said:
I will never forget the first time I heard Casey on tape, telling the story to the investigators, of Caylee calling her.

I remember that when she was asked what Caylee said to her, Casey pitched her voice very high and said, "Hi Mommy!".

The hair on the back of my neck stood on end. I got 'goose bumps'.

For some reason, that was one of the creepiest things I have ever heard. Just the way Casey said it.

At that very instant, the first time I heard that tape, I knew Casey was lying.

I had a definite feeling Caylee was dead, and that Casey knew it.
Click to expand...

Me too.

What I found especially indicative of her lying about this call is that Casey didn't realize ahead of LE that if Caylee had truly been kidnapped and held away from the only home and family she'd ever known, she would not have sounded so perky and carefree, with nothing more than her shoes or books as foremost topic of conversation.

No "Mommy, I miss you and I want to come home." No "Mommy, when are you coming to get me?" No "Zani won't let me go home and I wanna go home right now."

Nothing that you would expect a child who had been taken from all that she'd ever known as security and stability in the family sense. Even if she'd been at the beach and at amusement parks and playing the white doggie and however many kids Zani's sister Sam has, she should still be asking why she isn't going home and why she's staying with Zani this long when she never did before and isn't able to see her grandparents or her mother or her own little dogs in her own home. She should sound somewhat concerned about this great upheaval of the only routine she'd ever lived in, definitely when combined with total deprivation of/removal from the only family she'd ever known.

Then when LE asks about that, Casey quick tries to cover for it (paraphrased): "Oh, it's because it was me. If it had been my mom, I know Caylee would have sounded like that."

Casey didn't realize that Caylee should have sounded a bit if not a lot worried about the change in schedule and residence that resulted from being kidnapped, and had to think on her feet to try and rationalize that one.

Nice try, Casey, but that was yet another epic fail. It only proves what an amateur liar she is. She had no idea what her daughter should or would sound like because that call never happened and she didn't think far enough ahead to have a lie at hand ready for that.

And as an added bite in the butt, she actually made it sound like Caylee is way more emotionally attached to Cindy than she is to Casey, which is probably true, but not to the extent that Caylee wouldn't have any negative reaction to offer her mother for this overlong overnight visit away from home. We know Caylee was acting clingy when around Casey's friends from interviews with them where they describe seeing Caylee staying close enough to Casey to be in sight if not within reach and crying for Mommy, which is typical and expected behavior from a toddler whose mother seems to neglect her while being in her company. Like how Casey films her daughter all the time but doesn't say a single word during the filming no matter how hard Caylee tries to engage her.

1 2 3 Cheese broke my heart...Caylee is practically knocking herself out to try and get Casey to answer her, then finally lets out a resigned sigh and turns her back on the cam. No toddler should ever have cause to sigh that heavily. I'm so sorry you felt so alone, baby angel. If only we could have known you then, we would have all been right there to color with you all day long.
 
smart blonde said:
I will never forget the first time I heard Casey on tape, telling the story to the investigators, of Caylee calling her.

I remember that when she was asked what Caylee said to her, Casey pitched her voice very high and said, "Hi Mommy!".

The hair on the back of my neck stood on end. I got 'goose bumps'.

For some reason, that was one of the creepiest things I have ever heard. Just the way Casey said it.

At that very instant, the first time I heard that tape, I knew Casey was lying.

I had a definite feeling Caylee was dead, and that Casey knew it.
Click to expand...

Yeah I agree. That voice was so fake and you could tell she was making this nonsense up as she went along. I assume she meant that Zenaida called and put Caylee on the phone. I doubt a 2 year old would be able to successfully dial a phone (and know the number) to talk to Casey.

I think with Casey's lies, she gets a mental image in her head and chooses parts of it to put into the lie. Seems like she was thinking of what caylee would say, (would caylee even articulate those words?) and then the image of her books, etc pops into mind and there you go - a fabricated story complete with a little truth and a little believability if you don't question her.
 
