CO CO - Garfield Co, WhtMale 35-65, 789UMCO, skeletal in tent, Sep'04

How did he get all that equipment up there himself?
With a bad back yet?
A man who also was researching the case said that it was very possible and no doubt probable that he rented a donkey to haul all that up there?
Of course the donkey would have had to have anowner and help him I would guess?
The thing is though ..to get to the area to begin his hike
was it by ..bus....car...train....plane?
I did not research the airports or public transportation there.
what do you all think?
If he took public transportation to that spot he could be from very far away ha?
Lots of guys from all over go hunting there.My guess is he used to hunt there at one time?
 
It would seem that this man was at least somewhat experienced in Wilderness hiking and camping. He had a tent and was comfortable in it - brought his ciggarettes and lighter. The whistle may have been part of his survival gear - used for signalling or calling for help.

The bells and pepper spray were probably carried because he was aware of how to survive in bear country. Bells worn on clothing, give bears a warning that you are coming and they have a chance to get out of your way. The pepper spray is used in case they don't.

His writing might indicate that he was planning suicide, or it could also be that he was terminally ill and wanted to die out in the wilderness rather than in a hospital or home. It is also possible that he simply went for his hike and fell ill or had a heart attack while alone. His note could have been about that as well - but probably would have been more specific about his symptoms.


---------------------------------------------------------------

too bad the notebook is in such bad shape?
As I said someplace before....
I was told that a forensic artist is working on getting some type of face put to him that should help a lot crossing fingers and toes ....
 
Bumping.... matches another post on body found near Glenwood Springs, Colorado....
 
Bumping.... matches another post on body found near Glenwood Springs, Colorado....

It doesn't just match it, it's the same case. :)
 
This is an interesting case and with everything they have to work with...it really should be solved.

I noticed when I blew up the notebook that it says "Dear ____", but it looks far too long of a name to be just "Lib". Did anyone else notice that? It seems to be at least 5-6 letters or more instead.

This person was well equiped to be out in the wilderness. He was very used to hiking and camping. (I thought it was odd he took foam earplugs tho, so must mean he was a light sleeper.) I think the maps they found were his due to all of the other equipment they found. If he bothered to pack everything else so carefully, including games, notebook, and compass...maps would have been included.

It doesn't sound like a suicide to me at all or one that went into the woods to die. He obviously became incapacitated for some reason and could not make it out. If he were going to end it or know the end was going to come eventually...he wouldn't have gone to such great lengths to bring all that gear. Weather probably became a factor in his demise.

Someone mentioned renting a mule, but they would have records of such activity. It is possible the Lib person went to find help and did not make it out either.

I found it intriguing he would specifically mention a glider. When you are considering ways to dispose of your ashes...this isn't a normal request. It tells me Lib might be quite an adventurer, but obviously...this man didn't care for flying much as he mentioned he wouldn't get sick. (He had a sense of humor.)

If there were a carton (20 packs) of cigs...he probably had already smoked a few packs along the way. For a person to smoke two packs a day is pretty normal if they are a heavy smoker, which I would think this man was. People who are addicted to ciggies ALWAYS make sure they have enough and enough lighters, too. (Nothing worse than having smokes and nothing to light them with!) This would only have been enough for ten more days.
 
Speaking again about the back pain - my uncle has back issues (I believe a kind of arthritis in the spine), severe enough that his doctors expected him to have surgery by now. He found that, in his case, running actually alleviates the pain. So he makes a point to get his several miles of running in every day and does not have much pain.

It could be similar for our John Doe, or he could simply be the stoic type who will not let a little thing like excruciating pain limit them in any way. I think that if you're a really serious outdoorsman, you have to be somewhat stoic about these things as you're likely to experience discomfort on some level when you're out in the wilderness. The point is that you conquer those obstacles to make your own way.

As far as his belongings go; he definitely was not a minimalist with his gear, but serious hikers who have not bought into the superlight hiking method will often haul up to 100 lbs. on their back.

I agree with those who say that he got into some sort of trouble; perhaps weather or maybe he got sick.
 
The Doe Network: Case File 789UMCO
http://doenetwork.org/cases/789umco.html

Unidentified White Male

The victim was discovered on September 8, 2004 in the Flat Tops, White River National Forest, Garfield County, Colorado
Estimated Date of Death: No longer than 5 years prior to discovery
Skeletal remains

