Deceased/Not Found PA - Karen, 11, & Michael Reinert, 10, Ardmore, 22 June 1979 *W. Bradfield guilty*

The time frame is probably what catches most people...For the remains to be skeletal in a week seems fairly ludicrous until taking into account the person most likely to have killed them. Considering what a sick *advertiser censored* Smith was/is, and the torture to which Susan was subjected, I wouldn't doubt that acid was the cause of death....
 
I wouldn't doubt that Smith had friends higher up. In most smaller communities it seems like school principals, board members and what not have friendships with other people in "public servant" type jobs. Like Police chiefs, etc.
 
PonderingThings said:
Circumstances: On July 10, 1979, the skeletal remains of a white female and of a white male were found near Hwy. 20, West of Willits, in Mendocino Co., CA.

The estimated date of death is 12/8/1978.
Mike Echols mentioned these children in his book I Know My First Name is Steven, about the Steven Stayner abduction. According to Echols, Ken Parnell came very close to confessing to their murders, and he was in the area at the time they died. Parnell said "someone" had told him who the children were, but he had "forgotten" their identities since then.

Of course, Parnell is a sick *&%! who likes to toy with people, and Echols was a bit of a weirdo himself and perhaps not totally reliable, so I don't know what to make of all of this.
 
I believe the National Center for Missing Children once looked into this and ruled it out...

I have also heard that the Doe Network does not list these children on the web site at the request of family.
 
marylandmissing said:
I believe the National Center for Missing Children once looked into this and ruled it out...

I have also heard that the Doe Network does not list these children on the web site at the request of family.
I have not heard from any Reinert family members. I didn't list them for a long time because I had no pictures of them, until Crime Library wrote an article about their cases. Pennsylvania Missing mentions them though, and I think that's run by a Doe member.
The NCMEC doesn't list a lot of cases on their site that I wish they would. If they list Shemaeah Gunnell, they ought to list the Reinert children.
 
PonderingThings said:
It is my belief that these are the children BUT let me tell you why most people would disagree.

Circumstances: On July 10, 1979, the skeletal remains of a white female and of a white male were found near Hwy. 20, West of Willits, in Mendocino Co., CA.

The estimated date of death is 12/8/1978.

Jane is estimated to be 14 years old and was about 5'5-1/2" in height. She was wearing the pictured hoop with a pearched-bird earring (pierced-ear type).

John is estimated to be 13 years old and was about 5'5" in height. It is possible these children were related, perhaps brother and sister.

The photographs are computer-generated facial reconstructions done by a forensic artist at the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. Features such as eyes color, nose, size of lips and ears are the estimations of the artist to complete the image and should not be used as a significant marker for identification.


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Michael Reinert age 10 on left, John Doe age 13 on right
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Karen on left age 11 - Jane Doe on right estimated age 14
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1. The children went missing June 22, 1979 in Pennsylvania - these children were found just weeks later on July 10, 1979 but were SKELETAL at that time so the coroner estimated the date of death to be December 1978 (or 6 months before being found).


***Is it possible that some kind of chemical was used to destroy the children's bodies so much that the time of death is incorrect? This would have had to have been accomplished within a matter of weeks and NOT been detected by the coroner.

2. John and Jane Doe were found in California, Michael and Karen disappeared in Pennsylvania.

***There was enough time to travel to California... why though? California is very far. Perhaps to throw law enforcement off? Maybe they were going to be sold and something happened? If they were brought to California to be sold then it delays the death, which again shortens the available time to "decompose" the bodies.

3. Michael was 10 and John Doe is estimated at 13
Karen was 11 and Jane Doe is estimated at 14

***although the ages are off by 3 years for both, they are consistent in that Jane is one year older than John.

4. I feel the reconstructions strongly resemble the children - others may disagree.

5. I don't know if its because they've been declared legally dead, but there is no listing for the Reinert children on the Missing and Exploited Children site, nor the Doe Network.

Does that mean that they have been removed from the system and therefore no match is possible because nobody is looking for them anymore?

6. Did Karen have pierced ears? I could find no information about this.

I don't know if anyone has even submitted this possibility. I am assuming someone has because its too obvious. Perhaps I've assumed too much?

Or perhaps I'm completely wrong and this is another brother and sister who disappeared at that time and simply resemble the remains?
Michael and Karen were both ruled out by NCMEC as being the two UID's. Good eye though.
 
Thank you Paradise, I have no doubt they have been ruled out as its blatently obvious someone else had to have suggested it - I suspect many, many people have.

Perhaps you didn't read my additional comment about suspecting any comparison materials, whether they were dentals, or DNA, that were forwarded by the police department. But then, that is my opinion and I don't expect anyone else to share it.
 
