They need to arrest John Ramsey soon...

Chrishope said:
You have to look at it like a crime novel, or a made for TV movie. The reason you have to look at it that way is this - all we can do is speculate from the evidence available to the public. Sort of like figuring it out from clues in a novel or in a movie.

A crime novel where police are called in to investigate a rape/murder, and where on page 2, they find the father's semen in the girl's vagina and his fingerprints on the blody knife would be a very short book, and not much of a thriller.

We aren't going to get iron-clad evidence in this case. Not enough for a conviction anyway. Can fibers innocently get entwined in the garrotte? I don't know. We have to call in fiber experts. Since both sides will do this, there's no doubt the fiber experts will disagree.

If this is ever solved it will be like on TV. The suspect will break down and sob and admit guilt. IOW, this case will never be solved, and will never go to trial.

But we can look at the evidence and ask where it leads us. Many of us think the RDI makes the most sense. We'll never have the sort of proof that will hold up in court, but we're still convinced.

I'll give you a few reasons for a start, then let others continue.

My theory of the case. JRDI

A. The ransom note is staging, there was never an actual kidnapping planned, which later went bad. Why ?

1. Dead bodies left in the house with RNs don’t often result in payment of ransom.

2. It was hand written. Most RN authors would like to avoid it being
traced to them. The R's if covering up, wouldn't have had a choice.

3. 118K points to someone who knows JR’s bonus. No real kidnapper or intruder would point to himself that way.

4. It’s the longest, most rambling RN in history. It just doesn’t seem
like a real RN.

5. It’s written on the R’s paper, with one of their sharpie markers. A real kidnapper would have come prepared with the RN already written.

If it’s staging, who has more reason to write it, an intruder paedo with no intention of collecting ransom, or the R’s to coverup? I think the later.
The RN is the longest one in history I think, It makes no sense at all. It all too me makes no sense, lol. Thats why I am asking, It just seems like if they killed her couldnt they have gone about it differently like writing the note then taking her body somewhere else? Why leave it in the house?
 
lilpony said:
Oh boy, I am under pressure, hehe!! I don't preform well under pressure! LOL

Ok, I DON"T want to believe they killed their daughter, its not proven to me yet. I can't believe they would use a garrote, on their little girl, how can they go that far. If they did this, they are twisted and sick!
I know exactly what you are getting at lilpony, its hard for us to comprehend that a parent can do this but they can, and they unfortunatly will continue too. I cant go there either because I am a parent too and it sickens me.
 
lilpony said:
LinasK. I am so sorry. If they did this, there should have been something that would have pointed directly to them. And if there was, why wasn't something done about it. I mean how could they cover for this horrible crime. Wouldn't you think they could break one of them? This is so frustrating isn't it? Confusing too!
Thank-you Lilpony, Peter & others who have responded. It happened over 30 years ago, so I've had time to deal with it.

I believe Patsy stood by her man. That's why she wrote the ransom note and they did all the staging- to make it look like an intruder rather than admit her husband was molesting her daughter and face all the negative PR that would bring. When John saw he strangled her, JB got finished off with a head blow rather than seek medical help.
 
michelle,then neighbors will tell the cops,hey the R's took the car out in the middle of the night--well,it worked for Wayne Williams for a while,he threwa lot of bodies in the river---still its quite risky
 
Another reason.

B. This was a sex crime.

1. Whoever killed JBR was a really pervy paedo. This is true whether it was JR or an intruder.

2. Whoever put the garrotte around her neck knew something of the kinky world of errotic asphyxiation, or wanted to explore it. This isn’t something the parents would do, as staging, if they hadn't known anyting of these kinds of sexual practices.

3. At the same time, the garrotte wasn’t very “professional”. If a ring of Paedos was involved, or even just one paedo who had some “friends” someone would have helped him make a good one. This garrotte was someone’s first go at AE.