Intermezzo said:
BBM
She was also asked if Caylee was upset about not being able to see her mother...IIRC Casey said No...and then went off into a story involving Cindy.

IMO, a child that has not seen his/her parent in awhile would be sad, and would tell the parent to come get them and that they want to go home and not IMO launch into a happy story.
Curious as to why Casey brought up Caylee speaking of Shoes. Just curious.
Click to expand...

Shoes were the only piece of clothing that they did not find with the little body of Caylee. Wondering if KC had gotten Caylee new shoes recently because kids don't usually talk about their shoes unless they are fairly new.
 
BondJamesBond said:
I don't disagree, Tweety. IMHO, the most valuable element of "ZFG" is that it gives SA a solid launching point to build on. For example, ladies & gentlemen of the jury, we've established that Ms. Anthony lied. The defense told you that doesn't mean she's guilty of murder. Let's focus now on WHY she lied. What was her motive?

More to come... :)
Click to expand...

I like it! The Forensics of Lying, or Lying Deconstructed sounds almost like a category itself for this trial. I think motive for lying is very important here, as was her apparent increasing disregard for what rightfully belonged to others and facile ability to lie enough to convince her new friends (which something tells me were needing to be replaced more frequently as they started seeing through all the mistruths).

Also, I'd imagine this could be supported by her history of detailed reactive lying, from the non-graduation to the pregnancy story to the Sports Authority job. Every time she did something "bad" in her parents' eyes and was discovered she told a whopper and never backed down. The "bad" stuff was escalating rather rapidly, imo. It really goes to state of mind and lays the foundation for motive and intent.
 
impatientredhead said:
Casey won't take the stand, so all they could present is her statement. She won't offer any explanation for the claim.
They can then prove that claim was in fact a lie.

Defense will say we have acknowledged that my client lied angle but being a liar under a time of extreme stress does not make her a killer. Kind of the you are not going to like my client or understand everything she has done, but that doesn't prove the case.

moo
Click to expand...

But all of her stress sure didn't keep her from spinning the tale of the number being out of service or disconnected when she tried to call back (just seconds after Caylee had called). I have long thought the pretense of this call was the single worst offense of her since the slaughter of her daughter.
 
Could this alleged call play into a defense strategy that Caylee was not murdered until after July 15th? This, in addition to the report saying the remains could have been in the woods as late as sometime in July?
 
They could certainly try, but with the phone records debunking it, well...

The defense has a 'right proper mess' on their hands with this case, IMO.
 
Nuisanceposter said:
Me too.

What I found especially indicative of her lying about this call is that Casey didn't realize ahead of LE that if Caylee had truly been kidnapped and held away from the only home and family she'd ever known, she would not have sounded so perky and carefree, with nothing more than her shoes or books as foremost topic of conversation.

No "Mommy, I miss you and I want to come home." No "Mommy, when are you coming to get me?" No "Zani won't let me go home and I wanna go home right now."

Nothing that you would expect a child who had been taken from all that she'd ever known as security and stability in the family sense. Even if she'd been at the beach and at amusement parks and playing the white doggie and however many kids Zani's sister Sam has, she should still be asking why she isn't going home and why she's staying with Zani this long when she never did before and isn't able to see her grandparents or her mother or her own little dogs in her own home. She should sound somewhat concerned about this great upheaval of the only routine she'd ever lived in, definitely when combined with total deprivation of/removal from the only family she'd ever known.

Then when LE asks about that, Casey quick tries to cover for it (paraphrased): "Oh, it's because it was me. If it had been my mom, I know Caylee would have sounded like that."

Casey didn't realize that Caylee should have sounded a bit if not a lot worried about the change in schedule and residence that resulted from being kidnapped, and had to think on her feet to try and rationalize that one.

Nice try, Casey, but that was yet another epic fail. It only proves what an amateur liar she is. She had no idea what her daughter should or would sound like because that call never happened and she didn't think far enough ahead to have a lie at hand ready for that.

