Thank you! What is definitely needed is a forensic pathologist. In fact, the Nichols' family member recently said they have been told the difference between a regular doctor and a forensic pathologist is likened to the difference between a baby doctor and a brain surgeon.
NM NM - Patty Pritz, 14, & Mattie Restine, 13, Carlsbad, 11 Aug 1961 - #1
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Thank you! What is definitely needed is a forensic pathologist. In fact, the Nichols' family member recently said they have been told the difference between a regular doctor and a forensic pathologist is likened to the difference between a baby doctor and a brain surgeon.
The trouble with DNA is we can have a ton of it and still have NOTHING. We absolutely MUST have some DNA from the killer and taken from one of the girls, most likely Patty.
Without the ability to complete this link, or as I've put it before, connect these dots...we have nothing for this case.:banghead::banghead:
I hope everyone can see this and realize its importance. Without this connection we are like a dog chasing his own tail and the best forensic pathologist in the land would have nothing to work with.
Without the ability to complete this link, or as I've put it before, connect these dots...we have nothing for this case.:banghead::banghead:
I hope everyone can see this and realize its importance. Without this connection we are like a dog chasing his own tail and the best forensic pathologist in the land would have nothing to work with.
You raise a good and, I think, valid point here, J-66. It is so easy for all of us to forget the way a court of law looks at things in a criminal case is often far different than how we might view something. The difference can be very frustrating.
Keep us on the path.
As I recall, NM plates back in 1961 were pretty drab...red on white or black on white. Not very imaginative. I recall being somewhat shocked when N.M. changed to the bright yellow plates. I can't tell you the year it happened but it was long after 1961. We should be able to find this info on the internet pretty easily. In fact, I'll volunteer to look.
justthinkin
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I just called Wichita County, and they don't archive their auto registrations. Seems like I remember from working on another case that there is no way to trace an auto from that time period, something about them only having a five digit vin number back then that didn't give the model or style of the vehicle.
Unless that vehicle happens to be in existence and registered as an antique auto, I think we're out of luck trying to track the registration. That would also mean we couldn't tie Nichols to a particular 53 Chevy unless someone in that family has any idea of how or where that car was disposed of, and it has a clear trail to follow. Doubtful at best.
If it was still in Nichols possession upon his death, it might have gotten handed down to a grandson or granddaughter through the inheriting parent. Nichols did have one son who lived in Wichita Falls. Question is did he have any children of driving age at the time of Nichol's death?
Legacy, is this something you could find out via Ancestry.com? We can then see if there's any direction to go with this info.
Unless that vehicle happens to be in existence and registered as an antique auto, I think we're out of luck trying to track the registration. That would also mean we couldn't tie Nichols to a particular 53 Chevy unless someone in that family has any idea of how or where that car was disposed of, and it has a clear trail to follow. Doubtful at best.
If it was still in Nichols possession upon his death, it might have gotten handed down to a grandson or granddaughter through the inheriting parent. Nichols did have one son who lived in Wichita Falls. Question is did he have any children of driving age at the time of Nichol's death?
Legacy, is this something you could find out via Ancestry.com? We can then see if there's any direction to go with this info.
Well that lowers our million to one odds considerably, doesn't it? Not sounding good - but thanks so much for your efforts.
I was told there was a son who also lived in Wichita Falls, but that he died before Nichols did. They were both carpenters according to the family member, although I recall his obituary stated he was a blacksmith by trade. The family member indicates that he did all sorts of construction type work and blacksmithing could have been one of the jobs he did.
Another of the reasons for suspicion of Nichols was that he got rid of the vehicle he was driving at the time of the murders soon after. Unfortunately, no one in the family knows what happened to the vehicle or how he disposed of it. After visiting more with the family member it was determined from old paperwork still in the family that a replacement vehicle was purchased Sep-Oct of the following year. The next vehicle Nichols owned was a 1950 Plymouth. The sales receipt shows the vehicle was paid for by Nichols' daughter who lived in Carlsbad. The vehicle was purchased for $110.00 with the receipt showing "paid in full." Although I have not seen the paperwork myself, it is indicated that two dates 9-20-62 and 10-2-62 show on the paperwork, which I assume is a bill of sale from the dealership where it was purchased.
The family dynamics surrounding Nichols were such that he would not have been around many of his family members throughout the years. Since there were some suspicions of molestation within even his own family, the grandchildren were warned to stay away from him if he was ever around. The family pretty much sheltered their young from him. He was not well thought of within his family because of some dark family history and how he treated his own children as they were growing up. Out of deep respect for this family, let me leave it at that and suffice it to say that Nichols was not a nice man.
