Found Safe TN - Katharine & Robert Baskin, Murfreesboro, 1 March 1989

Oh, my last reply there doesn't sound too friendly, does it?!

Well, thanks for joining us in this discussion!


And how come I log-in, post a reply, then try to post a "quick reply" and it asks me to sign-in again? So annoying.

Yes, the Grandfather or someone like that did die over the summer I believe. I remember reading about it on another site. And there was a link to the obituary and the Baskins were not listed as relatives on it.

And people were wondering if maybe the Maples had gone to it or if anyone there knows the whereabouts of the Maples and the children...

Such a heart breaking case. If I can find the link to the info on the death I'll post it.

I would love to see this one solved. One case that I'm always looking for info on.

Okay I found the link. It's a looooong thread though. 25 pages long before it was closed due to too much fighting.

Also someone who claims is a relative started posting on it too. It was quite interesting. Sad that it got closed though... I would have loved to have found more info from them.

"Wantingtohelp" said: "Yes, the Grandfather or someone like that did die over the summer I believe. I remember reading about it on another site. And there was a link to the obituary and the Baskins were not listed as relatives on it.

And people were wondering if maybe the Maples had gone to it or if anyone there knows the whereabouts of the Maples and the children...
"

Yes, it was the children's Great-Grandmother who passed away in March 2007. The children and their maternal grandparents who took them have NOT been found. The Sitcoms Online message board under "Unsolved Mysteries" has a huge thread on it that has been locked. You can still read it though.

http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=145144

I don't know if police or the FBI lurked at that funeral or not (or if they even knew about it). I don't think the parents of Bobby & Christi were notified of her passing with much warning to arrange that .

The abduction happened right in the middle of the hysteria surrounding "satanic ritual abuse" and "recovered memories". I'm going to guess that, having heard about some of these cases, the grandparents questioned the children about whether they had been abused. Unfortunately, the reason that "recovered memories" have been mostly debunked is because if you are not *extremely* careful about how you go about this, you end up implanting false memories, which is what happened in the "satanic ritual abuse" cases. So, in trying to protect the children, the grandparents probably ended up just ruining the childrens' memories of their parents and led them into lives where they believed they were victims, and damaged, when probably absolutely nothing happened. The studies that showed the problem with recovered memories did not come out until the mid-90s, so it was long after the fact.

I would not suspect that the grandparents were doing this to take the children away, but rather in their desire to protect their grandchildren they made a really awful mistake and noone can convince them that the alleged abuse never happened. So sad.

Bluecat said:

The abduction happened right in the middle of the hysteria surrounding "satanic ritual abuse" and "recovered memories". I'm going to guess that, having heard about some of these cases, the grandparents questioned the children about whether they had been abused. Unfortunately, the reason that "recovered memories" have been mostly debunked is because if you are not *extremely* careful about how you go about this, you end up implanting false memories, which is what happened in the "satanic ritual abuse" cases. So, in trying to protect the children, the grandparents probably ended up just ruining the childrens' memories of their parents and led them into lives where they believed they were victims, and damaged, when probably absolutely nothing happened. The studies that showed the problem with recovered memories did not come out until the mid-90s, so it was long after the fact.

I would not suspect that the grandparents were doing this to take the children away, but rather in their desire to protect their grandchildren they made a really awful mistake and noone can convince them that the alleged abuse never happened. So sad.

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I agree to a point. I think that the grandparents may believe abuse happened. I also think the grandparents became attached over the months the children lived with them and decided they didn't want to give them back. The extended family on that side certainly believe that the abuse occurred and doesn't seem to be able to look objectively at the case.

Bluecat said:

The abduction happened right in the middle of the hysteria surrounding "satanic ritual abuse" and "recovered memories". I'm going to guess that, having heard about some of these cases, the grandparents questioned the children about whether they had been abused. Unfortunately, the reason that "recovered memories" have been mostly debunked is because if you are not *extremely* careful about how you go about this, you end up implanting false memories, which is what happened in the "satanic ritual abuse" cases. So, in trying to protect the children, the grandparents probably ended up just ruining the childrens' memories of their parents and led them into lives where they believed they were victims, and damaged, when probably absolutely nothing happened. The studies that showed the problem with recovered memories did not come out until the mid-90s, so it was long after the fact.

I would not suspect that the grandparents were doing this to take the children away, but rather in their desire to protect their grandchildren they made a really awful mistake and noone can convince them that the alleged abuse never happened. So sad.

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It sort of worked both ways in those cases. Some people truly did believe that abuse occured and had good intentions. Others used the panic which ensued as a means to get what they wanted. I've read literally dozens of books on SRA and Recovered Memory and some of the tactics used to bring those "memories" back out were a much worse form of child abuse. In some cases, it was parents or care-givers doing the questioning. In other cases, it was psychologists. The whole SRA thing started because a woman with addiction issues and mental health problems became convinced her son was being sexually abused. It never should have gone as far as it did.

