FL - 17-yo Teen Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #4

Nali87 said:

For the life of me I cannot understand the way the police handled this! Even apparant suicides are investigated because the case is close. You're telling me they took George Zimmerman at his word that HE was the VICTIM and let him walk away after shooting Trayvon? I must've missed something - that can't be it. God.

Click to expand...

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/frames/home_frames.html

For your convenience, the 911 call:
911 call 4:11
GZ: Hey, we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood and there's this real suspicious guy retreat view circle, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good or he's on drugs or something -- he's just walking around, looking about..
Dispatcher: ... and this guy's white, black, or hispanic?
GZ: He looks black..
Dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing?
GZ: Yeah, a dark hoodie, like a gray hoodie and either jeans or sweat pants and white tennis shoes. (unintelligible)..he's just staring
Dispatcher: Oh, he's just walking around the area?
GZ: Looking at all the houses
Dispathcher: oh ok
GZ: He's just staring at me.
Dispatcher: Ok you said it is 1111 (Patridge?) or 111?
GZ: That's the club house
Dispatcher: He's near the club house right now?
GZ: Yeah, now he's coming towards me
Dispatcher: Ok
GZ: He's got his hand in his waistband. Yeah, he's a black male
Dispatcher: Ok, how old would you say he is
GZ: He's got a button on his shirt
He's late teens
Dispatcher: Late teens, ok
GZ: Something's wrong with him. Yep, he's coming to check me out. He's got something in his hands, I don't know what his deal is.
Dispatcher: Just let me know if he does anything, ok
GZ: Just get an officer over him
Dispatcher: We've got them on the way, just let me know if this guy does anything else.
GZ: Ok
Pause
GZ: These a-holes, they always get away. Yep, when you come to the club house you come straight in and make a left ... actually, you would go past the club house.
Dispatcher: Oh, you say it's on the left hand side from the club house?
GZ: No, you go in, straight through the entrance and then you make a left, ummm, yeah you go straight in, don't turn and make a left. Ship, he's running.
Dispatcher: He's running, which way is he running?
GZ: Down towards the other entrance of the neighborhood.
Dispatcher: Ok, which entrance is that that he's heading towards?
GZ: The back entrance.
***Here is where the unclear slur is said to be uttered***
Dispatcher: Are you following him?
GZ: Yeah
Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.
GZ: Ok
Dispatcher: Alright sir, what is your name?
GZ: George, he ran...
Dispatcher: Alright George, what's your last name?
GZ: Zimmerman
Dispatcher: What's the phone number you're calling from?
GZ: Gives number
Dispatcher: Alright George, we do have them on the way, did you want to meet with the officers when they get out there?
GZ: Yeah
Dispatcher: Alright, where you gonna meet with them at?
GZ: Umm, if they come in through the, uh, street past the club house, straight past the club house, and then they go past the mailboxes, they'll see my truck
Dispatcher: What address are you parked in front of?
GZ: Umm, I don't know, it's a cut-through so I don't know the address.
Dispatcher: Do you live in the area?
GZ: Yeah
Dispatcher: What's your apartment number?
GZ: It's a home (gives incomplete address) - ah crap, I don't want to get the he** out, I don't know where this kid is
Dispatcher: Ok, do you just want to meet with them right near the mailboxes?
GZ: Yeah, that's fine.
Dispatcher: Alright George, I'll let them know to meet you out there, ok?
GZ: Could you have them call me and I'll tell them where I'm at?
Dispatcher: Ok, yeah, that's no problem
GZ: Do you need my number or you got it?
Dispatcher: Yeah, I've got it (repeats number)
GZ: Yeah, you got it
Dipatcher: Ok, no problem, I'll let 'em know to call you when they are there, yeah?
GZ: Thanks
Dispatcher: You're welcome

For forty five seconds, and no way of knowing how long before the witness called, you can hear yelling in the background of the witness 911 call here: http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/911/call3.wav

IzzyBlanche said:

Replying to this post from Ironhorse from locked thread:

Well unlike you with all due respect I'm not convinced Mr. Martin is a victim per se. Is he a victim in the sense he passed away in a mysterious yet tragic incident of that I have no doubt. Which is exactly why I attended the rally at Fort Mellon park and gave a donation. But lets put aside my generosity and focus on the case at hand:

I feel in the end this may well be something far less than what many have tired to make it out to be... Mr. Zimmerman goes to question an unknown individual and that individual chooses to hide his face and evade him. Meanwhile Mr. Martin unfamiliar with the neighborhood sees a stranger staring at him and feels uncomfortable pulls his hoodie up and begins to walk briskly away...From this point it seems like a twist of tragic errors on both parties fault lead to an incident, that could have easily been avoided. As a result of those missteps Mr. Martin lost his life and that's saddening.
__________________

BBM

What right did Mr. Zimmerman have to question Mr. Martin?

And why would it be wrong for someone having a total stranger questioning him choose to try to evade that person?

Click to expand...

Right. Not only that, but what 17 year old kid would not try to evade a large, strange man, following him at night? As I've stated before, we teach our kids never to let a stranger approach them in such a situation, let alone question them.