Accordingly, he was a cunning man and could be very gentlemanly in his approach of people. But beneath this exterior, he was described as being very mean and a child predator.
I was told there was a son who also lived in Wichita Falls, but that he died before Nichols did. They were both carpenters according to the family member, although I recall his obituary stated he was a blacksmith by trade. The family member indicates that he did all sorts of construction type work and blacksmithing could have been one of the jobs he did.
Another of the reasons for suspicion of Nichols was that he got rid of the vehicle he was driving at the time of the murders soon after. Unfortunately, no one in the family knows what happened to the vehicle or how he disposed of it. After visiting more with the family member it was determined from old paperwork still in the family that a replacement vehicle was purchased Sep-Oct of the following year. The next vehicle Nichols owned was a 1950 Plymouth. The sales receipt shows the vehicle was paid for by Nichols' daughter who lived in Carlsbad. The vehicle was purchased for $110.00 with the receipt showing "paid in full." Although I have not seen the paperwork myself, it is indicated that two dates 9-20-62 and 10-2-62 show on the paperwork, which I assume is a bill of sale from the dealership where it was purchased.
The family dynamics surrounding Nichols were such that he would not have been around many of his family members throughout the years. Since there were some suspicions of molestation within even his own family, the grandchildren were warned to stay away from him if he was ever around. The family pretty much sheltered their young from him. He was not well thought of within his family because of some dark family history and how he treated his own children as they were growing up. Out of deep respect for this family, let me leave it at that and suffice it to say that Nichols was not a nice man.
Accordingly, he was a cunning man and could be very gentlemanly in his approach of people. But beneath this exterior, he was described as being very mean and a child predator.
ProudSolver
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I was curious about something. If there are any bullets/casings found, what is the possibility of them having any amount of DNA on them to compare to that of Mattie and Patty? I'd assume they would be covered in quite a few inches of dirt/rock and would have been rained on hundreds of times and the chances of actually being able to obtain a DNA sample is not quite feasible. Please don't take this as being negative, I'm only trying to put this together in my mind properly.
If any bullets/casings are found in that area, there would need to be a definite tie from them to the girls. Otherwise they could have been from someone shooting at coyotes, rabbits, etc. (I know because of the terrain someone said rabbits were not in that area, but I'm not familiar with what animals would be out there).
There is also the chain of custody. If someone were to find evidence, law enforcement would have to collect it so the chain of custody is known.
What about POI's and weapons they had/family still has? Out of all of the correspondence with others throughout the years, does anyone know who had what types of guns?
I hope I did not offend anyone with this post as that is not my intention. I'm just trying to get this out there for some input.
ProudSolver
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I have a cell phone number here for the AG's right hand man. It's somewhere in one of my notebooks and right now my mind is drawing a blank on his name. If you're intersted, let me know and I will search for it. Each time I've talked to him, he's been very helpful with issues I've discussed with him. When I've had to call him back, he always answers, too.
Sunshine 1950
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Earl Nichols 53 Chevy Papers that the family had.
Sunshine 1950
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Nichols car papers
Sunshine 1950
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Sunshine 1950
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It looks like this sale was for an Oklahoma car...maybe someone knows how to look that up.
ProudSolver
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I did a little research this evening and found that 1953 Chevy's came in the following solid colors and two-tone combinations. To view the colors, you can see them here http://www.53classicchevy.com/body-colors.html
Solid Colors For The 1953 Chevy:
Mayland Black
Driftwood Gray
Dusk Gray
Surf Green
Woodland Green
Regatta Blue
Horizon Blue
Sahara Beige
Madeira Maroon
Target Red
Campus Cream
Sungold
Saddle Brown
India Ivory
1953 Chevrolet Two-Tone Combinations:
Dusk Gray / Driftwood Gray
Woodland Green / Surf Green
Regatta Blue / Horizon Blue
India Ivory / Horizon Blue
India Ivory / Regatta Blue
Campus Cream / Woodland Green
Woodland Green / Campus Cream
Saddle Brown / Sahara Beige
Sahara Beige / Saddle Brown
India Ivory / Sungold
Target Red / India Ivory
Solid Colors For The 1953 Chevy:
Mayland Black
Driftwood Gray
Dusk Gray
Surf Green
Woodland Green
Regatta Blue
Horizon Blue
Sahara Beige
Madeira Maroon
Target Red
Campus Cream
Sungold
Saddle Brown
India Ivory
1953 Chevrolet Two-Tone Combinations:
Dusk Gray / Driftwood Gray
Woodland Green / Surf Green
Regatta Blue / Horizon Blue
India Ivory / Horizon Blue
India Ivory / Regatta Blue
Campus Cream / Woodland Green
Woodland Green / Campus Cream
Saddle Brown / Sahara Beige
Sahara Beige / Saddle Brown
India Ivory / Sungold
Target Red / India Ivory
justthinkin
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Wow, I can't believe the family still had these records. Frantastic! This gives us a starting point in looking for that car.