4. The garrotte was made at the scene. An intruder pervy paedo would have brought one ready made.

It's not really proveable either way, but to go with an IDI theory you have to believe in an inept intruder, who doesn't really know how to make a garrotte, and doesn't bother to bring one with him, prefering instead to hope that the home will contain the necessary materials. Since it was built on the body, you also have to believe he frittered away the several hours he spent in the house by working crossword puzzles instead of making the garrotte he planned to use later that night. It just makes more sense to me that an R did this.
 
3. 118K points to someone who knows JR’s bonus. No real kidnapper or intruder would point to himself that way.

the reason for the $118,000 was to throw suspicion toward JR's co-workers, imo...
 
Peter Hamilton said:
lilpony,you don't think Susan Smith case was worse than this? I do
Hmmmmm, that was pretty horrible as well.
 
Chrishope said:
No. I don't really care who did it. I don't find the idea of he parents doing it any more disturbing than an intruder doing it. This stuff happens. Parents have done similar things. So have intruders.
Do you think both parents did it. Or one of them, and then the other covered for the other?
 
michelle said:
The RN is the longest one in history I think, It makes no sense at all. It all too me makes no sense, lol. Thats why I am asking, It just seems like if they killed her couldnt they have gone about it differently like writing the note then taking her body somewhere else? Why leave it in the house?

Why indeed. Why was it not discovered by FW or the police that morning? Perhaps it wasn't in the room at that time. I'm only speculating here.

JR was down the basement mid-morning. He discovered an unlatched window a few hours after finding out his daughter had been kidnapped. By the time he got to the top of the steps he'd forgotten about it, and so didn't tell the police that were standing in his living room. 4 months later, he remembers. When you look at the actions/statements of the Ramseys it's hard not to be suspicious of them.
 
LinasK said:
Thank-you Lilpony, Peter & others who have responded. It happened over 30 years ago, so I've had time to deal with it.

I believe Patsy stood by her man. That's why she wrote the ransom note and they did all the staging- to make it look like an intruder rather than admit her husband was molesting her daughter and face all the negative PR that would bring. When John saw he strangled her, JB got finished off with a head blow rather than seek medical help.
If JR strangled her, why would then have to do the head blow. She would have been already dead.
 
Chrishope said:
Why indeed. Why was it not discovered by FW or the police that morning? Perhaps it wasn't in the room at that time. I'm only speculating here.

JR was down the basement mid-morning. He discovered an unlatched window a few hours after finding out his daughter had been kidnapped. By the time he got to the top of the steps he'd forgotten about it, and so didn't tell the police that were standing in his living room. 4 months later, he remembers. When you look at the actions/statements of the Ramseys it's hard not to be suspicious of them.
Oh I admit that 2 things stand out to me more then anything and that is the window, why not tell right away that is so important and 2 how was her body over looked the first time they went to search the house? I dont get that? I know that they thought they were dealing with a kidnapping but I would rip that house apart looking for my child. But those things can be explained as well.
 
lilpony said:
Do you think both parents did it. Or one of them, and then the other covered for the other?

I think it's more likely JR was the sexual molester. It would be more common for a man to do this than a woman. I think Patsy knew what JR was doing to JBR. Why did she go along? Don't know. I only know that women have gone along with this sort of activity in other cases. It's not unusual for a woman to overlook this kind of thing rather than risk loosing a boyfriend. In this case, it's not some looser boyfriend, but a millionaire husband.

I think JR might have been expirementing with AE and it cause JBR to have heart failure. They had to hit her in the head to make it seem she was attacked by an intruder. I think Patsy went along with the coverup.

It's just a theory.

Another reason so many of us on the RDI side sometimes act is if we are certain is that the IDI theory has so many holes in it.
 
lilpony said:
[/b]

Whaaaaat, your kidding me! Thats crazy! How come the case was fumbled so badly...weird!


Not only that, but LE let Patsy's sister into the house the next day to get "some clothing for them to wear to the funeral", and she took tons of stuff out of the house - including the black pants and black boots that Patsy had worn on Christmas day (and was still wearing the next day).
 
Chrishope,

I have heard that the reasoning behind some people think that the garrotte was built on her body was because her hair was tangled in it.

