The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #1

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Old_School_PDA said:
I don't think Ky3 would run this story without checking facts or checking the man's creditials. However, wasn't the parking garage already there in 92? Also, if not, that area was far from barren in 92. Two hospitals were nearby. People could have watched the perps digging graves from the Cox South windows. I would hate to be digging graves at a major intersection within sight of a 7 story building with a 24 hour staff. I think it is telling that none of the other news outlets have covered the story.--Ky3 may be looking to generate interest for a 15 year anniversary special.

-Mule, in one of your earlier posts you alluded to a possible suspect that may have dated Levitt. Was this the guy in town that always seemed to be a suspect anytime a girl turned up dead or nearly abducted? Do you know who I'm talking about? I'm sure he was a suspect in the Jackie Johns case. I think he actually got caught in an attempted abduction once. If Levitt actually dated him, that would be news. I don't want to use his name online. However, if you lived in Springfield, I'm sure you know who I'm talking about.

Witnesses remember the van cruising the area up to three weeks before the abduction. Why would an aquaintance "case" the area for 3 weeks. Most of these clues don't fit together.

By the way-I don't mean to be ghoulish-I drove by 1717 Delmar, and you're right. It is more secluded than I remember.
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I lived in or around Springfield from 1975 to 2001. Truthfully, I don't know when the parking lot was put in there.

Yes, I do know who you are talking about. The rumor was that Sherrill Levitt had dated a businessman. I believe that was attributed to friends of Suzie who evidently heard this rumor. I know nothing further about it. I suspect a lot of this stuff is nothing more than rumor.

I agree completely that the two facts do not fit together. The case must ultimately rest on the elimination of possibilities to arrive at the irreducible minimum facts. Or to quote Sherlock Holmes:

"When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

Having said that I believe the case is less than meets the eye. And in the end, people will slap themselves on the forehead and ask themselves why didn't they look at the obvious hiding in plain sight?
 
miles_draken said:
Lets not forget that the police always hold back information on these cases that only they and the perpetrators would know about. They aren't putting all their knowledge on the news or in the papers. I trust that they have done a satisfactory job in discounting the Cox South theory. What possible gain could there be for them NOT to solve this case? Get another 'expert' with this ground penetrating radar out there and if you can get two different people to come up with the same belief then perhaps it's worth digging up. Doesn't seem to be anyone wanting to dip their professional reputation in that pool though.
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Miles Draken is wrong. There are several people who are willing to 'dip their professional reputation in that pool,' as he says.
When Mike Owen spoke of the instrument that was used, and how he didn't believe in it, how 'his experts' said it doesn't exist, he was referring to the first scan that was done back in April.
That scan was done by Tim Gray. Tim came to my home and spent a week-end with my family and me in July. He brought the instrument and demonstrated it for several of us. It most assuredly does exist, whether Mike Owen believes in it or not.
Tim Gray offered to go back to Springfield and meet with Cox Hospital officials as well as the local police. His offer was rejected.
No one has ever contacted me, except Detective Gregg Higdon, whom they got rid of within weeks of our 'discovery.' I sent Higdon all the information, including phone numbers for everyone involved. It did no good.
Rick Norland was called in because he couldn't be accused of 'being part of our team.' He knows nothing about anything that's been going on, and was not interested in proving anyone right -- or wrong.
And how did the Springfield police do a 'satisfactory job in discounting the Cox South theory?' What did they do to 'discount' it? I'll tell you what they did. They went and talked to people at the university down there, and then got on KY# and said that their 'experts' had 'debunked' our claim, by simply saying that GPR was not capable of finding graves.
In the interview, Owen swung from Tim Gray [without ever mentioning the man's name] over to Rick Norland, and he rolled it all together as if he was simply talking about one scan, and one scan only.
Further more, there was an article published within weeks after Tim Gray was down there and did his scan. This article glorified a new GPR that the university had. In the article [which I have posted on my web site] the 'experts' at the university 'bragged' that the machine could be used to 'find graves with.'
Monica Caison is a well known and respected person. She operates the CUE Center in Wilmington, North Carolina, and owns search dogs. She has offered her assistance.
Now I raised and trained German Shepherd Dogs for police, security, search and rescue, tracking, etc, for more than 25 years. I don't know if a dog could pick up a cadaver scent beneath concrete, when it's nearly fifteen years old -- but you know what .... I don't know that they couldn't either. Why don't I know the answer to this simple question? Because the Springfield police have never put forth even this simple amount of effort to try to determine if, in fact there are human remains beneath that concrete, that's why.
My real question is this ...... what's the big deal? They have dug up half the territory with far less evidence than they have now ...... so what's the problem?? Owen says they have spent an enormous amount of time following our tips ...... how'd he do that? We only gave him one tip. He said our 'tip' was vague and not specific enough.
Okay, here it is again .........
The women are buried under 2 to 3 feet of concrete, in the rear parking garage at Cox Hospital South. Two of them are side by side. The third one is spaced a few feet away from the other two. They are still wearing some jewelry, and they may be wrapped in something. If they still can't find the 'spot,' there are at least three people who can take them directly to it .......... probably blindfolded by this time! If they can't afford to core the concrete, there are people willing to put up their own money to get the job done. How much more specific can a person get? How much more 'reputation' is required?
 
