George Zimmerman's Injuries #1

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Ok, so GZ has some injuries, :boohoo: He would not, IMO, have had them had he not pursued TM the way he did. TM was STANDING HIS OWN GROUND!!! Defending himself from this man who he felt threatened by. My story and I'm sticking to it :razz:

I'll stick to your story right along with you, PaperDoll! _ :clap:

Trayvon had every right to stand his ground against the scary vigilante who needed a 100 lb. Rottweiler -- a 9mm handgun full of hollow point bullets -- or both -- in order to muster the guts to go after the *up-to-no-good-a$$h*le* Black boys who always got away.

Justice for Trayvon Martin!
 
You can rely on what you are told by others so long as you are comfortable with what they told you, but you still have to claim it as your personal knowledge otherwise you can't effectively swear to it. Swearing to something is exactly the same as saying I know this to be true on penalty of perjury. It is a statement to the Court, under oath.

Example:

I submit an affidavit swearing that on June 6, 2011, my office sent a letter to so-and-so which said x, y z. If I wrote and sent the letter, I can swear to it without reservation. If I did not write the letter I can attach it and swear to it because I've seen the letter and the normal business practice in my office is for letters to be sent on the day they are dated by the means identified in the letter. However, if I did not write or send the letter myself, but my colleague tells me that he wrote it and sent it, I can still swear to it (as in, its physically possible for me to do so). But if I don't independently verify that the letter was sent and/or attach it to my affidavit, my affidavit is, at best, deficient and subject to challenge on that basis. Which is exactly the point of O'Mara's questioning.

And you are right that O'Steen also signed the affidavit. So I stand corrected on that point. I've never seen (or at least never noticed) an affidavit signed by two people. Nonetheless, both affiants are independently responsible for the content of the entire document, imo, and Gilbreath is still locked in. I agree with Dershowitz that it is a deficient PCA...period, and I think O'Mara did a great job.

The affidavit was a collaborative effort. This can't be the first time that has occurred and it's hard for me to believe that when two people each do half the work and sign the affidavit that they are each swearing that they have independently verified all the contents. How could that be? Would Gilbreath have had to go to O'Steen's witnesses and show them their statement and signature to make sure O'Steen had submitted an accurate document and vice versa? That doesn't make sense to me. There might as well just be one investigator.
 
BBM
I was unaware that GZ needs to show he suffered life threatening injurys in order to claim self defense?

Where would Trayvon be today if he had wrestled the gun away from George and shot him dead?

Would he have been standing his ground? Even if he only had scraped and bruised knuckles?

George started this all in motion not Trayvon and he has every reason in trying to make himself look like a victim.
 
He wasn't asked if he released it. This was not a court document, it was just Georges medical report. There are no court stamps on the top of it.

If he gave it to ABC or sold it to them he could answer honestly he did not leak it because it was not a leak.

If he did release it he can say he did not "leak" it to help Zimmerman.

He can say anything he wants because ABC will never disclose who gave it to them.

bbn

I don't know Dr.Fessel. _ :waitasec:

Didn't ABC eventually get caught with their pants down over the $200,000 payment for the exclusive rights to the Caylee photos and videos?
 
Wonder why he didn't follow up with an ear, nose and throat doctor as he was advised to do? Seems to me if it were broken this is the doctor who could tell him rather than a doctor who said it was "likely" broken. That report does not mean it was actually broken but he should treat it as if it is and follow up with a specialist, which he did not do. Obviously GZ did not feel it was broken or damaged enough to follow up on his injury. It sounds, too, as if the doctor was going by whatever input GZ provided him. If GZ told the doctor he was punched in the face 3 or 4 times I would think the doctor would conclude his nose was probably broken.

I'd like to see the report from the medics myself. jmo

My son broke his nose on two occasions. Neither time was he sent to a specialist for further care. Unless it is a 'twisted' type break, or one that is distorted in some way, there is no further treatment necessary. It just needs to heal. ' No More Hockey' for awhile were our only instructions.
 
