Observations of a newby

luvbeaches said:

It was the Ramsey's who took so long. And I'm sure I read where the shirt Patsy turned over was new, not the one she wore that day/night, but a look-alike. The Ramsey's stalled and stammered at every piont, and in the mean time, they tossed everyone under the bus.

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No. The Ramseys turned the clothes over within a month of when they were asked. What ST says in his book is "Had the original investigators bagged the clothing on the morning of Dec 26, we would have had instant possession...Instead we waited more than a year." He dishonestly fails to mention BPD didn't ask for the clothes for nearly a year. She sent two shirts. One he claims "smelled brand new" the other he deems too small. For reasons he doesn't explain he says neither was worn on Dec 26th.

luvbeaches said:

And how about looking for the "Killer" like they said they were going to do...they haven't done a thing. They probably lunch with OJ. .

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They have spent huge sums on private investigators. Their depositions mention information found by their investigators and turned over to the police. Nowhere in the conversations do the police deny that Ramsey investigators turned info over to them.

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simplesimon said:

The thing that bothers me is and makes me suspicious of the R"S is the way they act.
Yes,I know everyone acts different under extreme stress and pressure but when you look at the R's ,OJ, Scott Peterson they just acted strangely!Compare that to the VanDams, Mark Klaas,the Smart,s their actions just do not "feel right" Now grant it we can not prosecute on feelings but my gut feeling is "SUMTHIN wrong here ' to use Dr. Lee's quote.

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I'm with you...something is not right.

tipper said:

No. The Ramseys turned the clothes over within a month of when they were asked. What ST says in his book is "Had the original investigators bagged the clothing on the morning of Dec 26, we would have had instant possession...Instead we waited more than a year." He dishonestly fails to mention BPD didn't ask for the clothes for nearly a year. She sent two shirts. One he claims "smelled brand new" the other he deems too small. For reasons he doesn't explain he says neither was worn on Dec 26th.

They have spent huge sums on private investigators. Their depositions mention information found by their investigators and turned over to the police. Nowhere in the conversations do the police deny that Ramsey investigators turned info over to them.

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At this point, there's really nothing that's going to change my mind. There's just too many other things that do not add up with the Ramsey's. I do believe that Burke is going to solve this mystery, once and for all.

Have not gone to Jayelles link yet, suffering from major eye strain this morning. Later.

Leve, I appreciated your noble and revealing test with the EA device.

About the carrying the body up the stairs, major boo boo, imop.

What shoulda, coulda, mighta been done by a caring parent, when her body was found by JR was indeed to have hollered at the top of his voice and collapsed in shaking distress and tears. Yes men cry.

Bodies found and undisturbed, are removed by the 'professionals' on a gurney, when the initial investigation is completed collecting forensic info etc. Carrying a tiny body up the stairs on a gurney by professionals is done easily, even if a turn is to be made on the upward climb.

I noted that her body was taken from the house in full view of the television cameras on a 'gurney'.

Yep JR is highly suspect in my book of wonderment, in that he wanted to remove himself from the list of 'who done it people'.

Everyone I know, including myself, when looking for a 'lost' anything, watch, letter, whatever, hollers when they find 'it'. Do I have odd friends or do you do that too?


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I think there is a HUGE difference between a lost item and finding your child dead.


I have no idea how a person SHOULD react at such a horrible time, nor will I pretend to even know how I would react.

Linda7NJ said:

I think there is a HUGE difference between a lost item and finding your child dead.


I have no idea how a person SHOULD react at such a horrible time, nor will I pretend to even know how I would react.

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Indeed I understand your concern over presupposing how one would behave on any given situation. I would ask yet again, when you lose something, or discover something is NOT in the place where it should be, would you not LOOK and LOOK and try and find where the item is?

I find it inconceivable that a parent when finding their 6 year old baby gone from her bedroom would NOT look everywhere in the home to find her.