Vital Statistics
Estimated age: Late 40s to late 50s, but could have been anywhere from 35 to 65.
Approximate Height : 6'0"
Distinguishing Characteristics: Forensic examiners say he suffered from severe degeneration in his back and neck and was most likely suffering severe back pain.
Dentals: Available. The man had extensive dental work, including gold work, crowns, bridges and fillings in almost all his teeth, suggesting the man had money.
Clothing: A pair of size 9M Timberland brown-and-black hiking boots.
Possessions: Located was fragments of sleeping cushion, fragments of blue backpack, a yellow-green plastic poncho, parts of a brown sleeping bag, blue hairbrush, two plastic zipper bags, Six $100 bills, one $10 bill, one $5 bill, five $1 bills , green Eureka dome tent, blue-and-black Jansport backpack, green camping pillow, black belt with clinging long underwear fragments, Slumberjack sleeping bag, empty Tylenol bottle, eight multicolored butane lighters, one magnifying glass, one compass, fingernail clippers, bell, spoon, pepper spray, 20 packages of Camel unfiltered cigarettes, Butane stove with two fuel cans, sweetwater water-filtration kit, pocket-sized Battleship game, round red-and-blue canteen, two green plastic military-style canteens, pair of sunglasses, pair of reading glasses, silver Sharper Image binoculars, "4 in 1" Radio Shack game, two drinking cups, aluminum cooking pot, pair of tweezers, package of foam earplugs, package of razor blades, tent repair kit, pair of blue wool socks with duct tape around the toes, roll of duct tape, two National Geographic trail maps of the Flat Tops.
Other: A pocket-sized, spiral notebook with a green cover with hand-drawn artwork depicting a heart and some figures inside the heart, including what appears to be a cat.
The first page, addressed to "Lib," begins, "I should wait in case my situation here doesn't improve. This may be the end of my journey."
"Would like for you to claim the body . . . services or memoreal. Cremation."
The CBI found the next section illegible, although individual words such as "I" and "thought" and "favor" or "flavor" could be made out.
On another page, more text could be discerned, but the CBI analysts said the writer's point is not clear. That sections reads, "Third choice take them up in a glider (I promise not to get sick on you," before becoming illegible. Some common words - "this," "you" and "not" - are identifiable.
On yet another page, the writing apparently goes, "ar on the . . . would you call her...d have it sent...you because I . . . want it to . . . where." Analysts also interpreted a recovered fragment to read, "be . . . er . . . my . . . s are going."

Case History
The victim was located September 8, 2004, by bow hunters in a remote area north of Glenwood Springs. The site is in the drainage of No Name Creek at about 9,700 feet elevation, about 6 miles as the crow flies from Glenwood Springs, but 12 miles by the Transfer Trail out of town.
The skeleton revealed no cause of death and the sheriff's office has been assuming it probably was natural.
The man was found in a tent at a campsite in a wooded, remote location. His trousers had rotted away, but the date of currency found at his campsite indicates he apparently had been there no longer than five years.
The letter leaves open the possibility the man was suicidal, although there is no reason to believe he killed himself. Perhaps he was terminally ill and chose to take his life. The man also could have succumbed to unexpected illness or injury while on an outing in the Flat Tops.
Much about the case is conjecture, including a theory that the man entered the Flat Tops Wilderness at a trailhead on the north and hiked four or five days across elevations of 11,000 feet before setting up his tent on a southern drainage at about 9,700 feet. That theory is supported by two moisture-proof National Geographic trail maps of the Flat Tops with a route drawn across them to the area where the remains were discovered. But it's possible the man picked up the maps someone else had marked and left behind.

Investigators
If you have any information about this case please contact:
Garfield County Sheriff's Office
970-945-1377, Ext. 1025
or
Crime Tips
970-384-3625

You may remain anonymous when submitting information.

Agency Case Number: 04-1656

NCIC Number: Not Entered
Please refer to this number when contacting any agency with information regarding this case.
 
I have added the UID's Doe Network entry in the post preceding this one.

Found a few possibilities -
Riley Norman Hunter - missing August 1992 from Colorado Springs
http://www.theyaremissed.org/ncma/gallery/ncmaprofile_all.php?A200301527W
Joseph William Segur - Missing October 2003 from New Mexico
http://www.theyaremissed.org/ncma/gallery/ncmaprofile_all.php?A200401444S

For reference: Riley Norman Hunter was identified in May 2010 as a body found in Tennessee in 1993.

Joseph William Segur is still missing and had scoliosis that might have explained the UID's back and neck degeneration, although the amount of information in the Doe Network entry makes me believe that we would have been told if the UID had been found to have scoliosis in particular.

Joseph William Segur
NamUs MP #626: https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/626/
Charley Project: http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/segur_joseph.html
NCMA: http://www.theyaremissed.org/ncma/gallery/ncmaprofile_all.php?A200401444S
 
I've done some back country hiking, both here and in the west -- this man's equipment strikes me as pretty normal for a few days' hiking. Tent, sleeping bag and pad; water; cooking equipment; safety equipment like compass, maps, whistle, bear spray; and some entertainment. He's not well equipped for cold weather, though, and doesn't appear to be carrying any spare clothing, storm gear, or the like. I also don't see anything in the way of food listed.

Older man, bad back and a heavy cigarette habit, far out in the back country with equipment for good weather -- the signs are all there for somebody likely to get himself into some kind of trouble. The wilderness can be very unforgiving. My first guess would be that he hiked in via the route marked out in the maps -- I see no reason to assume they aren't his -- and ran into an unseasonable snowstorm. Tried to wait it out, ran out of food, eventually died of either exposure or starvation.