And as an added bite in the butt, she actually made it sound like Caylee is way more emotionally attached to Cindy than she is to Casey, which is probably true, but not to the extent that Caylee wouldn't have any negative reaction to offer her mother for this overlong overnight visit away from home. We know Caylee was acting clingy when around Casey's friends from interviews with them where they describe seeing Caylee staying close enough to Casey to be in sight if not within reach and crying for Mommy, which is typical and expected behavior from a toddler whose mother seems to neglect her while being in her company. Like how Casey films her daughter all the time but doesn't say a single word during the filming no matter how hard Caylee tries to engage her.

1 2 3 Cheese broke my heart...Caylee is practically knocking herself out to try and get Casey to answer her, then finally lets out a resigned sigh and turns her back on the cam. No toddler should ever have cause to sigh that heavily. I'm so sorry you felt so alone, baby angel. If only we could have known you then, we would have all been right there to color with you all day long.
Click to expand...

Can you please tell me which tape you are referring to, and provide a link... don't recall having seen this.
 
cecybeans said:
Thanks - I must have missed that in the depos. How disconnected of her though, not to have mentioned it while she was out with Yuri looking for Caylee. I'd think it would have been one of the first things out of her mouth, to mitigate the fact that she had admitted not seeing her for 31 days and not doing anything but frequent malls, parks and bars "looking" for her. Maybe she didn't see it as necessary until LE started hinting she may have some knowledge of what really happened.
Click to expand...

Nuisanceposter said:
Me too.

What I found especially indicative of her lying about this call is that Casey didn't realize ahead of LE that if Caylee had truly been kidnapped and held away from the only home and family she'd ever known, she would not have sounded so perky and carefree, with nothing more than her shoes or books as foremost topic of conversation.

No "Mommy, I miss you and I want to come home." No "Mommy, when are you coming to get me?" No "Zani won't let me go home and I wanna go home right now."

Nothing that you would expect a child who had been taken from all that she'd ever known as security and stability in the family sense. Even if she'd been at the beach and at amusement parks and playing the white doggie and however many kids Zani's sister Sam has, she should still be asking why she isn't going home and why she's staying with Zani this long when she never did before and isn't able to see her grandparents or her mother or her own little dogs in her own home. She should sound somewhat concerned about this great upheaval of the only routine she'd ever lived in, definitely when combined with total deprivation of/removal from the only family she'd ever known.

Then when LE asks about that, Casey quick tries to cover for it (paraphrased): "Oh, it's because it was me. If it had been my mom, I know Caylee would have sounded like that."

Casey didn't realize that Caylee should have sounded a bit if not a lot worried about the change in schedule and residence that resulted from being kidnapped, and had to think on her feet to try and rationalize that one.

Nice try, Casey, but that was yet another epic fail. It only proves what an amateur liar she is. She had no idea what her daughter should or would sound like because that call never happened and she didn't think far enough ahead to have a lie at hand ready for that.

And as an added bite in the butt, she actually made it sound like Caylee is way more emotionally attached to Cindy than she is to Casey, which is probably true, but not to the extent that Caylee wouldn't have any negative reaction to offer her mother for this overlong overnight visit away from home. We know Caylee was acting clingy when around Casey's friends from interviews with them where they describe seeing Caylee staying close enough to Casey to be in sight if not within reach and crying for Mommy, which is typical and expected behavior from a toddler whose mother seems to neglect her while being in her company...
Click to expand...


Respectfully snipped for space. BBM.

To me, these behaviors are more indicative of her pathology than mere clumsiness at lying (narcissism, sociopathy, remote possibility of borderline, whatever it turns out to be. Wish we could get access to those psych reports!) Whatever it is that she has, she can't get out of her own head enough to anticipate the most basic reactions of human nature. She can't empathize even that much. Which, to me at least, is pretty damning.
 
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