Maikai
New Member
was also in Atlanta...he had left a day or two before, I believe.
Barbara said:
What we know about Ransom Note
- Thread starter poco
- Start date
Camper
New Member
Maikai, you posted " I don't know why they didn't call the Stines, but that's not even relevant. Patsy's mother was in Atlanta. It wasn't a child's prank--JBR could barely read, let alone write a note like that. The Ramsey response was entirely correct, considering the panic they were facing at the time. They trusted the police to do the right thing. They did check Burke......at that point in time, they wanted immediate help---they had no idea what to do, or have the presence of mind to conduct their own investigation inside the house looking for clues."
Point by point
1. I think it was relevant on NOT calling the Stines, whom I believe were their BEST friends.
2. Burke could write so could the Stine boy, the boys were best friends.
3. At a time of crisis normal folks reach out to family loved ones for help, are you saying Patsy might not love or trust her mom for any 'kind' of help?
WE, meaning websleuthers really do not know just exactly when grandpa left Boulder, same as with JAR's exact movements to and from Boulder.
Alright the purpose of this thread was to understand WHY parents would NOT READ the ENTIRE ransom note, BEFORE they did any phone calling, and especially AFTER THEY CALLED THE POLICE.
We are led to believe rightly or wrongly that the only time they scanned the note was in a panic BEFORE they called the
Police. I have read nothing about the 'brunch club' asking to see the ransom note, or reading it aloud to each other, or even talking about the note, am I wrong here?
I just personally find it ODD that I would not have read the WHOLE NOTE, shaking, crying, and trying to figure out the WHO was that wrote it and the WHY of it.
Point by point
1. I think it was relevant on NOT calling the Stines, whom I believe were their BEST friends.
2. Burke could write so could the Stine boy, the boys were best friends.
3. At a time of crisis normal folks reach out to family loved ones for help, are you saying Patsy might not love or trust her mom for any 'kind' of help?
WE, meaning websleuthers really do not know just exactly when grandpa left Boulder, same as with JAR's exact movements to and from Boulder.
Alright the purpose of this thread was to understand WHY parents would NOT READ the ENTIRE ransom note, BEFORE they did any phone calling, and especially AFTER THEY CALLED THE POLICE.
We are led to believe rightly or wrongly that the only time they scanned the note was in a panic BEFORE they called the
Police. I have read nothing about the 'brunch club' asking to see the ransom note, or reading it aloud to each other, or even talking about the note, am I wrong here?
I just personally find it ODD that I would not have read the WHOLE NOTE, shaking, crying, and trying to figure out the WHO was that wrote it and the WHY of it.
K777angel
Member
The way John and Patsy have treated that note from the 26th on has been very important to consider.
First, I find it curious that neither John nor Patsy can recall just WHERE that note was the moment Patsy informed John that it existed.
If we are to believe Patsy when she says she came down those spiral stairs that morning, saw the 3 pages of note lying on the stair tread and then turned around to 'read' what it said - some questions NEED to be asked and answered. They are not that hard.
Did Patsy bend down and read the note or pick up the page(s)?
If she bent down to read it - HOW could she see as it was so dark?
If she picked it up to read what it said - WHERE did it land when she ran back up the stairs screaming for John??? Did she throw it down? Carry it with her?
Where did John FIRST see that note?
It's inconceivable to me that neither of them can remember what transpired with that note. The note was the ONLY connection to their daughter and who had her and where she might be.
For Patsy to say she read "through it a bit" - and not "I poured over it again and again trying to find ANY CLUE as to who might have her and where she might be" Same with John.
Both distanced themselvs from that note from the beginning other than to use it in a cursory way until it acheived it's intended goal of diverting attention away from what really happened.
Once that was accomplished - they seemed to forget it even exisited.
Or defended it as being legitimate as Patsy did on the CNN interview the day after they buried JonBenet when she exclaimed, "Well it seemed like a kidnapping to me." AFTER she knew her daughter had never been taken from their home!! She KNEW the note was a lie. Yet she continued to try and act as if it were true - I guess still hoping everyone else would too.
Detective Linda Arndt said that during that morning at the Ramsey house everyone was discussing just WHO may have written that note etc. Everyone sitting there - except John Ramsey that is. He was silent.
Completely unrealistic and unbelievable.
The Ramseys should have poured over that note all day hoping to find any clue they could as to who might have JonBenet. Yet they seemed to just distance themselves from it instead.
They didn't wake Burke. They didn't search their house but "a bit". They didn't search outside. They didn't run to neighbors and plead for any info they might have as to something they may have seen or heard in the night.
They didn't pay much attention to the note - the only thing the said kidnapper left behind. The only connection to their daughter.
