The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #4

Bart has had his problems, there is no doubt. He definitely has a problem behaving recklessly and violently while drunk. The Springfield Three abduction does not appear to be the act of an "out of control" alcoholic. It appears to be a planned and well executed crime. Perhaps, when sober, Bart can be an effective criminal but nothing I have seen or read has lead me to that conclusion. Bart is a "suspect" because of his relationship to 2 of the victims. There is a SOP of investigating these sorts of suspects. (How thouroughly was this done to Bart and all the others?)

Mule, you seem to have some information on Cox you are unable to share with us. That is unfortunate because it puts a damper on the conversation. What is the point of speculation if someone out there really knows the answer? I don't see Cox as a stronger suspect than any of the other Springfields lowlifes, but then I don't "know" what you "know".

This just leads back to my argument that so much time has elapsed that there is no value in "holding back" information. The best chance the SPD has of solving it now is to release what information they have in a manner that will generate maximum interest and publicity and hope that it gets people talking.

Missouri Mule said:

As a general rule of thumb alibis by parents are worthless. Of course he had opportunity since he had no alibi.

The motive would be evident if you had the information I have.

I regret to say that I'm not willing to endlessly nitpick the subject of Cox.

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Where does your “general rule of thumb” come from? Can you quote a criminology or law book or journal to support your claim or is this just like everything else, just your opinion although you don’t state it as so?

If the motive is evident with the information that you have then why do you continuously complain that we don’t have a motive?

If you are not willing to discuss the facts and circumstantial evidence concerning Cox then quit bringing it up how he is SPD’s number one suspect. You have already said that you have no circumstantial evidence to make your claim against him; you failed to name anyone within SPD who places Cox as their number one suspect; and you claim to have all these reliable sources giving you insight yet you complain endlessly that SPD won’t discuss this case.

If asking for facts and evidence is nitpicking then we will never get anywhere on here.

Missouri Mule said:

As a general rule of thumb alibis by parents are worthless. Of course he had opportunity since he had no alibi.

The motive would be evident if you had the information I have.

I regret to say that I'm not willing to endlessly nitpick the subject of Cox.

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Well considering no case has been made against him, the information is useless. There is no relationship between Cox and Garrison, that I know for a fact. THere is no relationship to rings and people at a particular address either, that is concocted information. That I know for a fact. So you must have something that is new and rellevent and you should follow it up.

Hurricane & Mule, you two have invested the shoe leather in the case and have opened it up for the rest of us who do not live in the area. If this thread leads to some "break" in the case; you two will deserve the credit. I hate to see animosity emerge since it seems to undermine any thread it infects. Mule, any time a poster indicates that he has information that he can not disclose, hackles will be raised. You have to expect it.

Not to change the subject or anything to interject this rather useless tidbit but I noticed a new comment on the True Crime Diary's write about this case that was posted on July 9th. Poster claims they wrote Cox and letter in prison and he wrote them back.

http://www.truecrimediary.com/index.cfm?page=cases&id=33&mode=comments#view
As a Florida resident it enrages me that if only the Florida Supreme Court, which is stacked with bleeding heart liberals looking to overturn every death sentence, had not allowed Cox to be released all his subsequent victims would have been spared including and most likely Mrs. Levitt, Miss Streeter, and Miss McCall. I contacted Cox through the Texas Department of Corrections and urged him to commit one decent act in his life and at least disclose the location of the bodies, if he truly has that information, as to give the suffering families a small measure of grace and peace. He wrote back asking for money and photos of teenage girls in bikinis. What an inhumane disgusting animal!

gaia227 said:

Not to change the subject or anything to interject this rather useless tidbit but I noticed a new comment on the True Crime Diary's write about this case that was posted on July 9th. Poster claims they wrote Cox and letter in prison and he wrote them back.

http://www.truecrimediary.com/index.cfm?page=cases&id=33&mode=comments#view
As a Florida resident it enrages me that if only the Florida Supreme Court, which is stacked with bleeding heart liberals looking to overturn every death sentence, had not allowed Cox to be released all his subsequent victims would have been spared including and most likely Mrs. Levitt, Miss Streeter, and Miss McCall. I contacted Cox through the Texas Department of Corrections and urged him to commit one decent act in his life and at least disclose the location of the bodies, if he truly has that information, as to give the suffering families a small measure of grace and peace. He wrote back asking for money and photos of teenage girls in bikinis. What an inhumane disgusting animal!