I'm not exactly sure what they used to compare them, but I know that all of the potential matches for children submitted on doenetwork go to Gerry Nance at NCMEC no matter what, for the sole reason that it involves a minor. He decides whether to pursue it or not. I can't help but think that SOMEONE out there is missing these kids, they had to go to school and have families.
 
meggilyweggily said:
I have not heard from any Reinert family members. I didn't list them for a long time because I had no pictures of them, until Crime Library wrote an article about their cases. Pennsylvania Missing mentions them though, and I think that's run by a Doe member.
The NCMEC doesn't list a lot of cases on their site that I wish they would. If they list Shemaeah Gunnell, they ought to list the Reinert children.
Just what I think I heard once when I mentioned why the case wasn't posted...

NCMEC is independent of NCIC. All children immediately must be put into NCIC and reported to the state clearinghouse (the second doesn't happen as often as it should), but it's optional for police to request them to be put on NCMEC. Many of them are foster children, which are wards of the court, and social services has to authorize children being put on NCMEC.

Maryland is probably the leading state to post cases on NCMEC. They are one of the few abiding by Suzanne's law (posting missing up to the age of 21)...If you do a google search on missing children virginia you'll get about 60, and it's almost all old cases. If you do a google search on maryland, you'll get about 160 cases, and almost every one is up to date...
 
Paradise said:
I'm not exactly sure what they used to compare them, but I know that all of the potential matches for children submitted on doenetwork go to Gerry Nance at NCMEC no matter what, for the sole reason that it involves a minor. He decides whether to pursue it or not. I can't help but think that SOMEONE out there is missing these kids, they had to go to school and have families.
I wonder if it was a report maybe not taking or dumped at some point. Up till the Missing Children Act of 1982, missing kids reports were often not taken and dumped prior after a few weeks...Think a lot of our lost does are this.
 
Although its not outside the realm of possibility that these children are someone else, I won't believe it until it happens.

As for the lab in California. I believe that the lab acted properly. Carefully comparing whatever was supplied against the remains, and ruling that it wasn't them.

What I suspect is whoever had custody of the samples that were obtained for comparison. I would love to see the lab compare the remains to NEW samples obtained from an independent lab, or from their own people. NOT provided by law enforcement, or the DA office in the State where the murders took place.

Why? Because there were too many "coincidences". The tape, the cremation, the change in cause of death, etc.. Also the big one - the DA's office made a secret deal with a witness, that's the reason the man convicted of this/these murders is now free!

Problem is, their mother and father are both dead (he died in 2002), is there anyone out there to take a new sample from? ...and does anyone care?

I realise that I'm making a pretty strong accusation... but TWO children have remained unidentified for over 25 years! If they were your kids, would you just let the matter lie and not contact LE again, ever, to make sure the case had not been closed? Would you never look at the Missing and Exploited Children's website? ...again, sadly, that could happen... but???????
 
Pondering things, I can so feel for you and your frustration. I agree that until DNA has ruled these kids out, there is still a chance for a match. A national DNA database must be made. That way even if all surviving relatives are gone, there can still be a name to go with a found victim. Think of how many cases would be solved! Our government seems to have money for everything else, why not this?

I swear, some days I cannot bear to look at missing persons cases. It makes me angry and sad and determined and so many other things! We come back because we care. I just wish there was more we could do to get things done. Things are so much better now than a hundred years ago, or even 10 years ago, yet look at how many unsolved Does there are! Bless you for your perserverence.
 
Gardenmom thank you for your kind words! I am frustrated about this case in particular as I do believe people have responded dilligently. Meanwhile the childrens killer, if they are still alive, can see them posted everywhere and know they got away with hiding their identities. They are a trophy, of sorts, for the killer and that makes me REALLY angry.
furious.gif


My problem is that I believe the source is tainted. If the authorities say the DNA doesn't match, even if it was in a database, I still would believe the children were Karen and Michael because I have NO confidence that the correct DNA was provided for comparison (or whatever comparison materials were used).

That is the twist in THIS case. It is an unusual one.

As for a DNA database for the missing, I truly wonder why this isn't a given. Just the time LE would save alone should be enough to pay for the program! Missing people are getting more attention these days, thanks to the efforts of many organisations. Hopefully this will be enough to convince the political people that a DNA database is needed - SOON!
 
I have just learned, on another site, the the two UNIDENTIFIED children's DNA was tested in January 2006 and they are NOT brother and sister. (There is no confirmation of this info on the NCMEC or Doe Network site...yet)

Personally I still believe that they are the Reinert children and this "new" discovery just underscores my suspicions about the DNA being swapped out!

The good news is that LE is apparently reviewing all the info in the case of the two unidentified children!

**To clarify... I think the Reinhert's children's DNA was swapped out. The new information is that the Unidentified Children's DNA shows they are not related. I would really like to know who took the samples of that DNA (was it California?) or was it from a lab other than California?
 
PonderingThings said:
I have just learned, on another site, the the two UNIDENTIFIED children's DNA was tested in January 2006 and they are NOT brother and sister. (There is no confirmation of this info on the NCMEC or Doe Network site...yet)

Personally I still believe that they are the Reinert children and this "new" discovery just underscores my suspicions about the DNA being swapped out!

The good news is that LE is apparently reviewing all the info in the case of the two unidentified children!