I agree. Since people are willing to put up their own money, why not do the dig and see what is there? With nothing to lose, it is an obvious miscarriage of the justice system for the dig not to be done. All they have to lose now is nothing if other parties are willing to pay. And, if they are right and nothing is there, I suppose they can put another feather in their cap and say "We were right..."

For free, don't the missing girls deserve this? Who is hiding what?
 
Has it occurred to anyone why Mike Owen was the spokesman for the Springfield Police Department?

BTW, for those interested, I now believe that the "moss green" van was a hoax. The van in question was always dirty white just as the witness that saw it cruise the neighborhood some three weeks prior to the abductions. That moss green van sat on the grounds of the Springfield Police lawn for four months and meanwhile it was never the color of the van that was actually used. How convenient!!

And then ask yourself why Mike Owen was the spokesman for the investigation on KY-3.

Folks, this isn't rocket science here.
 
tresor613 said:
I agree. Since people are willing to put up their own money, why not do the dig and see what is there? With nothing to lose, it is an obvious miscarriage of the justice system for the dig not to be done. All they have to lose now is nothing if other parties are willing to pay. And, if they are right and nothing is there, I suppose they can put another feather in their cap and say "We were right..."

For free, don't the missing girls deserve this? Who is hiding what?
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But we are assuming that they haven't already done a probe and know they are there or are not there, aren't we? Remember what they say about "assume."

You can be fairly certain that whoever was involved in this crime monitors this and all sites on the internet looking for information about the progress of the case because they certainly are not getting it out of the police department that has locked this thing down tighter than a tick. The police are waiting for the perps to make mistakes; show their hands and turn on one another. And they know that it only takes one of them to turn state's evidence and the rest all go down for the count. First one in gets a "free get out of jail card." The rest get to spend the rest of their time on earth modeling those pretty orange jump suits.

I challenge anyone to get information out of the police department about this crime. You might as well wait for the sun to rise in the west. They aren't talking.
 
Either I'm confused, or a bunch of other people are.