Hmmm. How would you dispose of a car if it'd been used in a murder? I can think of a few ways.
1. Remove the plates, all papers concerning ownership, drive it somewhere, and burn it.
2. Sink it in a lake.
3. Drive it out of state and sell it.
I'm guessing the 50 Plymouth was in better shape than the 53 Chevy Nichols owned. There's no mention of a trade-in. Ok, I got it, maybe. Two separate deals. Nichols agrees that his daughter will purchase the Plymouth if the dealer will buy Nichols 53 Chevy. So Nichols sells the Chevy on a separate piece of paper which he disposes of at his convenience. Daughter is the one buying the Plymouth so Nichols doesn't even appear on the paperwork for it.
Here's something I found pertaining to vins. I've looked for info on what I mentioned earlier about not being able to trace vehicles with a 5 digit vin number, but I can't find it, and I've since found differing info.
Excerpt from: http://www.greatoldcars.com/decoding.htm#VIN
VIN Before 1950
Prior to 1950, VINs only acted as a serialization. The first characters of the VIN often identified the Make and Model. The remainder of the numbers identified the model year. Some manufacturers identified the assembly plant and the number of cylinders that the engine had.
VIN from 1950 to 1980
Around 1950 American automobile manufacturers began stamping and casting identifying numbers on cars and their parts. The obvious purpose was to give an accurate description of the vehicle when mass production numbers were starting to climb in very significant numbers. As years progressed, manufacturers increased the scope of the VIN. Information available varied from manufacturer to manufacturer and from year to year. As we progressed into the late 1950s, 1960s and 1970s manufacturer's VIN information increased. The type of information often available included year, make, model, body style, engine and what assembly plant that the car was manufactured at. In addition the Body Plate included codes for paint, trim, rear end, transmission, price class, body type, build date, etc.
Hmmm. How would you dispose of a car if it'd been used in a murder? I can think of a few ways.
1. Remove the plates, all papers concerning ownership, drive it somewhere, and burn it.
2. Sink it in a lake.
3. Drive it out of state and sell it.
I'm guessing the 50 Plymouth was in better shape than the 53 Chevy Nichols owned. There's no mention of a trade-in. Ok, I got it, maybe. Two separate deals. Nichols agrees that his daughter will purchase the Plymouth if the dealer will buy Nichols 53 Chevy. So Nichols sells the Chevy on a separate piece of paper which he disposes of at his convenience. Daughter is the one buying the Plymouth so Nichols doesn't even appear on the paperwork for it.
Here's something I found pertaining to vins. I've looked for info on what I mentioned earlier about not being able to trace vehicles with a 5 digit vin number, but I can't find it, and I've since found differing info.
Excerpt from: http://www.greatoldcars.com/decoding.htm#VIN
VIN Before 1950
Prior to 1950, VINs only acted as a serialization. The first characters of the VIN often identified the Make and Model. The remainder of the numbers identified the model year. Some manufacturers identified the assembly plant and the number of cylinders that the engine had.
VIN from 1950 to 1980
Around 1950 American automobile manufacturers began stamping and casting identifying numbers on cars and their parts. The obvious purpose was to give an accurate description of the vehicle when mass production numbers were starting to climb in very significant numbers. As years progressed, manufacturers increased the scope of the VIN. Information available varied from manufacturer to manufacturer and from year to year. As we progressed into the late 1950s, 1960s and 1970s manufacturer's VIN information increased. The type of information often available included year, make, model, body style, engine and what assembly plant that the car was manufactured at. In addition the Body Plate included codes for paint, trim, rear end, transmission, price class, body type, build date, etc.
justthinkin
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Hoyt Used Cars was located at 3209 Jacksboro Hwy in Wichita Falls. Y'all aren't gonna believe this but there is still an auto sales place in business at that location, Rogers Motor Company.
Oh this is just too good to be true. Lone Star Motor Company is still in operation at 1403 30th Street
Wichita Falls, TX 76302-1010
:woohoo:
That yoohoo is probably going to turn into :banghead:
Oh this is just too good to be true. Lone Star Motor Company is still in operation at 1403 30th Street
Wichita Falls, TX 76302-1010
:woohoo:
That yoohoo is probably going to turn into :banghead:
Sunshine 1950
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I should have posted the papers about these cars before now. I just didn't know if they were worth anything.