The Baskin family, I just don't know if the grandparents thought the kids were really being abused or they just played that as their ace in the hole to win custody.

You've got to wonder what is going on when people give up everything and go on the run for the rest of their lives. Either the grandparents are convinced there was abuse (real or imagined) or they are evil. I think people try to understand and cannot imagine that someone would take children from their parents unless they honestly thought the child was in imminent danger. Unfortunately, there are many horrible people in the world that hurt children everyday.

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cach...3269+"sandra+maple"&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=36&gl=us

Estelle Kuykendall
Estelle Kuykendall, age 89 of LaVergne, died Sunday March 25, 2007.

A native of Alabama. she was preceded in death by her parents, Thomas and Ada Lee Cobb Morris.

Mrs. Kuykendall was a member of LaVergne Church of Christ.

She is survived by her husband of 71 years Homer Kuykendall; daughters, Sandra Maple and Sally Sawyer; grandchildren, Sherry Dallas, Patti Steelman, Diane Thomas, Harold and Scott Sawyer, Christopher Peltier, and Lisa Cadet; 17 great-grandchildren and two great-great- grandchildren; and sisters, Allie Carter and Ann Posey.

Funeral services will be 10 a.m. Wednesday at Woodfin Chapel, Smyrna with Houston Bynum officiating. Burial will be at Woodlawn Memorial Park at 12 noon Wednesday. Visitation will be 4-8 p.m. Tuesday at Woodfin Chapel, Smyrna 459-3254

Hmmm... I wonder why Debbie Baskin isn't referenced in the obit as a grandchild since her two sisters, Sherry & Patti, are both mentioned? If this was a deliberate slight towards Debbie then if I were LE I would be taking a long hard look at every single family member listed in this obit to find out if any of them have been helping Marvin & Sandra. Who knows, if Christy & Bobby have been hearing nothing but bad things about their mother from her WHOLE SIDE side of the family all of these years then they might not care to reunite with her even though they are grown. I would be very interested to hear about the dynamics of the family, especially between Debbie and her two sisters, who were obviously invited to the funeral.....

Hello, everyone! I live in New Zealand, and Unsolved Mysteries used to be one of my favourite programmes. Like most others here, my interest in the Baskin case began with the UM segment, and after all these years it really sticks in my mind. That, and a parallel case which was shown on Unsolved Mysteries - the Pat Farmer case. Pat Farmer abducted her grandson Jared after accusing his mother of satanic ritual abuse. Apparently Pat did it because she didn't like her daughter getting a divorce. Unlike the Baskin case, this one was solved very quickly.

The Baskin case is one reason why I have become interested in the satanic ritual abuse (SRA) scares. In New Zealand, we had our own - the Peter Ellis case. Some of you who have read widely on SRA may have heard of this case. For those who haven't, Peter Ellis was a creche worker who was convicted of sexually abusing children at the Christchurch Civic Creche from 1986 to 1992 (and apparently he did it without any physical evidence, the children showing any psychological evidence of abuse until they were questioned, or anyone noticing anything suspicious although the creche was a busy place with people going to and fro all the time). He spent the non-parole period of a ten-year sentence. He has always maintained his innocence. Currently he is lodging a final appeal with the Privy Council. There is one point in his favour - the ruling the Privy Council made in the successful appeal of David Bain, who was convicted of murdering his entire family. The ruling the Privy Council made - that the jury should hear all the evidence (Ellis' jury only heard selected portions of the children's interviews) has direct bearing on the Ellis case.

Oh, and there was an article in the newspaper recently saying that the Ellis case caused huge shake-ups in the way children are interviewed. Interview techniques are now more standardised, and questioners more accountable. They are only allowed to interview children once and get as much as they can out of that single interview.

The best account so far of the Ellis case is "A City Possessed" by Lynley Hood.

This is the first I've heard of the Baskin case, but if it's true that the grandparents threatened to kill the children rather than see them returned to their parents, then I would have to believe the parents and question the mental stability of the grandparents.

Hmmm... I wonder why Debbie Baskin isn't referenced in the obit as a grandchild since her two sisters, Sherry & Patti, are both mentioned? If this was a deliberate slight towards Debbie then if I were LE I would be taking a long hard look at every single family member listed in this obit to find out if any of them have been helping Marvin & Sandra. Who knows, if Christy & Bobby have been hearing nothing but bad things about their mother from her WHOLE SIDE side of the family all of these years then they might not care to reunite with her even though they are grown. I would be very interested to hear about the dynamics of the family, especially between Debbie and her two sisters, who were obviously invited to the funeral.....