First, I find it curious that neither John nor Patsy can recall just WHERE that note was the moment Patsy informed John that it existed.
If we are to believe Patsy when she says she came down those spiral stairs that morning, saw the 3 pages of note lying on the stair tread and then turned around to 'read' what it said - some questions NEED to be asked and answered. They are not that hard.
Did Patsy bend down and read the note or pick up the page(s)?
If she bent down to read it - HOW could she see as it was so dark?
If she picked it up to read what it said - WHERE did it land when she ran back up the stairs screaming for John??? Did she throw it down? Carry it with her?
Where did John FIRST see that note?
It's inconceivable to me that neither of them can remember what transpired with that note. The note was the ONLY connection to their daughter and who had her and where she might be.
For Patsy to say she read "through it a bit" - and not "I poured over it again and again trying to find ANY CLUE as to who might have her and where she might be" Same with John.
Both distanced themselvs from that note from the beginning other than to use it in a cursory way until it acheived it's intended goal of diverting attention away from what really happened.
Once that was accomplished - they seemed to forget it even exisited.
Or defended it as being legitimate as Patsy did on the CNN interview the day after they buried JonBenet when she exclaimed, "Well it seemed like a kidnapping to me." AFTER she knew her daughter had never been taken from their home!! She KNEW the note was a lie. Yet she continued to try and act as if it were true - I guess still hoping everyone else would too.
Detective Linda Arndt said that during that morning at the Ramsey house everyone was discussing just WHO may have written that note etc. Everyone sitting there - except John Ramsey that is. He was silent.
Completely unrealistic and unbelievable.
The Ramseys should have poured over that note all day hoping to find any clue they could as to who might have JonBenet. Yet they seemed to just distance themselves from it instead.
They didn't wake Burke. They didn't search their house but "a bit". They didn't search outside. They didn't run to neighbors and plead for any info they might have as to something they may have seen or heard in the night.
They didn't pay much attention to the note - the only thing the said kidnapper left behind. The only connection to their daughter.
vicktor
New Member
messiecake said:I think it started as J & P thinking they'd only invite maybe The Fleet's and/or just The Fernies but you know Patsy! The guest list grew because well theres just people you cant NOT invite isnt there?
Are you suggesting that after a night where their daughter was accidently injured, then killed, or deliberately killed, that the Ramseys convened their social group vainly thinking that they had to keep up appearances? That after participating in their daughter's killing A/O coverup, they wouldn't be in a near panicked or psychotic state for their friends to see as well as the BPD? That after planning an elaborate coverup that their lives depended on, they would sit around as the BPD and friends looked for answers.
Britt
New Member
True, Camper, good point, and what we do know of JAR's alleged alibi, it was less than ironclad - nothing that couldn't have been faked or manipulated or lied about... and why was John spending all that money on lawyers for such distant family anyway?Camper said:
Oh, small epiphany: could it be that the reason John excluded Paugh from the lawyering shelter was because Paugh was the abuser in this drama and John wasn't about to protect him? Hmmm, that would explain a whole lot, wouldn't it?
Anyway, if sleuthers are willing to dismiss Burke's free pass by BPD, why not dismiss JAR's and Paugh's free passes as well? I know, Burke was known to be IN the house... but... do I really have to bring up the lame police work again?
Britt
New Member
I have had little children in the home, but I still think I would call police immediately after reading the (whole) note, thereby preserving any crime scene if one existed. I would want the police to sort it out even if it turned out to be a prank by one of my kids, on the theory that the police presence would tend to discourage the prankster from planning any future pranks.Camper said:
But this approach, which is based on preserving the crime scene, is obviously completely inconsistent with hosting a brunch.
Britt
New Member
Yes, exactly, that was an important part of the elaborate coverup... appearances... performances... staging.vicktor said:
They needed an audience. And they needed insulation from police questioning, people who could do some of their talking for them (it wouldn't look good to have their lawyers on the scene just yet). They needed to create distraction and confusion. They needed to destroy the crime scene and add a whole bunch of physical evidence to the investigation.
They called the Whites and Fernies because they were more expendable than the Stines. The Whites and Fernies could easily be thrown under the bus ("it has to be an inside job") when that physical evidence started creating questions. But Miz Stine, Devoted Pit Bull, was needed for post-crime protection (and protect she did).
In the words of my friend the defense attorney: All I have to do is confuse.
Camper
New Member
Britt you posted, "They called the Whites and Fernies because they were more expendable than the Stines. The Whites and Fernies could easily be thrown under the bus ("it has to be an inside job") when that physical evidence started creating questions. But Miz Stine, Devoted Pit Bull, was needed for post-crime protection (and protect
she did).