You know Investigator Richard Sillas told me that one of Nichols cars was blue, and the other was green.
I wonder if he just told me that to get me to stop talking about the cars?
If we can't find out the answers on these cars...then how does he know the colors of the cars? I just believe he was blowing me off.
justthinkin
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I am not making much headway on the motor, serial or permanent ID number on the 53 Chevy. LAA 191808 That's not a vin number nor a model number listed on the transfer registration receipt.
I have found the LAA part on a description of a 1953 Chevrolet engine serial number. But there's a problem. Those only have 4 numbers in addition to the letters, and Nichols's vehicle has 6.
Now vehicle serial numbers for that model year did carry 6 numbers, but then the alphabetical portion doesn't match up. Something is just not right about that number on Nichols car.
The vehicle is a 2dr. 150 series model passenger car, manufactured in Atlanta, GA. What's not clear is whether it's the 2 dr. sedan, the 2 dr. business coupe or the 2 dr. club coupe. I'm guessing it's the 2 dr. sedan because many more of this model were made than either of the coupes. Also, if Nichols was up to no good, he would have wanted a car that had less identifying features.
Here's a link to the info I found. http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/chevyresto/53008.htm
Go to bottom of page & click on next page. It will show you the various series of numbers and letters that were used in identifying the 53 model year. You should be able to see what I mean about the number being at odds with known ways of identifying this year model Chevy.
I have found the LAA part on a description of a 1953 Chevrolet engine serial number. But there's a problem. Those only have 4 numbers in addition to the letters, and Nichols's vehicle has 6.
Now vehicle serial numbers for that model year did carry 6 numbers, but then the alphabetical portion doesn't match up. Something is just not right about that number on Nichols car.
The vehicle is a 2dr. 150 series model passenger car, manufactured in Atlanta, GA. What's not clear is whether it's the 2 dr. sedan, the 2 dr. business coupe or the 2 dr. club coupe. I'm guessing it's the 2 dr. sedan because many more of this model were made than either of the coupes. Also, if Nichols was up to no good, he would have wanted a car that had less identifying features.
Here's a link to the info I found. http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/chevyresto/53008.htm
Go to bottom of page & click on next page. It will show you the various series of numbers and letters that were used in identifying the 53 model year. You should be able to see what I mean about the number being at odds with known ways of identifying this year model Chevy.
justthinkin
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No, he probably told you that to get you to realize neither color matched up with the descriptions of eye-witness accounts. Eye witnesses are often unreliable. As a LEO, Sillas should know that.
Here's a quote from Wikipedia.
"Eyewitness identification evidence is the leading cause of wrongful conviction in the United States. Of the more than 200 people exonerated by way of DNA evidence in the US, over 75% were wrongfully convicted on the basis of erroneous eyewitness identification evidence."
What this means to me is that all witness statements must initially be taken into consideration. A lead or a tip can't be discounted when your other eye witness accounts are not in agreement. IIRC, we have 3 different witnesses with 3 different descriptions. One saw a tan and white car, one saw pink and white, and one saw a car that was all one color. Only one of these can be correct, and that's if it is INDEED correct. We don't know.
I followed Proudsolver's link above. In the right column advertisement for Ebay there is a 2 Door 1953 Chevrolet for sale - pretty rusty. When I looked at the description it says the vehicle is originally from Texas.
I know that the chances are more than remote, but I emailed the owner to ask about it. Nice person - and is going to check to see if more can be found on the origination location and the colors. It looks like it might have been the blue color, but who knows. It does give us an idea of what a vehicle that age could look like now. Still, it is in one piece.
I'll sure be taking a closer look at old Chevys from now on. Justthinkin' has even mentioned taking out a local ad in the Wichita Falls, TX paper after the holiday rush, in an attempt to locate it and traveling or calling all the scrap yards in the Wichita Falls, Texas area. Great ideas, justthinkin'. You are on the ball!
I know that the chances are more than remote, but I emailed the owner to ask about it. Nice person - and is going to check to see if more can be found on the origination location and the colors. It looks like it might have been the blue color, but who knows. It does give us an idea of what a vehicle that age could look like now. Still, it is in one piece.
I'll sure be taking a closer look at old Chevys from now on. Justthinkin' has even mentioned taking out a local ad in the Wichita Falls, TX paper after the holiday rush, in an attempt to locate it and traveling or calling all the scrap yards in the Wichita Falls, Texas area. Great ideas, justthinkin'. You are on the ball!
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