FL - Abraham Shakespeare, 42, lottery winner, Polk County, 7 April 2009 #7

http://www.hcso.tampa.fl.us/About-HCSO/Press-Releases/Releases/2010/February/10-041.aspx

Sheriff Gee placed his death as sometime between 4/6 and 4/7/09. At .54 on the first video, Sheriff Gee states he is reading from the affidavit that:
"Between April 6, 2009 and April 7, 2009, at an unknown hour, Abraham Lee Shakespeare was murdered within the residence located at 5732 Highway 60 east in Plant City, Florida".
So, that was my question. If they knew he was murdered between 4/6 and 4/7/09, then why didn't they put 4/6 or 4/7/09 on page one of the criminal affidavit where it said date of offense. It made no sense to me at all why they charge her with murder and then don't put the date they later say he was murdered on. So, ACR provided me with a very plausible explanation. The charge is premeditated murder and that may be the first date they can prove she did something to plan for this murder, such as bought a gun or made the video of Abraham. It is the only thing that has made sense to me as to why they would put a different date on the cover of the criminal affidavit. If that is the case, which it sounds right, then why didn't they follow it up within the criminal affidavit and say something like, "On 4/1/09, Dorice did (whatever the premeditated act was)"? Maybe they did and I just missed it, but I couldn't find it. The criminal affidavit has already been shown to be in error on the property transfers. But the explanation ACR gave is a pretty good one.
I don't know why they decided date of death was 4/6 - 4/7/09. I'm pretty sure that after that much time, they couldn't pinpoint it by the condition of the body to a specific date. I thought it was possible that they could have found something in his clothing or in his wallet with a date on it, like another lotto ticket with a 4/6/09 date on it. There were several people who said they saw him alive on 4/3/09 when he supposedly signed the power of attorney, including the person who notarized it or witnessed it, whichever it was. There may be a cell phone call he made to someone that they found in the cell phone records who remembers the call and can say it was definitely him. I think some of the answers we will have to wait until the trial to get, if ever.

https://www2.myfloridacounty.com/ccm/do/docket?county=53&data=f7bfb1c6e0626256cf713224998b7470
To see what is going on with Troy Young's case, see link, enter his name. It will be the Troy McKay Young. Select that one. Next page, click on the case number for full docket.

wanttohelp said:

Since this is obviously posted to me, imo the statement clearly mean Abraham was shot sometime between April 1- April 13. As NG always says premeditation can happen in a second, so they don't have to give extended dates for the purpose of premeditation. The only things a murdered after April 3 time line is based on is:
1)a newspaper quote
which we have seen be wrong
2)what people at a doc being notarized have to say
that of the docs we have seen that day the verified ID section is not filled in
Though I don't really know why only my theory is being sought after to proove wrong.:waitasec:

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NO, this WAS NOT obviously meant as a post to you. I was not thinking of you or anybody on this forum or their theories when I made the post. I was simply posting back to tigergal71 on the news link she/he provided then adding my own thoughts and opinion as to why *I thought* LE might have included the April 1st date.

Perhaps you're being a little sensitive. I personally am on no mission to prove your theory, or anybodies theories for that matter, to be right or wrong. If I do find a quote from the media or from official affidavit's then I do post it here but it's just information.

Theories and brainstorming is good, and I more than welcome others correcting something I may have posted in error. That's what keeps us sharp and on our toes. I'm sorry if you feel I personally targeted you but that's so far from the truth.

ACR

Guys, guys.... :truce:

Seriously, hope I didn't bring a negative vibe here. That stuff gets contagious and I'll kick myself if I did that.

You know what I love about this thread? The teamwork, dedication and intelligence wrapped up in here just blows my mind.

This thread is really what this site is all about. It's useful for LE in a big way and I for one have learned a lot from you guys. Abraham will get justice.

I have more questions I'm waiting to ask when I get my laptop back. Hope you all are here to help me sort through them.

Susan"There were several people who said they saw him alive on 4/3/09 when he supposedly signed the power of attorney, including the person who notarized it or witnessed it, whichever it was."

I apreciate the link attached with this post but can you please provide the info regarding this statement. or are you saying you "believe" he was killed those dates? Because like I keep saying this aboved snipped by be concerns a notary of what we have seen from that day DOES NOT fill in the section of how Abraham was identified. The other people who would have been there are DEEDEE and Haggins which I dont base much upon what they say.

wanttohelp said:

Susan"There were several people who said they saw him alive on 4/3/09 when he supposedly signed the power of attorney, including the person who notarized it or witnessed it, whichever it was."

I apreciate the link attached with this post but can you please provide the info regarding this statement. or are you saying you "believe" he was killed those dates? Because like I keep saying this aboved snipped by be concerns a notary of what we have seen from that day DOES NOT fill in the section of how Abraham was identified. The other people who would have been there are DEEDEE and Haggins which I dont base much upon what they say.