I'm NOT assuming that the police examined the area in question, at all. Why would I assume that when Mike Owen plainly stated they had no intentions of examining it?
Furthermore, I do not 'request information' from the police. I GIVE them information.
I have discussed many cases with many, many cops, judges, prosecuting attorneys and news reporters ........ dozens of cases, all across the nation. The only questions that I have ever asked is .... does my information fit the case? In most cases this information pertains to clothing, direction of travel, etc. Sometimes, in missing person cases, it pertains to where the body can be found. There is no way any cop, anywhere on earth can say the information is no good until they have searched the area that I have pinpointed.
In the three missing Missouri women's case, most people involved knew it would do no good to tell the cops [in fact they had already been told several times by Ken] where the remains were located. So, we took it a step further. We hired people to do scans of the area ........ then we GAVE that information to the cops.
No one that I know of is trying to get information from the police. In fact, I could care less about who killed the women, or where the killer are. You cannot have a 'murder' investigation unless and until the remains are found and it's actually determined the people are dead.
With Mrs. McCall telling everyone she believes her daughter is alive, then common sense dictates the other two women are alive also. Must be run-a-ways, I suppose. They sure traveled light.
All information that the people I work with have, has been handed over to the police and that includes the person we believe is responsible .... a man who's already in prison, and has no reason to talk. As long as the women are not recovered, he will remain in prison. However, if they are found -- especially if they are found as this man has described -- then he faces the electric chair. Why would he talk?
Again, I repeat, no one I know of is trying to get information from the police.
The reporter that I mentioned was offering to do an article on the women -- and possibly generate some 'tips for the police.' They forbade him to do a story on these missing women.
 
Starlight said:
Either I'm confused, or a bunch of other people are.

I'm NOT assuming that the police examined the area in question, at all. Why would I assume that when Mike Owen plainly stated they had no intentions of examining it?
Furthermore, I do not 'request information' from the police. I GIVE them information.
I have discussed many cases with many, many cops, judges, prosecuting attorneys and news reporters ........ dozens of cases, all across the nation. The only questions that I have ever asked is .... does my information fit the case? In most cases this information pertains to clothing, direction of travel, etc. Sometimes, in missing person cases, it pertains to where the body can be found. There is no way any cop, anywhere on earth can say the information is no good until they have searched the area that I have pinpointed.
In the three missing Missouri women's case, most people involved knew it would do no good to tell the cops [in fact they had already been told several times by Ken] where the remains were located. So, we took it a step further. We hired people to do scans of the area ........ then we GAVE that information to the cops.
No one that I know of is trying to get information from the police. In fact, I could care less about who killed the women, or where the killer are. You cannot have a 'murder' investigation unless and until the remains are found and it's actually determined the people are dead.
With Mrs. McCall telling everyone she believes her daughter is alive, then common sense dictates the other two women are alive also. Must be run-a-ways, I suppose. They sure traveled light.
All information that the people I work with have, has been handed over to the police and that includes the person we believe is responsible .... a man who's already in prison, and has no reason to talk. As long as the women are not recovered, he will remain in prison. However, if they are found -- especially if they are found as this man has described -- then he faces the electric chair. Why would he talk?
Again, I repeat, no one I know of is trying to get information from the police.
The reporter that I mentioned was offering to do an article on the women -- and possibly generate some 'tips for the police.' They forbade him to do a story on these missing women.
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That's what Owen said on camera. Absence of evidence does not prove evidence of absence. We can't be sure either way.

As to Cox, I deduce the reason he will not talk is simply he doesn't have anything to say. He's going to rot in prison anyway. He could call up to the Prosecuting Attorney's office today and say he's ready to work a deal in return for giving up the location of the bodies. The deal would be a life sentence. He could be famous like Ted Bundy and have books and women swooning over him like Bundy. He would return to his home state to be near family. Instead, he's in the middle of Nowhere, Texas rotting in a solitary confinement cell in total obscurity. What's the upside of that? He knows he is a no good varmit. Why not get in some of the famous true crime writers like Ann Rule and tell his story and humanize him? That's what I would do in his shoes. Become famous. He gives up a little to go down in the history books, like Bundy. Billy the Kid and Jesse James, both psychopaths are today seen as some kind of heroes. Movies would be made about him and his "deprived" childhood and all of that stuff. Instead, he will die in total obscurity in prison and buried in a cheap pine box in the middle of Nowhere, Texas. Doesn't compute.
 