Britt, I donut recall anyone ever touching such a fine chord about the 'WHY' Stines were not called. Outstanding thinking.
I am beginning to wonder if any remaining relatives in the Atlanta area, had any problems with family incest? It is a quiet crime as I read, and now a potential suspect is dead, and any other victims will most likely be as quiet too.
No lawyering for Mr. Paugh by John, but John provided lawyering for those who 'might' be in the know.
Odd, imop.
I continue to think that the ongoing investigative adventures are a face saving activity. I would hope with all sincerity that this is not so, but I fear I may be correct.
Tricias, Ramsey honesty web site, is a big case in point.
she did).
Britt, I donut recall anyone ever touching such a fine chord about the 'WHY' Stines were not called. Outstanding thinking.
I am beginning to wonder if any remaining relatives in the Atlanta area, had any problems with family incest? It is a quiet crime as I read, and now a potential suspect is dead, and any other victims will most likely be as quiet too.
No lawyering for Mr. Paugh by John, but John provided lawyering for those who 'might' be in the know.
Odd, imop.
I continue to think that the ongoing investigative adventures are a face saving activity. I would hope with all sincerity that this is not so, but I fear I may be correct.
Tricias, Ramsey honesty web site, is a big case in point.
BlueCrab
New Member
Camper said:
I would have read the note briefly and then searched the house quickly from top to bottom and outside. I would then have wakened Burke and quizzed him about JonBenet's possible whereabouts before calling the police. Then I'd have read the note over and over again, looking for a clue in it while waiting for the cops to arrive. At that time the note was the only piece of evidence.
However, we know now that that's not even close to the way things likely went down, because we know the Ramseys were lying about Burke being asleep in his room while the 911 call was being placed by Patsy. The Ramsey's version of events that morning lost all credibility with that conspiratoral lie among John, Patsy and Burke. Why lie about Burke's whereabouts during the Ramsey's crucial initial contact with law enforcement? What were they hiding?
JMO
Barbara
New Member
BlueCrab said:
Wow Bluecrab,
I have goosebumps on my arm. I was just sitting down to my computer to make a new thread asking where you were and if you were okay.
Whew! Glad to see you posting.
Camper
New Member
Blue Crab you get a gold star for the best common sense answer yet!
BlueCrab
New Member
Barbara said:
Thanks for your concern Barb. I was out of town on business for a month.
JMO
gretchen
Former Member
Okay, this is just me folks, and don't anyone tell me how I would react in this situation because " I haven't been there." Try another argument, but not that one okay?
I would wake up, stumble out of bed, and prayed I was able to make it down the steps without falling. All I want at this point is a cup of coffee, heavy on caffeine and sugar, no cream, thank you. With one eye closed I would attempt to master the staircase. Oh, a note , a three page note spread acroos the thread of the stairs. I must step over it. See, I am so limber in my old age. Keep in mind, I had Stage 4 cancer, so this is a big feat. But I am up to the challenge.
I pick up these pages, it must be Linda reminding me to leave her a check. Listen carefullly, we have your daughter.... $118.000 dollars? Isn't that ironic, it matches my husband's bonus check. I keep reading, don't tell anyone about this, not even a stray cat. Well thank you buddies, I think I will call my best friends. How many do I have? The Fernies, Whites, let's don't forget our pastor either.
Gee John, put on some underwear, would you? Oh, you don't have to get on you knees to read that note. Please don't touch it, you may leave your prints. If you try carefully, I am sure you would get some light in the foyer.
I would wake up, stumble out of bed, and prayed I was able to make it down the steps without falling. All I want at this point is a cup of coffee, heavy on caffeine and sugar, no cream, thank you. With one eye closed I would attempt to master the staircase. Oh, a note , a three page note spread acroos the thread of the stairs. I must step over it. See, I am so limber in my old age. Keep in mind, I had Stage 4 cancer, so this is a big feat. But I am up to the challenge.
I pick up these pages, it must be Linda reminding me to leave her a check. Listen carefullly, we have your daughter.... $118.000 dollars? Isn't that ironic, it matches my husband's bonus check. I keep reading, don't tell anyone about this, not even a stray cat. Well thank you buddies, I think I will call my best friends. How many do I have? The Fernies, Whites, let's don't forget our pastor either.
Gee John, put on some underwear, would you? Oh, you don't have to get on you knees to read that note. Please don't touch it, you may leave your prints. If you try carefully, I am sure you would get some light in the foyer.
gretchen
Former Member
Please don't wake Burke, he needs his sleep, as we will be leaving for Charlevoix soon.
The police arrive, I look on with splayed fingers. I am sure they know what they are doing.
