Theory #2: Family Abduction by George Waters with George Brody, Part 2

InterestedNHelping said:

I had another thought on the guy, and perhaps Sherlock or Dr. Doogie can help with this one...in the book, it was written that many different alias' were used while the two men resided in SF. It may be possible that between all of the different alias' we could cipher out a name that might be credible...do you know what all the alias names are from the BFH? Thanks!

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Brody
George Brody
George Bee (B)
"Bobby" - this one may be the most likely real first name

Waters
George Waters
He registered at the hotel as "Walters", but that may have been an error by the clerk

Kukoda
Margaret Kukoda
Mary Kukoda
Mary Kay (K)

Dr. Doogie said:

Brody
George Brody
George Bee (B)
"Bobby" - this one may be the most likely real first name

Waters
George Waters
He registered at the hotel as "Walters", but that may have been an error by the clerk

Kukoda
Margaret Kukoda
Mary Kukoda
Mary Kay (K)

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Is it thought he is of English decent or European decent with a name which could have been shortened or changed to sound more American ( considering many families did so back then) Any clue? I recall some old posts thinking he may have been hungarian.

Cubby said:

I recall some old posts thinking he may have been hungarian.

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I think the Hungarian theory came from the fact that Kukoda's family was from Hungary and that immigrants in the first half of the 20th century tended to live and socialize with people of similar ethnic backgrounds.

Hi--I have looked and looked but cannot seem to find it. Do we have any pictures of Margaret posted here? The only reason I ask is because there is an interesting thread in cold cases, and the fact that the missing woman is a nurse AND went to San Francisco in 1939 or so rang bells for me.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1473832&posted=1#post1473832

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b6d933b3127cce8b6ffa8df42100000016108EbNXLdoxam

Here you go Jules. The eyes don't seem right, but then again the newspaper Pic of MK looks like she has tons of dark eye shadow on. The curly dark hair looks the same.

ETA: I think the credit for that link goes to GraceBlue.

In researching Black Dahlia site www.blackdahliasolution.org/ I came across a cryptographic interpretation of writing by an Ed Burns aka Maurice Clements, William Heirens, George Murman and notices one picture of George Brody and his "philosophy" with the same type of writing. It seems that George Brody may also have been some of those listed above. Reports suggest that he was hospitalized after his wife killed self and baby daughter. Perhaps , if this is the same person, it might account with his obsession with Anna and her father. What does anyone think of this theory?

NJshrink said:

In researching Black Dahlia site www.blackdahliasolution.org/ I came across a cryptographic interpretation of writing by an Ed Burns aka Maurice Clements, William Heirens, George Murman and notices one picture of George Brody and his "philosophy" with the same type of writing. It seems that George Brody may also have been some of those listed above. Reports suggest that he was hospitalized after his wife killed self and baby daughter. Perhaps , if this is the same person, it might account with his obsession with Anna and her father. What does anyone think of this theory?

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I'm not sure what you mean. You think George Brody could be the same person as this Ed Burns? According to the link you posted, he committed suicide two years after the Black Dalia murder. around 1949. I didn't see anywhere that mentioned a wife. Could you offer more information?

I have briefly, due to the volumnes of info out there, researched this idea you presented. It holds water with many, many aspects, it does have amazing correlations in so many ways! it would leave us with several theories...GB was alive during this time and may have been the guy, though unlikely because he was too 'self absorbed' from what I hear, to not tell everybody he did it, and he was too lazy to actually do anything himself.
Or, he was a copycat, and had a secret to hide, because he may have thought the guy was smart, and he tried to be 'smart' too.
Or, he was also studied in many areas of the same ideas, like the akashic records, numerology and also cryptology and he has many similarities, but came from a different background.
There are ALOT of theories beyond this, and the similarities are worth exploration, but the actual info is very elaborated these days, though there is are some,( very few) sites that are not posting erroneous info. The actual police file is online somewhere, but its FBI and was not really their case, so only some original info is in it.

You have some excellent sleuthing there, and possiblity of connection is there, but whether or not we could ever figure it out, since sooo many have tried and there are so many suspects is another thing. the details of Brody and the murder are interestingly connected and intertwined with so many things, it makes it a crazy research project and undertaking, whew! What a possibility!
Its all those small details that are so intriguing, makes me want to learn more, and I am doing so...wouldn't that be somethin? LOL...I hope he's not, this story is very disturbing, but stranger things have happened!
Thanks NJShrink, you got me thinkin...

I noticed something strange the other day when I was following up on my "Jonestown" theory. As you may remember I have referred back to a particular sub family (The Brady's) that I feel may have some ties to the 2 Georges. What is weird is all of a sudden there is an anonymous "In Memory" posted for one of the children.

Mother: Michaeleen Patricia Brady, b. 5-14-43
Daughter: Georgiann Patricia Brady, b. 12-23-65
Daughter: Michele Margaret Brady, b. 12-2-66 (Less than a year after Georgiann)

Michele Margaret is the only one the anonymous poster wrote to. Why only her? If it where the missing father of the 2 girls why didn't he write something for both daughters? If it where any relative, why not the whole family, why this one particular girl? The only thing I can think of is my theory is right and they are not related to Michaeleen nor any of her 4 other adult siblings that also went to Jonestown. Matter of fact, Michele Margaret Brady is the only one in the entire extended family of 9 that went with any "In Memory" posted.

Michaeleen is listed as a Hair dresser and a part time pre-school teacher before Jonestown. She also had a child named Elizabeth who was born and died on 12-16-64 (12 mo and 1 week before Georgiann)

As I read the actual FBI file, the only thing I keep thinking is that Brody probably loved a mystery, and had read the story, or was in some way loosly connected via the media, or his job (?) and he loved pretending a mystery...just a guess here...