Where I am from, DO's are as common as MD's. To say that they 'specialize' in osteopathy is a bit of a mischaracterization. While in the most technical sense that may be true, they tend to function much like MD's. They deliver babies, specialize in various types of surgery (orthapedic, etc.), and dx cancer, among other things.

If this was a DO he or his spouse considered to be their primary care physician - or even a Dr. one of them had seen previously for something small, I can certainly see why he'd go see someone familiar after an event such as this.

The article I referenced above states that he went in to be cleared to return to work. To me, that indicates two things. 1) He had no clue the firestorm was coming. He was just wanting to get back to his job - to his normal life; and 2) his injuries looked bad enough that he needed official proof that they would not preclude him from working.

Hi, I've been lurking but this caught my eye. I think this proves he has a depraved mind. What person after just undergoing such a traumatic incident and especially one which you took someone's life is ready to work?It had not even been 24 hours. I just think anyone would have took a sick day at least...It really shows that he had no sympathy whatsoever for the person (Trayvon) he had just killed. jmo
 
Why are bits and pieces of information being released and not the whole medical document/s?
 
Not if he threw the first punch. Then GZ was STANDING HIS OWN GROUND.

imo.

Tacking on 'imo' doesn't change the fact that what you wrote is incorrect as written. Being punched is not in itself justification for using lethal force under SYG. The person who uses lethal force needs to have a *reasonable* belief that his/her life is threatened or that they are going to suffer grievous harm. Considering that GZ used to be a bouncer, being punched by a slim youth should not give him a reasonable fear for his life. I can't believe how often I've had to read this misinformation, often from the same posters over and over again.
 
Hi, I've been lurking but this caught my eye. I think this proves he has a depraved mind. What person after just undergoing such a traumatic incident and especially one which you took someone's life is ready to work?It had not even been 24 hours. I just think anyone would have took a sick day at least...It really shows that he had no sympathy whatsoever for the person (Trayvon) he had just killed. jmo

How do we know he went back to work immediately. Maybe he needed to medical report in order for him to take a few days off, and THEN go back to work?
 
Hi, I've been lurking but this caught my eye. I think this proves he has a depraved mind. What person after just undergoing such a traumatic incident and especially one which you took someone's life is ready to work?It had not even been 24 hours. I just think anyone would have took a sick day at least...It really shows that he had no sympathy whatsoever for the person (Trayvon) he had just killed. jmo


Bingo, thank you and welcome!
 
Hi, I've been lurking but this caught my eye. I think this proves he has a depraved mind. What person after just undergoing such a traumatic incident and especially one which you took someone's life is ready to work?It had not even been 24 hours. I just think anyone would have took a sick day at least...It really shows that he had no sympathy whatsoever for the person (Trayvon) he had just killed. jmo

I do not believe we know enough to make that characterization.

People react differently to tragic events. Some immediately collapse, emotionally. Some function in shock, going about their daily business, and eventually break down.

He was not a man of significant means, and he may have been paid by the hour. He may also have had a lot of work backed up and been under pressure to get through a certain amount of work in a short amount of time, at the risk of losing his job if he fell behind.

We really just can't know.

I also don't know that GZ had any clue at that point *who* he had killed. I don't believe the parents even knew he was dead yet. He may very well have been under the assumption that he had stopped a burglary that was about to happen and had killed somebody who had was responsible for his neighborhood living on eggshells and getting big dogs and concealed carry permits... in which case he might not have felt 'sympathy' for the person he had killed. Regret that he had not been able to stop him without loss of life, maybe... but not necessarily sympathy for someone he had originally suspected of being up to mischief who hid, came back around, walked up and asked him a question, and then began beating him up.

I wasn't there, obviously, so I do not know that that's what TM did. The trial will determine that. I just mean that that is GZ's contention regarding what TM did, and if it is accurate, the next day GZ may have been walking around believing he was responsible for the death of a *criminal*... as opposed to, as he is often called, "... an unarmed boy who had just bought some candy."
 
Hi, I've been lurking but this caught my eye. I think this proves he has a depraved mind. What person after just undergoing such a traumatic incident and especially one which you took someone's life is ready to work?It had not even been 24 hours. I just think anyone would have took a sick day at least...It really shows that he had no sympathy whatsoever for the person (Trayvon) he had just killed. jmo

BBM.