I haven't posted anything on this for a while. Not being anywhere near Missouri I am not at all familiar with the territory like most of you are. Also, I'm not near clever enough to come up with any sound ideas to discuss it further here or at airalex.com.

I remain very interested in the case though, to the point where I think of it daily and I still would like to see more media coverage on it. To that end, I signed the petition at airalex and I e-mailed 48 Hours, Greta Van Susteren, Nancy Grace and Dateline about it in the hopes of getting some much-needed national coverage. Even if 48 Hours could air their original broadcast of the episode they showed in 1992 and 1997, that would at least get it on national TV again.

I stopped short of writing to Janis McCall about the Vidocq Society, which I brought up as a possible suggestion in an earlier post on here. It's a touchy situation, with her believing Stacy is alive, to communicate with her about contacting them, although they could approach it as a missing persons case and tactfully handle it like a "disappearance" rather than looking for a body. Since a family member of the missing person has to be the one to touch base with the Vidocq Society, I may still try to contact her about it because I think they are a very reputable organization and I just keep thinking if some other outside entity gets involved in this, things may finally start to move forward.
 
How come Sgt. Mike Owen doesn't mention the Streeter-Levitt family and their thoughts on the dig? Shouldn't they have a say so in this considering they have two family members missing?
 
What color do you personally believe the van was that abducted the women on 6/7/92? It is not an incidental matter. The van has been variously described as "moss green", "dark brown", "dirty white" (or tea stained), and "dark blue."

The police's "official" version is that it was "moss green." I do not concur. I believe it was "dirty white/tea stained" rather than the "moss green" van displayed on the grounds of the Springfield police station for several months.

Which begs the question. Why was the color "moss green" the "official" color the police settled on, when the best evidence was that it was more likely the "dirty white or tea stained" colored vehicle seen for three weeks prior to the abductions? If anyone wishes to debate the issue, I would be delighted.
 
Missouri Mule said:
What color do you personally believe the van was that abducted the women on 6/7/92? It is not an incidental matter. The van has been variously described as "moss green", "dark brown", "dirty white" (or tea stained), and "dark blue."

The police's "official" version is that it was "moss green." I do not concur. I believe it was "dirty white/tea stained" rather than the "moss green" van displayed on the grounds of the Springfield police station for several months.

Which begs the question. Why was the color "moss green" the "official" color the police settled on, when the best evidence was that it was more likely the "dirty white or tea stained" colored vehicle seen for three weeks prior to the abductions? If anyone wishes to debate the issue, I would be delighted.
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I believe it was the dirty white/tea stained color too. I'm almost positive that is what I had read in the earliest versions of the newspaper accounts. That was also one of the reasons I kept leaning toward some kind of cover-up because I couldn't understand why in the "official police version" they said it was moss green.
 
liz325 said:
I believe it was the dirty white/tea stained color too. I'm almost positive that is what I had read in the earliest versions of the newspaper accounts. That was also one of the reasons I kept leaning toward some kind of cover-up because I couldn't understand why in the "official police version" they said it was moss green.
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Thank you. That makes it 2-0 in favor of the dirtywhite/tea stained van.

It is my understanding that Mike Owen (formerly or is still with "internal investigations) is the lead investigator of this case at the current time. That being the case, perhaps there is some indication that an actual cover-up is involved here. And I suspect it goes a good deal higher up the food chain as well. I won't go into the reasons why I believe that to be so here on an open forum such as this and I also have reason to believe that "prying eyes" have an unnatural interest in this case.

But what is the motive here? The only thing that I can think of is that it must have something to do with money. And that inevitably calls up the suspicion of drugs. But I do not believe, nor have I ever seen any evidence that the victims had any involvement with drugs; certainly not Stacy. But there was some reason that those victims were taken from that home near the early twilight never to be seen again. Although I have entertained the view that a serial killer might be involved I no longer believe it to be so and I also do not believe that Cox was the perpetrator. What could the motive have been that was so powerful that Suzie and her mother must dissappear forever? That's the $64,000 question.
 