By the way, you can wrap quote tags around the post you are cutting and pasting from a locked thread to avoid confusion!!! Just highlight the selected text and hit the icon that looks like a cartoon quote thing, which is in between the hash sign and the picture icon.

I am really cell phone ignorant. How do these earbuds work and where is the microphone?

I'm lost, lol

Are we sure that these are Trayvon's phone records and not his girfriends?

In the video at around 1:13, it says that police have her records and her phone number but they never called. Are they referring to these records? :waitasec:

LolaMoon08 said:

We've been asking where his phone has been forever! All we know is that police claim that his parents wouldn't give them permission to access the phone logs and Trayvon's parents said that they don't even have the phone, that LE has it?

Click to expand...

Why on earth wouldn't they give their permission to access his phone logs?? I'm sure they will get them now.

Dr.Fessel said:

Let's say the phone was found in the bushes of one of the yards 5 days after the shooting. The person finds it and thinks it might be important and calls 911 with it and tells them their addy and says they found this phone and it is locked and they can't get into the phone book. 911 gives them a number to call the police or told them to bring it in and hung up. Then something soaks into the 911 operators brain about that number, maybe it is a mystery number from the shooting night that called 911 but did not say who it was and heard a fight. So 911 calls back and says don't do anything we are sending a cop to get it now.

Click to expand...

Ok - I'll play....... :biggrin:

IF the phone was found in the bushes - then how did it get there? Did Trayvon throw it right before he was shot? Or, did GZ find it before LE got there and threw it away?

IIRC Crump (Trayvon's parents' lawyer) said that his dad finally got the phone records on Sunday night - would that have been Sunday 3/4? And did he finally go that route because he had asked for the physical phone and SPD told him they didn't have it?

I'm telling ya - there is something up with this phone. There are way too many simple generic questions (like where is it) that are not even being brought up.



JMHO

Dr.Fessel said:

I am really cell phone ignorant. How do these earbuds work and where is the microphone?

Click to expand...

haha Doc <3 The earbuds are just mini head phones and the microphone is built into the thin cord from the headphones to the phone.

annalia said:

I'm lost, lol

Are we sure that these are Trayvon's phone records and not his girfriends?

In the video at around 1:13, it says that police have her records and her phone number but they never called. Are they referring to these records? :waitasec:

Click to expand...

That phone dials 911 and the SPD calls it back 2 minutes later.

vlpate said:

haha Doc <3 The earbuds are just mini head phones and the microphone is built into the thin cord from the headphones to the phone.

Click to expand...

LOL LOL Great! I just sent my first text the other day.

curl_in_progress said:

It just further proves to me that the Sanford PD were in no rush to do any real investigating in this case. Maybe they were waiting for Tray's drug and alcohol results to come back positive and when that (I assume) came back negative, they wanted to see the contents of the phone to look elsewhere for dirt on Tray.

Just my opinion.

Click to expand...

If you ask me they didn't want to do any investigation. In fact they did everything to make sure that any future investigation would be hampered. They didn't take Zimmerman's clothes, they didn't try to identify the victim immediately, they sent a narcotics detective to interview Zimmerman not a homicide detective, I wonder if they even took crime scene photos. They just took Zimmerman's word for gospel and called it a day.

IzzyBlanche said:

What right did Mr. Zimmerman have to question Mr. Martin?

And why would it be wrong for someone having a total stranger questioning him choose to try to evade that person?

Click to expand...

#1 Putting the Neighborhood watch thing aside for the moment... He had as much right as you do to ask someone walking past your house why they are there.

#2, Evasion will only raise suspicion... Therefore if you have a stranger asking such things be cautious but don't make things worse by creating more suspicion on yourself.

As I've said before as time goes by everyone is going to learn this was nothing more than an incident cultivated by many missteps and errors on both parties fault that resulted in a young man losing his life.

gitana1 said:

Right. Not only that, but what 17 year old kid would not try to evade a large, strange man, following him at night? As I've stated before, we teach our kids never to let a stranger approach them in such a situation, let alone question them.

<respectfully snipped>

Click to expand...

BEM: Trayvon was 6' and Zimmerman is 5'9".

Nali87 said:

For the life of me I cannot understand the way the police handled this! Even apparant suicides are investigated because the case is close. You're telling me they took George Zimmerman at his word that HE was the VICTIM and let him walk away after shooting Trayvon? I must've missed something - that can't be it. God.

Click to expand...

You didn't miss anything, yes they pretty much took GZ at his word for everything.

JMHO

porkchop said:

If you ask me they didn't want to do any investigation. In fact they did everything to make sure that any future investigation would be hampered. They didn't take Zimmerman's clothes, they didn't try to identify the victim immediately, they sent a narcotics detective to interview Zimmerman not a homicide detective, I wonder if they even took crime scene photos. They just took Zimmerman's word for gospel and called it a day.

Click to expand...