Why isn't it possible that the garrotte was built PRIOR to being wrapped around her, and then her hair got tangled in it during the wrapping and/or twisting of the garrotte????
 
julianne said:
Chrishope,

I have heard that the reasoning behind some people think that the garrotte was built on her body was because her hair was tangled in it.

Why isn't it possible that the garrotte was built PRIOR to being wrapped around her, and then her hair got tangled in it during the wrapping and/or twisting of the garrotte????

It's possible but not probable. The way that particular garrotte worked -or was suppossed to work, had it been made by someone knowing what they were doing, is that one pulls the handle to tighten the "noose" part. Twisting the handle would do nothing at all.

Pulling on it could catch some hairs, and pull them out, but probably wouldn't twist them.

It is possilbe that her hair got tangle in it somehow, even if it were already built prior to use. It just doesn't seem the most likely explanation -imo.
 
close_enough said:
3. 118K points to someone who knows JR’s bonus. No real kidnapper or intruder would point to himself that way.

the reason for the $118,000 was to throw suspicion toward JR's co-workers, imo...
I believe the same thing.
And doing it at christmas....
If the Ramseys did it or someone else, it was planned......
Did the Ramseys have a maid? Not that she did it.
But if they did, what size underwear did she wear?
Didn't Nancy Grace say they weren't JonBenets?
 
JBean said:
I won't argue it Buzz. There is no point. I believe it based on all the homework I have done. We all have access to the same information and are drawing different conclusions. so it goes.


ps: I got my phone call from the sea today

Hi JBean! :)

Hung jury is what you are describing. Hunter wanted a 'sure thing'! There is never a sure thing going in to a trial ;)

ps Hope is was a good call. I rec'd a call today too, time to shutter up.Not a good call.
 
Buzzm1 said:
If I was John Ramsey, and the media swarmed me, more than once, let alone my son on his first arrival at his dorm, I would also want to leave the U.S.. I have seen the media in action, and it isn't a pleasant sight, especially if you happen to be in the middle of them, and don't want to be there, and they have hounded you for ten years..
I can't believe the R's haven't left the US earlier.
You'd think it would have been less stressful for PR in her last years living away from media attention, away from the US.
 
"Hung jury is what you are describing. Hunter wanted a 'sure thing'! There is never a sure thing going in to a trial"

LaMer, you just hit it! Don' believe the movies! There's no such thing as a "sure thing." I've studied true crime for years, and I have YET to find a case where every single puzzle piece fit together as kosher as a movie. It just doesn't happen. You don't have to reinvent the wheel.

"Well, I am just not sure that they did this. I know parents everyday, murder their children and abuse them. But with this case, the way JBR was murdered. I just do not want to believe that they would do all this to their little girl. I just can't believe it, I just can't go there. It has to be proven to me that they did it. I just don't know how a parent could do this. I can't comprehend it or I just don't want too.
Do you understand what I am trying to say?"

I do understand. I was there. I felt the same way. But a few years of studying the horrible things parents have done to their children cured me. It might you, in time.

"If they did this, there should have been something that would have pointed directly to them."

The fibers are the best thing against them.

"And if there was, why wasn't something done about it."

Weak DA and million-dollar lawyers.

"I mean how could they cover for this horrible crime. Wouldn't you think they could break one of them?"

They wanted to! They wanted to do what the Brooklyn cops did with Lisa Steinberg's parents.

"michelle,then neighbors will tell the cops,hey the R's took the car out in the middle of the night--well,it worked for Wayne Williams for a while,he threwa lot of bodies in the river---still its quite risky"

Yeah, let's let tiretracks lead right to the body.

"This isn't something the parents would do, as staging, if they hadn't known anyting of these kinds of sexual practices."

They fact that it was staging means they didn't HAVE to know about it.

"I have heard that the reasoning behind some people think that the garrotte was built on her body was because her hair was tangled in it.

Why isn't it possible that the garrotte was built PRIOR to being wrapped around her, and then her hair got tangled in it during the wrapping and/or twisting of the garrotte????"

You don't understand, julianne. The hair wasn't tangled in it, it was tied into the knots!
 

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