A description of my vision with Stacy McCall can be found at:
http://users.1st.net/mwells/Visions.htm

There are some odds & ends that are not described in the vision that probably should be. First, Stacy wasn't kneeling in prayer on my bed. She was kneeling in prayer on the floor next to my bed. She was positioned between my dresser and my bed. When I looked to my right, not only could I see Stacy; I could also see my digital clock on my bedroom wall. It gave the time in red lights. I knew that the vision was taking place at just after 4 a.m., because I could see the "4". Stacy's head was blocking the last two digits.

Stacy's hair is very long and it is cut into a "V Pattern" that comes to within one inch from the bottom hem of her shirt. Her hair is not long enough to touch the bottom hem. The "V Pattern" coupled with the way her hair flows off the back of her head toward her shoulders; creates a "diamond shape" that I observed.

In the vision, I wrote that I could clearly see the fuzzballs on her shirt. The word "fuzz" is slang for Police. At the end of the vision, Stacy turned as if she were saying "NO!" and then she disappeared. I found it very interesting when the Springfield Police told the public they didn't want to dig. Very interesting.
 
I hope this case gets solved soon. Whether or not they find the women in a slab of concrete or buried in the woods, or hopefully alive and well, as unlikely as that seems after all this time, so we can find out how wrong all these conspiracy theories and visions were. But, I guess everyone will just find new interpretations for them. Like Nostrodamus' predictions the events are predicted only in hindsight. Nobody knows what the hell the guy is talking about until some bad event takes place and they tie it back to one of his 'visions'. This thread is becoming downright silly. There is a real investigation behind all this X-Files stuff. Lets leave the Ghost Whispering to Jennifer Love Hewitt.
 
miles_draken said:
I hope this case gets solved soon. Whether or not they find the women in a slab of concrete or buried in the woods, or hopefully alive and well, as unlikely as that seems after all this time, so we can find out how wrong all these conspiracy theories and visions were. But, I guess everyone will just find new interpretations for them. Like Nostrodamus' predictions the events are predicted only in hindsight. Nobody knows what the hell the guy is talking about until some bad event takes place and they tie it back to one of his 'visions'. This thread is becoming downright silly. There is a real investigation behind all this X-Files stuff. Lets leave the Ghost Whispering to Jennifer Love Hewitt.
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I agree milesdraken.
 
laini said:
I agree milesdraken.
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It's not for lack of names and information. That's the second biggest mystery surrounding this case. Anything that goes to the SPD is like feeding a "black hole." The only thing I can figure is that the prosecutor is trying to wrap up a slam-dunk case. They will make movies about this for years if it is ultimately solved. You would not believe the stuff that is known about this case that is not in the public domain.
 
Miles Draken said -- in part -- "so we can find out how wrong all these conspiracy theories and visions were. But, I guess everyone will just find new interpretations for them. Like Nostrodamus' predictions the events are predicted only in hindsight."