While I don't understand why there are not more documents available, being Florida and their generous Sunshine Law, I doubt what we've seen is the complete investigation. I could be wrong, but there is more paperwork done for a traffic stop.
Zimmerman was taken to the police station - not sure how long he was there, but he may well have been interviewed by a homicide detective onsite.

Of course they took crime scene photos, they are known as racist, not bafoons.

News reporters use to report facts...........What the H3ll has happened to the media?They put out mostly incorrect "facts" It adds to the confusion IMO.

Surely they searched the bushes for a weapon, hopefully.

Wise Old Owl said:

Ok - I'll play....... :biggrin:

IF the phone was found in the bushes - then how did it get there? Did Trayvon throw it right before he was shot? Or, did GZ find it before LE got there and threw it away?

IIRC Crump (Trayvon's parents' lawyer) said that his dad finally got the phone records on Sunday night - would that have been Sunday 3/4? And did he finally go that route because he had asked for the physical phone and SPD told him they didn't have it?

I'm telling ya - there is something up with this phone. There are way too many simple generic questions (like where is it) that are not even being brought up.



JMHO

Click to expand...

Ironhorse said:

#1 Putting the Neighborhood watch thing aside for the moment... He had as much right as you do to ask someone walking past your house why they are there.

#2, Evasion will only raise suspicion... Therefore if you have a stranger asking such things be cautious but don't make things worse by creating more suspicion on yourself.

As I've said before as time goes by everyone is going to learn this was nothing more than an incident cultivated by many missteps and errors on both parties fault that resulted in a young man losing his life.

Click to expand...

1. You said it yourself, when someone passes by YOUR houses, and the fact it is your house is noticeable because maybe you're standing inside. It shows to outsiders that it is your house, your property. Why would anyone expect a total stranger to ask them why they are on the streets? It doesn't make any sense. Do you walk up to strangers and randomly ask them what they're doing on so-and-so street?

2. George Zimmerman is not a cop. He was a stranger. Again, if you were walking alone and someone started asking you personal details about yourself, and you know there are murders and psychos out there, and this man has been following you in his car, would YOU volunteer any information?

Ironhorse said:

#1 Putting the Neighborhood watch thing aside for the moment... He had as much right as you do to ask someone walking past your house why they are there.

#2, Evasion will only raise suspicion... Therefore if you have a stranger asking such things be cautious but don't making things worse by creating more suspicion on yourself.

As I've said before as time goes by everyone is going to learn this was nothing more than an incident cultivated by many missteps and errors on both parties fault that resulted in a young man losing his life.

Click to expand...

Except for he didn't ask him until after he started chasing him. Zimmerman was following him, which put him on guard. During this time Zimmerman never asked him what he was doing because he was on the phone with 911. When Zimmerman continued to follow him and not say anything to him he understandably became scared and ran. And from what Trayvon's girlfriend said he stopped running when he though he lost Zimmerman. However we know he didn't and Trayvon's girlfriend said the last thing she heard was him asking Zimmerman why was he following him.

Instead of trying to play inspector maybe he should have asked Tray what he was doing instead of continuing to follow him. And once Tray ran he should have left it alone and let the cops handle it.

So I don't see how you can say anything is Tray's fault, he had a stranger following him, who didn't attempt to make contact at all with him. He did what any normal person would have done in that situation and tried to get away from him.

Ironhorse said:

#1 Putting the Neighborhood watch thing aside for the moment... He had as much right as you do to ask someone walking past your house why they are there.

#2, Evasion will only raise suspicion... Therefore if you have a stranger asking such things be cautious but don't making things worse by creating more suspicion on yourself.

As I've said before as time goes by everyone is going to learn this was nothing more than an incident cultivated by many missteps and errors on both parties fault that resulted in a young man losing his life.

Click to expand...

I honestly can not see that. You have a 27 year old man and a 17 year old teen. The 27 year old has 10 more years of life experience. He is the one that mistakenly thought this was a guy on drugs or messed up with something wrong with him and was up to no good and was just like those guys who get away. You know those guys that break into homes and get away. All of that was wrong period. And with all of that delusion in his head he arms himself and gets out and gives chase. You can hear his running footsteps in the tape.

Now this guy is 27 years old, he had the benefit of age and knew how teens would act when pushed into a corner or a situation of flight or fight. He should have been able to think about the consequences of his actions and how would he react when he was a teen if a strange man started following him then chasing him. How would he react?

gitana1 said:

Right. Not only that, but what 17 year old kid would not try to evade a large, strange man, following him at night? As I've stated before, we teach our kids never to let a stranger approach them in such a situation, let alone question them.

By the way, you can wrap quote tags around the post you are cutting and pasting from a locked thread to avoid confusion!!! Just highlight the selected text and hit the icon that looks like a cartoon quote thing, which is in between the hash sign and the picture icon.

Click to expand...

my bolding

Absolutely

Getting as far away as you can from an adult stranger following you, is what we would tell any kid. No way would we ever tell them that it would make them more suspicious. And no way would we ever tell them that they need to answer any questions from some strange adult chasing after them.

Why it doesn't apply here, and putting it all on Trayvon is mind boggling.

JMHO