Victim: Alexis Murphy, 17, missing from Shipman, VA, 03 August 2013 - #4

So far in MSM articles, we have stories of

Alexis walking with a white man on 29 in the past

RAT walking/seen around with a black man in the past

RAT walking alone on 29 in the past

RAT seen Mon. Aug 5 with a blonde female and a ? with long hair

RAT spent " all- day" Mon Aug 5 with son

"A black male, mid- to late 20s, cornrows and a 20-year-old burgundy Caprice with 22-inch wheels," Hallahan said.

A young white RSO who lives closer to AM's home - on TN Hwy.

4 hours of shopping/hanging planned- with whom? if anyone

odd SM comments concerning meeting her for the 1st time that weekend from someone she did not know

last phone use/ping 7:20 pm- her checking her voice mail and last tweet 6:40

Gardenlady said:

I can't even picture cornrow guy hanging with him. I think of my youngest family members, late teens to mid twenties, and the idea of any of them smoking a joint with RAT (including the ones that I know do smoke on occasion) is unfathomable to me. Especially the young women, but even the guys wouldn't either. Maybe sell him a bag, but hang out? In his trailer, on that property with the nasty house? No way.

I do agree RAT is cunning though. I'm sure his story is well thought out. This isn't his first time tangling with LE.

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I agree, my gut feeling is that they don't share the same social circles in any way. Even with a possible "pot connection" I just don't see it. Stranger things have happened but I just don't see it. I wonder if anyone has ever seen RAT having contact with cornrow in the past?

So many new developments... twinbaby PLEASE call in the tip and keep us updated!!

Gardenlady said:

Yeah there is no way this story happened. Like I said earlier, at 17 I would have run screaming from some creepy old white dude looking like RAT, and I am positive Alexis would have as well. Well, maybe she would have said hi if he greeted her, but there is no way on this earth that she'd have hung out with him, hooked him up with pot, gone ANYWHERE with him, or said anything beyond a polite hello.

I think this guy is guilty as sin for both Alexis and Sam's abductions (and who knows what else :furious: ), but I also am pretty darn disturbed by the LE conduct reported in the earlier case. It is SO important to ALWAYS hold LE to a high standard, and not let that type of bending of the rules happen - even for those who are most certainly guilty. Not only does it open the potential for ruining any potential prosecution, but it also erodes the rights of everyone - law abiding folks included.

I am still hoping that with the early involvement of the FBI, they have avoided any kind of shenanigans with procedure, searches, etc, this time. Because I DO think he is the one responsible in both these cases.

Someone in one of the comments section after one of the articles sarcastically referred to RAT as some kind of Bermuda Triangle for teenage women. That what are the chances this dude just happens to have two young women of nearly the same age be last contacted/see with/around him before they disappeared? And then he just happens to have the perfect story all lined up. TWICE. GMAB.

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Totally agree with that. The rights and procedures are what protects all of us.

What I'm concerned about is that in LE's eagerness to nail RAT, they might have jumped the gun.

Yes, they found her hair in his trailer, but that means they ALREADY HAD A WARRANT TO SEARCH THERE. What evidence did they have to get the warrant? Just suspecting him of a previous crime and seeing him on video leaving the parking lot is not enough probable cause to justify a warrant to search his property. But I'm afraid they might have overstated the evidence to get the warrant, and later on a judge is going to throw it out. And that will mean that they can't use any evidence that they found based on that warrant--which in this case could wind up covering nearly all the physical evidence.

I hope I'm wrong. But their conduct in the SC case makes me worry.

cluciano63 said:

Did I read, last night, that her last phone ping was from Cannery? If so, why wouldn't her phone have pinged again once she "drove away" by herself at the same time as this "other guy"?

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Answer is obvious, IMO. With evidence being kept so close to the vest, there's a distinct possibility that surveillance shows the gas station exit and there might be just enough video of her car turning on to the highway heading south. Which could be why they're not letting up on this guy. Remember, he doesn't know the evidence so he's just throwing darts at a board.

carbuff said:

I hope I'm wrong. But their conduct in the SC case makes me worry.