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That's a very good summary of the case. From the write-up:

==============================================================
"If it’s true, the man who would one day become the prime suspect was, in the early days, following the case from across the street."...

(Snip)

"For the detective, it’s the interviews he conducted. At some point it struck him that not one of the people he interviewed could keep something quiet for fifteen minutes, let alone fifteen years. He’s inclined to think one man is to blame." ...

(Snip)

“Well, stranger things have happened,” someone once said to the detective in a half-hearted attempt to comfort him about the case.

“No,” the detective said. “They haven’t.”
===============================================================

As best I recall the Zellers who brought this guy to the attention of the SPD were virtually certain that this was him as they had tracked his whereabouts after he was cut loose by the Florida Supremes. As soon as the case hit the news they blew the whistle on him.

This human animal who hides behind the skirts of a justice system gone awry is too cowardly to be released into the general population of the maximum prison in Lovelady, Texas. Instead he chooses to sit in his cell looking at the four walls while he wishes upon a star that the Texas judges will be as supremely stupid as the Florida justices. He even refuses to deny he murdered the women. He claims that because the cops are hassling him he is in solitary. The reality is that he is a rank coward who preys on innocent and weaker female victims. Had the Florida Supremes not gone soft in the head he would be dead along with his best new bud, Ted Bundy who was fried in 1989. As I recall, Bundy's advice to him was to make sure the bodies were never found. Looks from here like Cox took it to heart.

Sometimes it is necessary to apply the principle of Occam's Razor: This is one of those times.

“Of several acceptable explanations for a phenomenon, the simplest is preferable, provided that it takes all circumstances into account.”

gaia227 said:

Not to change the subject or anything to interject this rather useless tidbit but I noticed a new comment on the True Crime Diary's write about this case that was posted on July 9th. Poster claims they wrote Cox and letter in prison and he wrote them back.

http://www.truecrimediary.com/index.cfm?page=cases&id=33&mode=comments#view
As a Florida resident it enrages me that if only the Florida Supreme Court, which is stacked with bleeding heart liberals looking to overturn every death sentence, had not allowed Cox to be released all his subsequent victims would have been spared including and most likely Mrs. Levitt, Miss Streeter, and Miss McCall. I contacted Cox through the Texas Department of Corrections and urged him to commit one decent act in his life and at least disclose the location of the bodies, if he truly has that information, as to give the suffering families a small measure of grace and peace. He wrote back asking for money and photos of teenage girls in bikinis. What an inhumane disgusting animal!

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Thanks for that information. I have read that storyline several times and I remember when they were gathering information for that sight. I think it is a little bit of a collaberation of news articles and second hand accounts. It makes it sound as though Cox spent a lot of time with Bundy, but in his own words he said he only had one conversation with Bundy. What they discussed is anyones guess. I have never believed Cox committed the crime, I think he wants people to believe he did, I think he likes the attention. If he leads people to believe he knows something he wont be forgotten in prison. Obviously he is the subject of debate to this day. Now I would be open to Cox having something to do with this crime if I had more information about him. Someone like an ex girlfriend, one of his buddies, a family member that knew him personally. Someone that could give direction to his whereabouts, his habits or his vices. Something solid to make him a viable suspect. Right now a verdict of not guilty would be given to him in a trial.

Trooogrit said:

Thanks for that information. I have read that storyline several times and I remember when they were gathering information for that sight. I think it is a little bit of a collaberation of news articles and second hand accounts. It makes it sound as though Cox spent a lot of time with Bundy, but in his own words he said he only had one conversation with Bundy. What they discussed is anyones guess. I have never believed Cox committed the crime, I think he wants people to believe he did, I think he likes the attention. If he leads people to believe he knows something he wont be forgotten in prison. Obviously he is the subject of debate to this day. Now I would be open to Cox having something to do with this crime if I had more information about him. Someone like an ex girlfriend, one of his buddies, a family member that knew him personally. Someone that could give direction to his whereabouts, his habits or his vices. Something solid to make him a viable suspect. Right now a verdict of not guilty would be given to him in a trial.

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I totally agree. While he is a compelling suspect there is absolutely nothing except hearsay and speculation to back up any claims. LE couldn't even form a good circumstantial case against him if they wanted too. On the other hand LE finds him interesting enough that they have gone down to TX (or is he in FL?) and interviewed him more than once. They might have some info we don't know about.