If you check out the Baskin thread at Unsolved Mysteries, you will see why Debbie isn't mentioned in the obituary (*sigh*...). There are some other answers to your questions as well. It also raises questions not only about the mentality of the grandparents, but the background they come from. The link is http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/...d.php?t=145144

Sameera said:

Hmmm... I wonder why Debbie Baskin isn't referenced in the obit as a grandchild since her two sisters, Sherry & Patti, are both mentioned? If this was a deliberate slight towards Debbie then if I were LE I would be taking a long hard look at every single family member listed in this obit to find out if any of them have been helping Marvin & Sandra. Who knows, if Christy & Bobby have been hearing nothing but bad things about their mother from her WHOLE SIDE side of the family all of these years then they might not care to reunite with her even though they are grown. I would be very interested to hear about the dynamics of the family, especially between Debbie and her two sisters, who were obviously invited to the funeral.....

If you check out the Baskin thread at Unsolved Mysteries, you will see why Debbie isn't mentioned in the obituary (*sigh*...). There are some other answers to your questions as well. It also raises questions not only about the mentality of the grandparents, but the background they come from. The link is http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/...d.php?t=145144

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Sameera, the link doesn't work. Can you try again, would love to read the info.

http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=145144&page=12

I have copied and pasted the link from the original URL so it should work this time. I am starting off at page 12 of the thread because that is where it all begins, and it carries through until the end of the thread.

This is both tragic and fascinating. So many people hurt and with their lives disrupted, I really feel for those children.

Samerra, I read though the thread you posted - I don't believe the poster claming to be related to Marvin actually is as she was incredibly vague and didn't answer the most important question of all imho - if the grandparents believed the parents were molesting the children why didn't they take Micheal with them as well? I know he was out of state when they did vanish but they could have waited until he was back and taken him.
That makes no sense to me...

I also read the sitcomsonline thread. It was very interesting, and I learned a lot about the case. I'm not sure if "dipahead" was really a relative or not, but I will say this: there is no way on earth the relatives of the Maples haven't heard from them in 17 years if they are still alive. The Maples had other children; they had brothers, sisters, and parents. To successfully stay in hiding for 17 years would take an incredible amount of support. I fully believe that if the Maples are still alive, they were in contact with and received help from their family members. The relatives of the Maples sit quietly on the sideline, claiming, as "dipahead" said, that they will wait for the now-grown children to come forward as they please. No way. Not for that long. They would want to know if Sandra and Marvin (and the kids) were safe, doing well, etc. They would provide them with money, shelter, food, whatever they needed. More, even. Maybe even helped them establish and maintain new identities. I believe the extended Maples family knows where Sandra and Marvin and the "kids" are, and if "dipahead" was really a relative, I believe she lied about that fact.

I never really believed Dipahead either when she said she and her relatives didn't know anything. Well, let's face it - all things considered, it is very hard to believe. Besides, Dipahead said some very peculiar things, such as the comment that the children will come out of hiding when they are ready, or words to that effect. A very odd thing to say for someone who says she and her relatives don't know where they are.

Still, if any of them know anything, it is probably more likely that only one or two relatives know where they are, rather than the whole family. The more relatives who know, the harder it is to keep the secret, and the greater the likelihood of someone making a mistake.

And yes, it is very suspicious that Dipahead is totally silent about Michael, and for all their ranting about keeping Bobby and Kristi away from their abusive parents, they don't seem to be concerned about the third child, potential grandchildren, or the adopted child. For all intents and purposes they have disowned Michael, which makes absolutely no sense and totally at odds with their concerns about the other two children.

A former correspondent to the thread told me she asked spit^fire twice to explain the "vaseline incident" she mentioned in her one and only post to the thread. Twice she got a load of ranting and raving defending Sandra and Marvin - but no answer to this question. So I wouldn't bother with any private messages to spit^fire and Dipahead.

And I sure hope they don't get started here, or this thread will go the same way as the other one.

OMG I remember this case so clearly and cannot believe how long it's been. Really amazes me. If you would have asked me when I thought this case happened, I would have said mid 90's. I just can't get past this that they've never been located. OMG. And if the children are aware that they are 'missing' they have probably been so psychologically tortured to believe that they were sexually abused and then some.

I hope these people burn for eternity. How could grandparents do this?

In regard to the "vaseline incident" spit^fire mentioned, but didn't elaborate on despite two opportunities offered, there has been speculation that Bobby probably had a medical problem, and his father and grandfather used vaseline for it. For example, Bobby may have had a touch of constipation, and a spot of vaseline up the posterior to moisten the stool is a very old remedy. Bobby may have mentioned it to his grandparents, who then took it completely out of context.

All too often this was how satanic ritual abuse cases started. For example, the Kelly Michaels "Monster of Maplewood" case began when Kelly took a boy's temperature, and for some reason his mother thought the temperature had been taken up his rectum when it was only a strip across his forehead. From there the whole thing blew up. In the aforementioned Peter Ellis case, this began when a child made some comment about "Peter's black penis" to his mother (a self-diagnosed victim of sexual abuse who actively involved in the fight against sexual abuse). It has never been established exactly what the child meant or even said: did he mean a penis or a puppy, and did he even mean Peter Ellis (his grandfather was called Peter). Nor were any charges ever laid in regard to him, but it was the spark that got the case going.