This part of the Ramsey behavior rings a dull bang on my gong of lifes behaviors.

Surely you would not tell me that you never look for something that is misplaced or missing from its normal place.


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But would you look and look if someone had left you a note that says "We have your [thing]?"

Who knows? We might. Especially since there was nothing else to do but look, once they'd made some calls.

Eagle1 said:

Who knows? We might. Especially since there was nothing else to do but look, once they'd made some calls.

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Hey I could see being afraid to search the house for fear that someone dangerous may still be in the home.

It's the police that I would think should have searched every inch of the home. Especially given the chance that the kidnapper did not get out of the home.

tipper said:

But would you look and look if someone had left you a note that says "We have your [thing]?"

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I think I would tend to believe the RN since it was found in the house and my child missing from her bed. I doubt I would look and look and look.

In this particular crime, I would most certainly think that 'they' (the R's) would NOT have looked, or looked and looked, since they already knew 'what' was in the basement, having prepared the ransom note etc., imop.

When Arndt asked JR to check around and 'see' if anything looked different, JR headed fer the basemint ASAP. Hmmm.

Using the logic in a previous posters post, WHY would the police LOOK either, since the ransom note said the 'foreign faction' had taken JonBenet.

YET, Arndt, thought ?, it would be a plus to SEE IF anything looked different or out of place. WHY bother doing that either, hmmm.

I think that the parents with their child being 'GONE' that it would nearly be an automatic reflex to look themselves to see what might be 'different' er, even IF IF they were not looking for JonBenet, BEFORE they called the police OR right after they called BPD at least.

I don't think fear was a factor since the R's did not fear the 'ransom note' that stated their daughter would be dead, IF IF they talked to a dog er. Well they did not talk to a dog, they talked to their friends and had them COME OVER, which would have included more TALKING. NO, I personally donut think the R's feared anything that morning, except perhaps being separated by LE and interviewed while everything was FRESH in their minds.

MOP


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Camper said:

In this particular crime, I would most certainly think that 'they' (the R's) would NOT have looked, or looked and looked, since they already knew 'what' was in the basement, having prepared the ransom note etc., imop.

When Arndt asked JR to check around and 'see' if anything looked different, JR headed fer the basemint ASAP. Hmmm.

Using the logic in a previous posters post, WHY would the police LOOK either, since the ransom note said the 'foreign faction' had taken JonBenet.

YET, Arndt, thought ?, it would be a plus to SEE IF anything looked different or out of place. WHY bother doing that either, hmmm.

I think that the parents with their child being 'GONE' that it would nearly be an automatic reflex to look themselves to see what might be 'different' er, even IF IF they were not looking for JonBenet, BEFORE they called the police OR right after they called BPD at least.

I don't think fear was a factor since the R's did not fear the 'ransom note' that stated their daughter would be dead, IF IF they talked to a dog er. Well they did not talk to a dog, they talked to their friends and had them COME OVER, which would have included more TALKING. NO, I personally donut think the R's feared anything that morning, except perhaps being separated by LE and interviewed while everything was FRESH in their minds.

MOP


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I agree with you. I think the Ramseys know exactly what hapened to that child. BUT just in case I am wrong I try to look at it the other way.

Zman said:

Hey I could see being afraid to search the house for fear that someone dangerous may still be in the home.

It's the police that I would think should have searched every inch of the home. Especially given the chance that the kidnapper did not get out of the home.

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Their son is sleeping in his bed and all the Ramseys do is take a peek into his room....what if the killer/kidnapper was hiding in his closet???

Toltec said:

Their son is sleeping in his bed and all the Ramseys do is take a peek into his room....what if the killer/kidnapper was hiding in his closet???

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Could have been. Why didn't BPD worry about that? They were supposed to be the professionals.

tipper said:

Could have been. Why didn't BPD worry about that? They were supposed to be the professionals.