I tend to think he is just a sociopath who enjoys the attention and fancies himself in the same league (for lack of a better word) as people like Bundy except Cox does not even compare as far as intelligence and cunning and I find it unlikely that Ted Bundy would waste his time on someone like Cox unless he just enjoyed manipulating him

MM = it was the Zellers who alerted police to the existence of Cox (per the Newleader anyway). They saw the case of the missing 3 on the news and knew that Cox was in Springfield at the time and they contacted LE.

As far as suspects I think the Peacock brothers are an interesting duo to examine more closely. TangledWeb has mentioned them several times on this thread. They are either just two unlucky guys who coincidentally tend to be in the vicinity of unsolved murders and/or missing people occur or they have something to do with them.

gaia227 said:

As far as suspects I think the Peacock brothers are an interesting duo to examine more closely. TangledWeb has mentioned them several times on this thread. They are either just two unlucky guys who coincidentally tend to be in the vicinity of unsolved murders and/or missing people occur or they have something to do with them.

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I totally agree that the Peacock brothers should be looked at more closely. I thought the same thing back when tangledweb posted that info about them. I'm going to go back on this thread this weekend and try to read the info he posted regarding them. They do always seem to turn up where there are unsolved murders. I can't remember offhand, were they suspects in the Angela Hammond disappearance? I've often wondered about her abduction, and if the same perp (s) was responsible for the disappearance of the 3MW.

gaia227 said:

I totally agree. While he is a compelling suspect there is absolutely nothing except hearsay and speculation to back up any claims. LE couldn't even form a good circumstantial case against him if they wanted too. On the other hand LE finds him interesting enough that they have gone down to TX (or is he in FL?) and interviewed him more than once. They might have some info we don't know about.

I tend to think he is just a sociopath who enjoys the attention and fancies himself in the same league (for lack of a better word) as people like Bundy except Cox does not even compare as far as intelligence and cunning and I find it unlikely that Ted Bundy would waste his time on someone like Cox unless he just enjoyed manipulating him

MM = it was the Zellers who alerted police to the existence of Cox (per the Newleader anyway). They saw the case of the missing 3 on the news and knew that Cox was in Springfield at the time and they contacted LE.

As far as suspects I think the Peacock brothers are an interesting duo to examine more closely. TangledWeb has mentioned them several times on this thread. They are either just two unlucky guys who coincidentally tend to be in the vicinity of unsolved murders and/or missing people occur or they have something to do with them.

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I essentially agree with your take. For the longest time I had considered him to be a blowhard wanting attention. But the more I delved into this case and based on information I received, there was a connection that was more than coincidental IF TRUE. That would provide the motive. There is someone who could speak directly to this subject but I don't see that happening. This is a very delicate matter to put it mildly. The one thing I cannot do is to find a single thing that could eliminate him. His alibi has no standing and his past history is deplorable and he won't even deny he did this crime which would allow him out of solitary as I am given to believe.

I had occasion to discuss this case with a retired state trial judge and briefed him on the essence of this case and Cox's history to see if my thinking was right. He agreed with my take and understanding of the system.

For someone who is trained in the art of martial combat it seems passing strange he would voluntarily lock himself away from the general population. The only logical reason I can think he would do this is because he actually believes he will be paroled in the future and he is willing to wait it out without fear for his life. He is in a Texas maximum facility, and Texas is not known for its lush facilities and treatment of inmates. His cell has no air conditioning. He has no access to outside communication and cell phones are absolutely forbidden. (An inmate recently received an additional 60 year sentence added to his existing sentence for the mere possession of a cellphone.)

On the other hand he could, if he wanted to, work out better deal with the prosecutor's office in Missouri but it would have one catch. He would never get out of prison under any circumstances. In Texas he must believe he will. That's the only logic I can see to his unwillingness to be forthright.

He is in fact in Eastham Unit, located in Lovelady, Texas; a "maximum" facility. That is 65 miles from where I live. I've often thought of attempting to visit him there to get a personal take on him. I may do that at some point in time if he and the prison authorities would consent. That I would have no control.

Well the Hammond case and 2 others around that time in Nevada, Clinton and Macks Creek, the i-70 killer, Ziewicki murder, all of this in a short amount of time. Recla, Clay, Bartt, Cox, GJ3, the Peacocks. Rapes in SPringfield, Branson, Wichita. All known events, known suspects, but do we really have anything to follow? Botched case? I dont believe so, nothing to prove that. IF we know all these things right here on this board then investigators knew all of this then. I am sure these leads were followed as far as they could go. I dont know if there is anything that involves any of these suspects that gives an answer. SOMETHING new needs to come to light in my opinion.