Guess you watched the episode on Nostradamus over the week-end too! However, Ken Young's 'vision' has not been left up to humanity to 'interpret.' His vision have been interpreted, not in 'hindsight' as you so boldly accuse, but far in advance of the discovery of these women. The location has already been named, along with the time period. Notice he said he could see the number [4] in his vision. April is the fourth month of the year. That's when the first scan took place.
There will be no 'new interpretations' for anything that is posted on my web site concerning this case or any other case.
A 'prediction' is something given in advance. If it pan's out [comes true] then it becomes a fulfillment of a prediction. There's enough information posted concerning this vision, and enough people have read it to know if it 'comes true, then there's no 'hindsight' involved in it.
I designed an entire web site because of this very type of accusation. I cannot speak for anyone else, but I do NOT have a history or a reputation for coming along after the fact and claiming credit for other people's work. That's not my style.
And as far as everyone getting tired of this type of conversation -- what do you have contribute?
The "Stacy Vision Theory" is the best bet in nearly 15 years. It gives more answers than anything before, or since.
And, lest you forget -- there's been two 'scientific' scans conducted in the area, that seem to confirm there's something there, so I wouldn't say everything is 'psychic.' We've already verified the 'psychic' portions, and that's no longer debatable. What Miles Draken [and others] are bickering over at this point, and trying to debunk is actually scientifically accepted results that are used in many, many areas for various purposes!
Pray tell -- what will you say when the vision, the interpretation and the tests pan-out, and the women are precisely where we said they are?
 
I'd be willing to bet my X-Files DVD collection that this vision doesn't lead to bodies in the parking garage. And hasn't that been a theory for years before Ken's vision? The police say there isn't any proof that there are bodies underneath there. Personally, I think all of you who believe this should start a fund raiser to open the ground up and see what is showing up on this guys GPR. And I have read this vision in detail at the website and it's vague and open to interpretation. The problem with interpretation is anyone can make it fit their particulair theory. Why hasn't a single psychic won the lottery by the way? If I could see the future I'd certainly see the numbers for the next drawing. And don't try to tell me that psychics aren't in it for the money, I know that isn't true.

On a lighter note:

Do you know how many psychics it takes to screw in a light bulb??

Two, but nobody has figured out how to get them inside the light bulb yet.
 
Missouri Mule, I'm sorry I missed your post. I do believe there are things pertinent to the investigation that the police have withheld, they do in every investigation. I don't believe there are three people who could keep a conspiracy quiet, let alone an entire department. The FBI CIA and the Mafia aren't hiding a conspiracy over Kennedy's assassination. It just isn't plausible that the Springfield PD would be involved in a conspiracy over this case.
 
miles_draken said:
Missouri Mule, I'm sorry I missed your post. I do believe there are things pertinent to the investigation that the police have withheld, they do in every investigation. I don't believe there are three people who could keep a conspiracy quiet, let alone an entire department. The FBI CIA and the Mafia aren't hiding a conspiracy over Kennedy's assassination. It just isn't plausible that the Springfield PD would be involved in a conspiracy over this case.
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I don't believe in conspiracies either. I actually believe that Oswald acted alone although I had earlier toyed with the idea there were others involved. I was very much emotionally wrapped up in Kennedy's murder as I was only about 18 at the time. But after time and the facts have come out Oswald had the means, the motive, and the opportunity. I consider the case closed.

As to this crime, we have two elements of the crime, the means and the opportunity but the motive is not known for a certainty. That's where I have centered my thoughts for the past 15 years. I had developed my own theory of what happened but it had one big hole in it and it was the $800 left in Sherrill's purse. I have largely abandoned that theory.

What I think happened is that the crime was related to the grave robbing business but not directly. And I also think that two vans were involved; one that left town immediately with the women and a second one as a decoy to confuse the investigation. The most credible account was that of the dirty white van that cruised the neighborhood some three weeks prior to the abduction. But instead we get this official version of a "moss green" van business and a replica was parked on the SPD grounds for several months. I think the whole business of the moss green van was just part of a deception to throw sand in the investigator's eyes and confuse and befuddle the public. The timeline simply makes no sense for that van to have surfaced around the time when it should have been long gone. That has nagged at me for 15 years. There had to be two vans.

And I also happen to believe that the bodies are not to be found under the slab at the parking garage either. I did however sign the two petitions in order to get it off that angle and where it belongs. I have a some ideas where the bodies are actually buried and I have reason to believe the police do as well. But trying to get information out of them is like trying to strike gold in our front lawns. They are not talking. Not even to the press. Not about this case. No sir buddy. Not about this case. It's off limits.
 
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