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But remember, there are different agencies involved this time. I am hoping because the FBI is involved all the Ts are crossed and Is are dotted.

I have not read/heard LE give any statements about what they did or did not find at RAT's, or else I've missed something. But interrogation 101, cops can and will lie to a potential perp to get them talking. So RAT is backing himself into a corner based on info/evidence the cops have told him they have which might not even be the truth to begin with. Keep talking RAT :floorlaugh:

margarita25 said:

Oh my gosh, this reminds me of something funny that happened during a discussion in Terrilynn's thread...(might've been a joke, or it might've really happened, can't remember). Something along the lines of:

2 WS members were out sleuthing the same location individually on the same day (unbeknownst to each other).
Later they were back talking in here, and after a post was made, Bessie said in response, "That was you at the bank?" :biggrin:

(I think it might've been Bessie....)

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:silly: GREAT WS Story! :great:

KDub said:

ETA: Also, what are the chances that this guy could, just happen, to be associated with 2 girls who turn up missing after communicating with him? He'd be one terribly unlucky guy.

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SBM

Like one of the commenters in one of the articles said, RAT seems to be the Bermuda Triangle of young girls.

IMO...there might be some shaded truth to some of the things RAT has said...since he is attempting to cover his tracks. Since he mentions meeting her 'weeks or a month before' at a car wash in Lovingston...there must be others that can prove he had actual come into some form of contact with her at that point. I don't believe for a second that this encounter was just RAT & AM...this was a group of people. IMO...this is when he began stalking her.

I do not believe it was coincidental that they ran into each other at the gas station. RAT initiated conversation with her...asking how to score more of that pot from the first time he met her. He doesn't NEED her help in getting some pot...this is his opportunity to talk to her, bait her, or simply to make sure she was alone, etc.

AM had plans to go to L-burg...she tweeted it & told her mom. She wouldn't cancel her plans to score some pot for some creepy 48 yr old white ex-con! Then you add that she not only made the 'hook-up' but then met the dealer & followed ex-con & dealer to ex-con's creepy camper to sit there...not smoking, not drinking, not tweeting, not texting...all the while being satisfied she cancelled her plans to hook this guy up? NOT!!! AM did not willingly go to his camper!

The big question I have on his side of the story - MH says that RAT wasn't the last person to see AM on Aug 3rd - but that RAT knows who was. How does RAT know this black unidentified male was the last person to see AM (by RAT's own account) if AM & unidentified male left his camper at the same time in SEPARATE vehicles??

I apologize this is all so choppy! Of course this is all MOO! And to add...there is way too much coincidence to the SC case for this just to be RAT is a poor innocent man!

I think the car wash incident is the one Alexis' Aunt spoke of and recognizing him from the car wash.

Also, RAT could have simply seen cornrow out and about and grabbed the beer from a trash can, or could have hitched a ride with cornrow and said he would take care of the beer bottle.

forestchilde said:

But remember, there are different agencies involved this time. I am hoping because the FBI is involved all the Ts are crossed and Is are dotted.

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That's another question. Why are 50 FBI agents searching that house and property over a local abduction? I know they get involved in kidnappings but that's usually one or two guys coming in to give advice, or maybe an evidence team if the locality or state doesn't have one. As we saw in Morgan Harrington's disappearance, Charlottesville has a very fine police force and the Virginia State Police are one topnotch outfit with some of the best resources in the country. But in those shots from last night, there's a swarm of FBI guys. That's way more than advice.

I called the tip line and reported what I know which isn't really anything, but they were appreciative.

I explained that I have seen him the past couple of days at the school. Also, we were on Route 151 and this is about 20 minutes from the Liberty. When we got to the end of 151 I turned right onto 250 east heading towards Charlottesville and he turned left onto 250 west and headed towards Waynesboro.

I left my name and number and told them to call with any additional questions.

carbuff said:

Totally agree with that. The rights and procedures are what protects all of us.

What I'm concerned about is that in LE's eagerness to nail RAT, they might have jumped the gun.