Ok I am only going to say this once on here and I expect what I say to be adhered to. Do not out anyone on these threads if htere is a problem with someones post alert to it and pass it by do not reply.

As far as the "from what I know posts"--knock it off. If you cant post it here do not talk about it at all. If you cannot post links to back up your facts then you need to post as opinions only. When you say something is fact give a link to the item you are talking about. We do not allow ANYONE to post the "i know this but cant say how" items here--it does nothing but cause problems for the original poster and the mods and they will be deleted and the poster given a break.

Go back and delete the posts that do not comply with this rule. If they are too old for you to delete pm a mod and give them a link to the post so we can delete them for you.

eta: I deleted numerous posts quoting the problem posts if I missed any please pm me with a link!

For those interested, I've added a couple of old news articles to the media thread for review.

Indianagirl said:

For those interested, I've added a couple of old news articles to the media thread for review.

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Good information about the birthmark and the location of the van sighting. I hadn't recalled seeing either of those articles. Thx very much! That is really a terrific find in my view.

Many thanks for the find. May I suggest doing a "Mapquest" and then plug in 1717 East Delmar and then 3000 East Grand. It appears apparent that Grand Street does not leave Springfield. That suggests why the van had to turn around. Also it appears Suzie was in fact driving the van. A timeline and a likely route out of town appear clear. It was not previously clear to me this was actually the van or that Suzie was actually the driver. This clears up those questions to my satisfaction.

Relevant excerpts:

The woman told authorities Streeter drove a van into a next-door driveway and stopped as if lost about 6:30 a.m. that day.

Streeter appeared to be crying and a birthmark on her face could be seen as the van stopped. (snip)

"Now back up and don't do anything stupid," Clymer said.

Clymer said the incident has been considered a confirmed sighting...

(snip) The silvery green and older model Dodge van sighted was 15 blocks from the home where the women disappeared...

(Snip)

Media Links NO DISCUSSION - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Did Suzy have a birthmark on her face? That is significant, if true.

kemo said:

Did Suzy have a birthmark on her face? That is significant, if true.

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From the "Charley Project" site:

"She has a small tumor on the left corner of her mouth which gives the appearance of chewing tobacco."

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/streeter_suzanne.html

I'm speculating but I would think this was what was observed and although I have no way to know for certain, I imagine that the van pulled in the driveway just due west of where the eyewitness saw the van. As I recall, this particular side of the street (the south) which I believe likely the van turned around had smaller homes on smaller lots than on the north side of Grand. (Perhaps some local resident could drive by that approximate area to confirm that) If that is the case, the eyewitness most probably had a reasonably close-up view of Suzie. In any event she would have had to have viewed this characteristic from the left side.

That article is so exact that I am wondering how valid it is. I mean the report of that van was not given for 2-3 weeks after the abduction. I will have to look the date up, but then it sat in the pile of tips until August I believe. Maybe she saw her close enough to notice the tumor, I guess I did'nt realize it was that pronounced.

Trooogrit said:

That article is so exact that I am wondering how valid it is. I mean the report of that van was not given for 2-3 weeks after the abduction. I will have to look the date up, but then it sat in the pile of tips until August I believe. Maybe she saw her close enough to notice the tumor, I guess I did'nt realize it was that pronounced.

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I concur with your thinking. This was news to me. I know I never saw anything in the local newspaper or news about this as you say that exacting.

Perhaps this explains it:(from the article. The article is from Oklahoma. It was written just prior to the airing of "48 Hours.")

"Nancy Clymer of north Oklahoma City is the aunt of Stacy McCall, 18, who has been missing since early June. Clymer said officials from the CBS news magazine show "48 Hours" have told family members of the missing woman that the story will air next Wednesday."

Clymer is Stacy's Aunt and lives in Oklahoma. The article just quotes what she said. So, IMO the Aunt was probably told this, perhaps by her sister, who heard it from SPD? (Maybe what was truly said was lost in translation?) SPD must have put a lot of stock into it, as there was a mock up green van displayed. I guess it just depends on whether one thinks the porch lady is considered credible or that sighting is valid. IMO, there isn't enough public information out there to decide one way or the other.

Trooogrit, I also thought the tumor was not that pronounced. However, maybe when Suzie talked it pronounced it? Or maybe its something hard to notice in just a picture?