**To clarify... I think the Reinhert's children's DNA was swapped out. The new information is that the Unidentified Children's DNA shows they are not related. I would really like to know who took the samples of that DNA (was it California?) or was it from a lab other than California?
Ok, so where is their father? Sorry if I missed this in another post. Maybe his DNA can be tested against the CA kids' DNA?
 
An earlier post states the father died in 2002. I don't know if this has been confirmed by anyone.
 
http://www.timesherald.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=12224618&BRD=1672&PAG=461&dept_id=33380&rfi=6
Added: Monday July 12, 2004 at 02:41 PM EST
I read the article and it's very accurate. I was the step-mother of Karen and Michael when they disapeared and it's good to know that they have no been forgotten. You never mentioned their father, Kenneth Reinert, who died on 6/2/02, never knowing what happened to his children. Other than that, it's a good article.
LYNN HOOVER
This is a comment that was added onto the article... anyone could have typed it but it rings true to me.
 
I found a similar entry on a genealogical site, if his middle initial was W. Death was in PA.
 
I see, so I really doubt they'd go to the cost and trouble of exhuming his body to get DNA samples unless they were pretty much 100% sure that they had Karen and Michael. I think the family knows more then they're telling and that's why they don't want their cases listed on doe.
 
I was born in Ardmore but my family moved to Jersey when I was very young. My grandma died in Ardmore and my very favorite aunt still lives there. This is such a compelling story. I will have to look into it more. I will post the Charley Project info...there is some mention of a possible unidentified gravesite for the two children...


Karen Reinert

reinert_karen.jpg

Above: Karen, circa 1979

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Vital Statistics at Time of Disappearance
Missing Since: June 22, 1979 from Ardmore, Pennsylvania
Classification: Endangered Missing
Age: 11 years old
Distinguishing Characteristics: Blonde hair.


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Details of Disappearance
Karen and her brother Michael were last seen at approximately 9:20 p.m. on June 22, 1979, leaving their home in Ardmore, Pennsylvania with their mother, Susan, and getting into a her hatchback car. They were never heard from again. A photograph of Susan is posted below this case summary.

Susan, Michael, and Karen were planning on meeting Susan's boyfriend, William S. "Bill" Bradfield, on the day of their disappearances. A photograph of Bradfield is posted below this case summary. They had begun their relationship in 1974, while Susan was still married to Michael and Karen's father. In March 1979, three months before she and her children disappeared, she told friends that Bradfield was going to marry her. She had $730,000 in insurance on her life, all of it with Bradfield as the beneficiary, and she gave him large sums of money to invest for her. She had changed her will to write her children out and make Bradfield the sole beneficiary as well. However, Susan did not know that Bradfield was also dating several other women.

At 5:20 a.m. June 25, Susan's nude body was found in the trunk of her own car, which was parked in the parking lot of the Host Inn in Swatara Township, Pennsylvania. A man with a Spanish accent telephoned in a report about a sick woman in the trunk of a car in the inn's parking lot, which lead to the discovery of Susan's remains. She had been beaten and bound with a chain, then killed with an injection of morphine 24 to 36 hours after the beating. There was no sign of Michael or Karen at the scene and an extensive search turned up no signs of either of them.

In 1981, Bradfield was tried for fraud for misusing Susan's money in fake investments. She had given him $25,000 to invest in a six-month certificate and was murdered shortly before the certificate was to come through. He was convicted and sentenced to two years in prison. Shortly after his release in 1983, Bradfield was rearrested and charged with conspiring to murder Susan, Karen, and Michael.

Prosecutors said Bradfield had murdered Susan and the children to keep her from finding out he had stolen her money. He was convicted of murder and given three life sentences in prison, but investigators did not believe he had acted alone. Jay Smith, the principal of the school where Susan taught before her death, was charged with murdering her and the children in 1985. A photograph of Smith is posted below this case summary. Authorities believed he had committed the actual killings, but Bradfield had orchestrated them. Smith's lawyer argued that Bradfield had deliberately framed him, but Smith was convicted of three counts of murder and sentenced to death.

Bradfield died in 1998 without ever admitting to involvement in Susan's murder and Karen and Michael's disappearances. Smith's conviction was overturned in 1989 and he was freed from prison in 1992.

Michael and Karen are presumed dead, but their remains have never been found. After Bradfield's death, authorities discovered a photograph among his effects which shows a stone in a wooded setting, standing upright as if marking something. An image of this photograph is posted below this case summary. Police are seeking to identify the place where it was taken; they believe the children's remains may be buried there.

reinert_susan.jpg
reinert_murderer.jpg
reinert_smith.jpg

Left: Susan Reinert;
Center: William Bradfield;
Right: Jay Smith
reinert_stone.jpg

Above: Possible gravesite



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Investigating Agency
If you have any information concerning this case, please contact:
Pennsylvania State Police
717-671-7500


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Source Information
Pennsylvania State Police
The Crime Library
FindLaw: Cases and Codes

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Updated 1 time since October 12, 2004.

Last updated January 26, 2005. Charley Project Home

 

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