As for the story of the Jonestown idea, I looked into that some time ago, and I cannot remember why I didn't think it matched up, but if you think you have something, keep going. Often times, people will put those internet flowers on a case, when they are researching something, and feel that a positive note will be of spiritual importance...I think that you can email the poster, then maybe it won't be as strange as it appears...

InterestedNHelping said:

...As for the story of the Jonestown idea, I looked into that some time ago, and I cannot remember why I didn't think it matched up, but if you think you have something, keep going. Often times, people will put those internet flowers on a case, when they are researching something, and feel that a positive note will be of spiritual importance...I think that you can email the poster, then maybe it won't be as strange as it appears...

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I can't e-mail the poster, they left it as anonymous. Yes it could be anyone...just a well wisher, but it is rather odd. I have eased up on this quest with Jonestown as we all await the DNA results, but there are so many coincidences that I can not put it behind me....yet. I've entertained several ideas on what happened, but usually dismiss it quickly when I uncover evidence to not support the theory...(Like the Hyde deal.) It took just a few hours to realize they where not the same....but so far, I can not find anything to drop this...I'm praying DNA results will surely put an end to this madness of mine!

I know what you mean with the madness, LOL...even if C is Anna, no matter how she was taken, the mystery will remain, you realize, because no one knows who GB actually was....YET...
I can't stand it, I gotta figure it out! I have done this where it seemed impossible before, so with all these folks like you working on it, we may come up with the answer, which may just shed more light on what happened overall...I can't see GB doing anything himself, IF he was involved it was to keep his hands clean probably, but then, he may have been smarter than we are giving him credit for...keep going with your work, you may be on to something.
I can't seem to find anything that can give us a real height on GB,( I do understand what Annasmom said though) the pics with him and GW seem to appear that they are closer in height than a man of 5'4", at least that is my opinion at this point, I haven't really ruled out anyone by height, at least not yet!

Here is something I have determined, and would like to see what others think...I do not know if this idea has been covered before, but I don't think so...
I have noticed that when GB wrote something down, he often had trouble with his vowels, as if he used another language, mixing up o, u, mostly. I noticed specifically, that on the chart that is written, he must have copied it down until he had no spelling errors, because there does not seem to be any write overs, like he has on other things, that he only wrote once, like his photo note. I think it is very possible that he was bilingual, maybe German, because of this. I wondered if it was because he had Always been bilingual, otherwise, if a language is learned later, we tend to not make those grammatical errors. He seems to have it really 'ground' into him, and his writing, which may account for some background on him, which appears to me, to be German...any thoughts?

Annasmom said that the "flow chart" and "the plan" where both written by Waters. Brody would dictate to him and he would write.

That would explain why I thought his handwriting was so different when he got older, lol, I knew about the plan, but thought he did the chart.. makes you wonder why he never wrote things down...I can't bellieve if George was his name, why on earth he couldn't spell it without mistake on his own photo...sure tells you he doens't seem to be a "George"...look up close at the photo spelling, see what you think

I am not certain that George Brody is the one involved with the Black Dahlia theory but I do think that the oddity of his writing (which some believe is a crytographic code) bears striking similarities. Note the way he signed his "eternity" picture. Is annasmom 100% certain that the "philosophy" was written by Waters? Even if it were dictated to him, the lines and arrows suggest the same oddity of the Ed/George person in the Dahlia cite. Please also read the history of the Ed/George person suggested in this cite and see if any of the geographical and/or time references overlap. Just hypothesizing!

Again, I am just thinking out loud. Yes, I am a shrink so I often have to think as someone psychotic may. The Ed Burns/Barnes/George Murman who wrote to the LA police may not have actually been involved in the Black Dahlia's demise. What we seem to know about the letter writer is that his mom may have been named Esther Gold..something. It seems to be in the FBI file. Perhaps and I say perhaps his seeming lack of a job was because he may have been an abortionist with perhaps some medical training. Remember abortion only became legal in the early 70's. His family, if I remember correctly, was from Europe and Jewish. There were some hypotheses that aft he returned from the military with a psychiatric condition. His first wife presumably killed their child and self. One does not know if this is true. If this Burnes/Barnes is Brody it is also said that he abandoned his second wife in 1946 ish. There may have been a ruse about suiciding as the LAPD may have been hot on his tail as an abortionist. He may have then resurfaced as George Brody. Along another track, there were a number of unsolved shooting/slashing murders between 1946 and 47 called the Moonlight Murders of Texarkana. I don't know if there may be any ties to that. Also, if anyone can tell me more about George Waters family, where he came from, his parents, etc. that might help organize how and why he and George Brody became friends. I have a vague feeling they may have had some earlier connection. When one is psychotic as George Brody probably was, their thinking is often tangential and associative. While the "Effie" name may seem to have number value, it may also mean something else. Any thoughts or information?

George W. was a Princeton grad that went Columbia Med school. His family were missionaries that were at one point interred in a concentration camp in the south pacific during WW2. I think this information is in my Mom's book on this site or in the background details of the case

Annasbro said:

George W. was a Princeton grad that went Columbia Med school. His family were missionaries that were at one point interred in a concentration camp in the south pacific during WW2. I think this information is in my Mom's book on this site or in the background details of the case

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A bit off the point. Since you are Anna's brother. I hope you don't mind me asking this. You dont have to answer if you are not comfortable answering this but how are YOU feeling? All of us on here are expressing anxiety, excitement, nervousness, etc etc. What is going through your mind as we wait for the results? I am sure a lot!

I think Doogie took the links for the book down while the current situation is happening... I know I still have it on one of my PCs somewhere... if you want to email me NJshrink, I'll share with you...