Please John, let's get out of here. We will leave JonBenet's body on the floor. She will be okay while we are in Atlanta
YEP that is exactly how I would act. NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The police arrive, I look on with splayed fingers. I am sure they know what they are doing.
Please John, let's get out of here. We will leave JonBenet's body on the floor. She will be okay while we are in Atlanta
YEP that is exactly how I would act. NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
gretchen
Former Member
To be continued....
Camper
New Member
gretchen said:
----------Thats a good one Gretchen - :clap::clap:
As I am slapping my knee, I am thinking, thinking, hmmm wonder who picked the note up and left no wrinkles or fingerprints? Did John leap over the note too. Then we have Mr. Fernie who read the ransom note on the stairs, through the window in the dark. Did he get on the floor too, er I forgot, the police came first OR did they, hmmm.
Well was the light on when Fernie came?
Wonder who the 'first friend' to arrive was, and where did he park?
Excuse me I truly do not remember where the police 'found' the note when they came, anyone?
gretchen
Former Member
I think Patsy "jumped over then note,'' read it, and leaped over it again, screaming for John. Okay, must read my notes again. Did she pick up the note? This of course goes against everything I believe about this case, since I think Patsy killed JonBenet, then wrote the note. It is all a matter of what you believe.
Okay, I jumped over this note going down the stairs, I am sure I can jump over this note going up. Wait and see me yell for John. Oh yeah, was it at this point I check on Burke, oh no, he is asleep, let's don't disturb him.
I could go on and on. No fingerprints on the note, except for the CBI's. The intruder wore gloves, don't you understand? :doh: This intruder waited in the home while the Ramsey's were visiting the Whites. Now, you have to admit, this is one smart intruder. Give credit where credit its due.!
Okay, I jumped over this note going down the stairs, I am sure I can jump over this note going up. Wait and see me yell for John. Oh yeah, was it at this point I check on Burke, oh no, he is asleep, let's don't disturb him.
I could go on and on. No fingerprints on the note, except for the CBI's. The intruder wore gloves, don't you understand? :doh: This intruder waited in the home while the Ramsey's were visiting the Whites. Now, you have to admit, this is one smart intruder. Give credit where credit its due.!
Camper
New Member
You have painted an interesting picture here. IF IF IF you are correct, then does Patsy have a very large secret here that John does not know? Is John the one that keeps the attorneys piggy bank filled, in searching for the elusive Boulder (hold your babies close, there is a killer on the loose)perp?
Hey this is something I do not believe WE have ever considered, have WE?
This would include tiny murder puzzle pieces coming together with a rather hazy picture. LHP saying Patsy spoke of not caring much for sex or words rather like that. Then we have the dictionary opened to the word incest, for whose benefit ?, the trips to the school nurse for JonBenet on the two Mondays preceding her murder.
Was JBR murdered, to keep her from being molested by the father or, no couldn't be?
Everyone remembers Marilyn Vanderbur Atler, and the problems with her first marriage.
Marilyn and her sister both were being molested by a pillar of the community, their father.
Wonder where John was when the police responded to the 911 call on the 23rd?
Could this murder be a big secret protecting grandpa, and the whole ugly present and past of a deceased grandpa, that John knows nothing about?
We may have painted ourselves into a corner with this one Gretchen, but we can wait with the rest of America to see who the ACTIVE detectives finally pin this one on.
Hey this is something I do not believe WE have ever considered, have WE?
This would include tiny murder puzzle pieces coming together with a rather hazy picture. LHP saying Patsy spoke of not caring much for sex or words rather like that. Then we have the dictionary opened to the word incest, for whose benefit ?, the trips to the school nurse for JonBenet on the two Mondays preceding her murder.
Was JBR murdered, to keep her from being molested by the father or, no couldn't be?
Everyone remembers Marilyn Vanderbur Atler, and the problems with her first marriage.
Marilyn and her sister both were being molested by a pillar of the community, their father.
Wonder where John was when the police responded to the 911 call on the 23rd?
Could this murder be a big secret protecting grandpa, and the whole ugly present and past of a deceased grandpa, that John knows nothing about?
We may have painted ourselves into a corner with this one Gretchen, but we can wait with the rest of America to see who the ACTIVE detectives finally pin this one on.
Maikai
New Member
Camper said:
OK..so while you're standing there trying to find out the who, what, and why
a six-year old has been taken from the house on a cold night, and that wouldn't be your priority? Their daughter was gone...a ransom note left...and they reacted. I hate to think the conspiracy theories that would have been touted if the Ramseys had complied with the note, and just sat around waiting for the phone to ring, with a bag full of money.
Burke could write---it doesn't mean a 9 year old would even have the wherewithal to write such a note.
Y'all are sure nitpicking on trivial things........