A couple of things make me wonder whether somebody was with him: the earplugs, and the two cups. That's not something you usually carry an extra of. Maybe "Lib" or whoever tried to walk out for help. Didn't make it? Didn't come back for whatever reason?
 
Joseph William Segur is still missing and had scoliosis that might have explained the UID's back and neck degeneration, although the amount of information in the Doe Network entry makes me believe that we would have been told if the UID had been found to have scoliosis in particular.

I agree that we probably would have been told about that but apparently scoliosis can be misdiagnosed or undiagnosed, as it may not be noticeable to the patient until later life. If the UID had merely self medicated, calling the UID's condition scoliosis (if that is what it was) might have led family to rule out as curvature of the spine may not immediately have been visible to them.

That said the full post mortem would have identified it, and this could be the basis for an easy rule out - but I wouldn't do so based only on the publicly available information.

That said, I don't think Segur is our guy: he was on food stamps and hadn't touched his bank account. This doesn't fit with a guy who had >$600 in cash. He was wearing shorts with his hiking boots at home - fine in NM, not so much in the Colorado mountains. (Although if he were doing that, crazy as it may be, it would explain why his pants were "rotted" - could rotted pants actually just be frayed shorts?)

Oh and someone posted this on YouTube: sounds very promising, if legitimate.

could the body really been there that long? Someone in GJ dropped my ex off 'in the wilderness' with a backpack spring of 2004.

description very simiular as well as belongings. hee suffered from severe backpain - but he would always pony up to get out in the wilderness. The divorce in spring of 2004 was a surprise - he was distraught and no one knows why - or has seen or heard from him since.
 
Oh and following up the details from the YouTube posting, I'm pretty sure I have

1. A MySpace;
2. A surname;
3. An address;
3. An approximate date of birth indicating that she would have been 52 in early 2004 when her ex was last seen, i.e., the right age to have been in a relationship with the UID.
 
I agree that we probably would have been told about that but apparently scoliosis can be misdiagnosed or undiagnosed, as it may not be noticeable to the patient until later life. If the UID had merely self medicated, calling the UID's condition scoliosis (if that is what it was) might have led family to rule out as curvature of the spine may not immediately have been visible to them.

That said the full post mortem would have identified it, and this could be the basis for an easy rule out - but I wouldn't do so based only on the publicly available information.

That said, I don't think Segur is our guy: he was on food stamps and hadn't touched his bank account. This doesn't fit with a guy who had >$600 in cash. He was wearing shorts with his hiking boots at home - fine in NM, not so much in the Colorado mountains. (Although if he were doing that, crazy as it may be, it would explain why his pants were "rotted" - could rotted pants actually just be frayed shorts?)

Oh and someone posted this on YouTube: sounds very promising, if legitimate.



:woohoo:
So glad a few more people are trying to help ID this fellow besides me .Now if [WE ]could only get a reconstruction done!
We need a face!:dance:

Try and remember[ sometimes] you can dismiss the clothing they were last seen wearing.Some people do not have a exact description and so?
Just try and go by some ,of this, and some of that.
His glasses are pretty common wire frames.
and if you look at their shape?
They are sort of AVIATOR?
opinions please?
 
Oh and following up the details from the YouTube posting, I'm pretty sure I have

1. A MySpace;
2. A surname;
3. An address;
3. An approximate date of birth indicating that she would have been 52 in early 2004 when her ex was last seen, i.e., the right age to have been in a relationship with the UID.

That one does sound promising. They seem to be basing date of death off the currency in his pocket, not anything more concrete.
 
Here is a recently posted story about an unknown camper found by hunters some five years or so after his death... It is more recent than the "Mr. Bones" case of Bedford, PA. Maybe this one can be solved.
--------------------------------------
Unidentified White Male
The victim was discovered on September 8, 2004 in the Flat Tops, Garfield County, Colorado
Estimated Date of Death: No longer than 5 years prior to discovery
Skeletal remains
Vital Statistics

Estimated age: Late 40s to late 50s, but could have been anywhere from 35 to 65.
Approximate Height and Weight: 6'0"
Distinguishing Characteristics: Forensic examiners say he suffered some discomfort from degeneration in his back and neck.

Possessions: Among other evidence found there were a map of the Flat Tops, numerous packs of Camel cigarettes, a lighter, whistle, bell and some pepper spray.

Link:
http://www.doenetwork.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercalcaemia

It may be possible his bone calcum had been being forced into his bloodstream due to illness. Happened to my sister when she had cancer, she had two vertebrae bassically collapse. I wonder whether they examined the calcium content of his other bones, or just noted the spinal degeneration?
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercalcaemia

It may be possible his bone calcum had been being forced into his bloodstream due to illness. Happened to my sister when she had cancer, she had two vertebrae bassically collapse. I wonder whether they examined the calcium content of his other bones, or just noted the spinal degeneration?

I had wondered about something like that, too. With a heavy smoker, it seemed like something that could happen.
 

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