Someone in still in shock.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:
 
If by provoked you mean hitting someone in the nose knocking him to the ground and bashing his head to the ground after they ask you a question, then yes SYG or even plain old self defense would be justified. JMO.


In the example given, by provoked, I meant threatening someone to the point of inciting a fight. Then would SYG apply?? I don't know if FL has flushed that law out in every manner possible yet. So...here we have another chance to clarify the rights of the aggressively gun-happy.
 
My son broke his nose on two occasions. Neither time was he sent to a specialist for further care. Unless it is a 'twisted' type break, or one that is distorted in some way, there is no further treatment necessary. It just needs to heal. ' No More Hockey' for awhile were our only instructions.

But the doctor recommended he see one. You go to a doctor and then ignore his advice?? GZ seems to do that a lot with authority figures. And it does seem as if he got what he wanted to prove he was hurt and did not need a specialist to tell him it wasn't broken. I would think if it really bothered him he would have gone. jmo
 
But the doctor recommended he see one. You go to a doctor and then ignore his advice?? GZ seems to do that a lot with authority figures. And it does seem as if he got what he wanted to prove he was hurt and did not need a specialist to tell him it wasn't broken. I would think if it really bothered him he would have gone. jmo

As far as I can tell, there is no special treatment for a broken nose. It just has to heal. Given that, Zimmerman might have felt there is no point of going to a specialist.
 
In the example given, by provoked, I meant threatening someone to the point of inciting a fight. Then would SYG apply?? I don't know if FL has flushed that law out in every manner possible yet. So...here we have another chance to clarify the rights of the aggressively gun-happy.

Do you mean threatening them with words or a weapon? If its words I don't believe someone can assault the person saying those words. JMO.
 
bbn

I don't know Dr.Fessel. _ :waitasec:

Didn't ABC eventually get caught with their pants down over the $200,000 payment for the exclusive rights to the Caylee photos and videos?

Didn't that happen in court though? Baez et al were forced to disclose the info at FCA's indigency hearing IIRC.
 
Not in Texas either.

So is those bad drugs George was taking going to be his defense?

Back in the day we called them uppers and downers.

We don't know if GZ was/is taking them. Just that they were prescribed.

I have about 10 prescriptions in my medicine cabinet that I don't take.
 
Yeah it's a shame LE didn't test him that night so we would know for sure one way or another.
 
I do not believe we know enough to make that characterization.

People react differently to tragic events. Some immediately collapse, emotionally. Some function in shock, going about their daily business, and eventually break down.

He was not a man of significant means, and he may have been paid by the hour. He may also have had a lot of work backed up and been under pressure to get through a certain amount of work in a short amount of time, at the risk of losing his job if he fell behind.

We really just can't know.

I also don't know that GZ had any clue at that point *who* he had killed. I don't believe the parents even knew he was dead yet. He may very well have been under the assumption that he had stopped a burglary that was about to happen and had killed somebody who had was responsible for his neighborhood living on eggshells and getting big dogs and concealed carry permits... in which case he might not have felt 'sympathy' for the person he had killed. Regret that he had not been able to stop him without loss of life, maybe... but not necessarily sympathy for someone he had originally suspected of being up to mischief who hid, came back around, walked up and asked him a question, and then began beating him up.

I wasn't there, obviously, so I do not know that that's what TM did. The trial will determine that. I just mean that that is GZ's contention regarding what TM did, and if it is accurate, the next day GZ may have been walking around believing he was responsible for the death of a *criminal*... as opposed to, as he is often called, "... an unarmed boy who had just bought some candy."

BBM
. :hand: But Trayvon was just "an unarmed boy who had just bought candy"... He committed no crime, had no burglary tools on him. Meanwhile, there are some who suppose George stood over Trayvon after he shot him and frisked his pockets! Imagine what surprise George must have felt! He had plenty of time prior to his bond hearing to express his remorse to Trayvon's parents...
 
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