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Well some would have us believe a 'fear factor' was at work here. What does a person do when a 'fear factor' is at full speed. Hmmm, when I have a fear, I start thinking, 'what can I do' in this 'fearful situation', what will work, what won't work, an instant eval on 'just HOW fearful am I'.

WE know that John fibricated in later years, when the GA home was 'invaded by the faceless perp who LOCKED JR in the bathroom, by tying a rope to a bathroom doorknob, and the other end to a china cabinet that the perp moved to the bathroom door. I am guessing the faceless perp did not have much rope, er not enough to just tie up JR, and put him in the tub. Hmmm, I am remembering that the faceless perp took PR's KMart jewelry and a bag-a-guns, help me out here. HE HAD GUNS.

Early on in the investigation, someone will have to look it up, JR said he did not own a gun/guns.

Well to give the man a free pass, maybe he bought a bag of em later. How many guns were in the bag that was taken, I don't remember reading that. Was it a collection, er a KMart special, buy one get one, er, hmmm.

Well if I was 'a feared' and had a gun, I'd go git it, in this particular situation. Then I would start searching the house stealthily (that means real quiet) gun in hand, looking (to see what I could see or find).

Toltec, what a great point about one of the 'foreign faction' possibly being in Burkes closet. The hour was early, and apparently the 'perp' did not know the R's would be up so early.

Heck if one child is good to kidnap, two might be better. As posters in the past have pointed out, IF it was a foreign faction some of em put higher value on a mans son, rather than their daughter.

I think upon reflection that when I am in a state of fear, my adrenalin rises, and I become the fearsome one. I may be ODD though.


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tipper said:

Could have been. Why didn't BPD worry about that? They were supposed to be the professionals.

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Probably because they assumed that the Ramsey Parental instincts kicked in and the Ramseys already searched Burke's room.

Any mother would instinctively run to her child's room and make absolutely sure that he is safe. A quick peek into the room does not cut it.

Another thing that screams BS, JR laid her in the front foyer/hallway after coming up stairs. Ardnt moved her to under the tree. If he was trying to make his baby better, he would have laid her on the couch - not the cold hard floor. And he moved her closer to where PR was because he didn't want PR to see her like that?

Makes no sense.

Toltec said:

Their son is sleeping in his bed and all the Ramseys do is take a peek into his room....what if the killer/kidnapper was hiding in his closet???

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One more reason not to open it. One more reason to call police right away. Which they did.

Toltec said:

Probably because they assumed that the Ramsey Parental instincts kicked in and the Ramseys already searched Burke's room.

Any mother would instinctively run to her child's room and make absolutely sure that he is safe. A quick peek into the room does not cut it.

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They said they were thinking at one point maybe she was hiding somewhere. If you think she might have hidden somewhere, wouldn't you check each and every closet? If your daughter was gone, wouldn't you check every place possible, even if it meant waiting for the police and sending them to check if you were afraid the intruder was still on the property? That's the one thing I don't get...why was it automatically asumed that this was a kidnapping (despite the highly questionably long and unconventional ransom note)? Why didn't police take it upon themselves to get everyone in the house (why were so many people allowed to be milling about?) in one place and scour it top to bottom themselves firsthand?

I know if my six year old turned up missing I would check and recheck every single inch of my property, and anything surrounding my property as well, and when the police arrived, I would send them out to do the very same thing. The Ramseys knew she was dead downstairs, and that there was no point in searching for her.

Why, why, why indeed did the BPD not clamp things down? Officer French did search the house, but failed to look into the cellar (because it had a latch).

I can understand the R's having some fear and knowing that BPD were going to be there in a few moments, so they didn't do a total extensive search. I might have acted differently, but I wasn't in their shoes.

John did some search down in the basement, but for some reason like French did not go into the cellar. Fleet White did look into the cellar, but saw nothing. That bothers me no matter what people say. JonBenet was wearing white.
Like the RN, so many things compound to confuse.