Yes, they found her hair in his trailer, but that means they ALREADY HAD A WARRANT TO SEARCH THERE. What evidence did they have to get the warrant? Just suspecting him of a previous crime and seeing him on video leaving the parking lot is not enough probable cause to justify a warrant to search his property. But I'm afraid they might have overstated the evidence to get the warrant, and later on a judge is going to throw it out. And that will mean that they can't use any evidence that they found based on that warrant--which in this case could wind up covering nearly all the physical evidence.

I hope I'm wrong. But their conduct in the SC case makes me worry.

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Samantha Clark was a different jurisdiction though. Whatever the police did in Orange county has nothing to do with how Nelson county operates. This man's antics are well known. Certainly, he might have though he was doing himself all kinds of favors giving an interview to the Hook, but all that did was clue in LE, chapter and verse, what to do, what not to do regarding him. Plus, I believe local LE was collaborating with FBI for the whole week before they made the arrest.

IHAVENOCLUE said:

Jumping off your post...

and I think Astrokitty mentioned this up thread..

but I wonder which car wash AM and RAT "supposedly" had the original pot conversation...

and I hope LE/FBI are scouring the CCVIDS at that place to see if there is any evidence of this...

Locals... Which/where could that car wash be?

TIA...:seeya:

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Probably the one at the corner of Northside ln and Orchard St. It's in plain site of 29, doubt anyone is hanging out smoking up there unless its at night. Right across the street from Rapunzel's, a local coffee shop/music venue that's very popular among local youth and hippies.

For those unfamiliar with the demographics of Nelson, it's about 40% country/southern culture, 20% African American, 20% hippy, and 20% everything else.

Great Sleuthing everyone! I just noticed something and I thought I would share. I apologize in advance to the sleuther that provided the link, I cannot remember your name. Anyway, I clicked on the VA State Police link for Sexual Offenders....typed in 'Lovingston' and BAM~ there is a sex offender there with the last name Breeden! I don't know if that is a coincidence or not, but it's interesting. I am from a small rural area in VA and Breeden is a common last name here. I just find it interesting because the Rt. 29 Stalker was said to use the alias 'Larry Breeden'. I know RAT has been ruled out in the ASR case, but maybe he could be a POI in other possible Rt 29 cases? JMO.

http://sex-offender.vsp.virginia.gov/sor/executeCitySearch.html

NelsonVA said:

Probably at the one at the corner of Northside ln and Orchard St. It's in plain site of 29, doubt anyone is hanging out smoking up there unless its at night. Right across the street from Rapunzel's, a local coffee shop/music venue that's very popular among local youth and hippies.

For those unfamiliar with the demographics of Nelson, it's about 40% redneck, 20% African American, 20% hippy, and 20% everything else.

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I respectfully disagree with this.

carbuff said:

That's another question. Why are 50 FBI agents searching that house and property over a local abduction? I know they get involved in kidnappings but that's usually one or two guys coming in to give advice, or maybe an evidence team if the locality or state doesn't have one. As we saw in Morgan Harrington's disappearance, Charlottesville has a very fine police force and the Virginia State Police are one topnotch outfit with some of the best resources in the country. But in those shots from last night, there's a swarm of FBI guys. That's way more than advice.

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I think you answered your own question.

Morgan's unsolved case, SC's unsolved case, ASR's, and others, all in or near what some consider a very prestigious town. All underage (I think).

popsicle said:

I just remembered something. Early reports were that Alexis was going to meet two male friends in Lynchburg to shop. Is rat trying to say those 2 guys are them?

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Good memory, Popsicle...

we may want to keep this bit of information in mind...

Not to incriminate the two guys...

But they may be able to help out...

when/how did they discover AM wasn't going to show up?

What did they do next? (Look for her? Contact friends? Etc..?)

JMO

Twinbabyg said:

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I respectfully disagree with this.

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Fair enough, what would you say the percentages are? Those are the main demographics though, albeit with some overlap between them. Unless its changed at the HS since 2007, which is certainly possible.