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I could be remembering erroneously, but I believe his cousin (can't remember her name) who was very close to him had seen him on 4/3. I'm not certain on that, and I can't remember where that info came from....Maybe somewhere in my mixed up head and it's not correct???
Also, I am kinda going with what the Sheriff's office released at first....That he was killed 4/6 - 4/7. For the simple fact that "his cellphone usage dropped dramatically at that time". They have cellphone records, so they're able to tell who he was talking to, etc. Those people have been questioned about those calls, and I think that's why they stated the 4/6 - 4/7 dates.
It's already been pointed out that there's numerous inaccuracies with the company names in the CRA, so without having an actual date of the killing, they went with the 4/1. Don't know why it wouldn't have been 4/6, but maybe the purchase of the backhoe has them thinking he could have been killed before 4/3. But wouldn't explain the cellphone usage situation.

I dunno, just my opinion and throwing it out there!

wanttohelp said:

Susan"There were several people who said they saw him alive on 4/3/09 when he supposedly signed the power of attorney, including the person who notarized it or witnessed it, whichever it was."

I apreciate the link attached with this post but can you please provide the info regarding this statement. or are you saying you "believe" he was killed those dates? Because like I keep saying this aboved snipped by be concerns a notary of what we have seen from that day DOES NOT fill in the section of how Abraham was identified. The other people who would have been there are DEEDEE and Haggins which I dont base much upon what they say.

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I have no idea when he was killed because I don't know who you can believe and who you can't believe among the people who said they saw him after 4/1/2009. Not even saying they are lieing. April 2009 was almost a year ago. I wouldn't be able to remember who I saw or what I was doing April 2009 unless it was attached to something like a birthday or a holiday.
Sheriff Gee said he believed he was killed sometime between 4/6 and 4/7/09. The link is where Sheriff Gee cites those dates as when he was killed. I gave you the exact place he says it on that video tape. If he says Abraham died between 4/6 and 4/7/09, then I assume that they can prove he was alive prior to those dates. I'm sure they have a lot more information than they are giving out to the public and I believe we may have to wait until the trial to find out exactly why they chose those dates. They do say in the criminal affidavit that his cell phone usage changes after 4/6/09. They may have followed up on those calls prior to 4/6/09 and verified those calls were made by Abraham to the people called. I don't know that, just assuming they have their reasons and that could be one.
So, if the Sheriff places his death between 4/6/09 and 4/7/09, they must somehow know he was alive before those dates. The Sheriff gave those dates after the criminal affidavit was written, he was holding it in his hands and reading from it during the press conference where he announced those dates. Yet they put 4/1/09 as the date of the offense, and ACRs theory works for me, as the first date they can prove she did something they can prove was premeditated.
I'm not sure what your theory is. Do you believe he was killed on 4/1/09 and that he never signed the POA, that someone forged his signature and the people involved lied about it? If Dorice killed him on 4/1/09 and then forged his signature, why wouldn't she put a date prior to 4/1/09 on the POA? Also, she would have left his body sitting around from 4/1/09 until at least 4/3/09 when she bought the backhoe. Exposure to the air would have decomposed the body quicker. But they were able to get fingerprints within a day of finding his body so it does not sound like the body had decomposed that bad. Very often it takes many days to get fingerprints from an aged, decomposed corpse.
I think you are saying that because the notary did not give the type of ID he used to identify Shakespeare, he may have notarized a signature of someone posing as Shakespeare and he did not get proper ID. So do you think that Shakespeare was murdered prior to the POA being signed?
I don't think time of death can be pinpointed to a specific date after this long based on the condition of the corpse. As I said before, they may have found something in his pocket or in his wallet, like a lotto ticket dated 4/6/09 that could have placed a date. But short of that, I would think the only way they could date the time of death between 4/6 and 4/7/09 would be by being able to prove he was alive before that date. I doubt that the autopsy would be that specific, but I could be wrong.

Dee Dee Moore to be arraigned Monday on new charges

snipped, including misspelling:
A grand jury indicted Dorice "Dee Dee" Moore last week on pre-meditated murder. Prosectors also dropped the "accessory after the fact" murder charge and added a new charge of "interception of wire or oral communication."

Link.

cholzsch said:

Unfortunately, I don't see how the new charge will stick. The meeting was in a public park, where there is no expectation of privacy.



Source: link

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Just wanted to bring this quote forward, as I tend to agree that I can't see how the charge will stick if it was in a public park and the law makes an exception to recording where there is no expectation of privacy, like in a public park. Thanks, Cholzsch.

Snipped from the link:
"Florida law makes an exception for in-person communications when the parties do not have a reasonable expectation of privacy in the conversation, such as when they are engaged in conversation in a public place where they might reasonably be overheard. If you are operating in Florida, you may record these kinds of in-person conversations without breaking the law."

I am hoping they can bring some additional charges that will stick, like Dorice stealing Abraham's property or Stitzel's interference with an ongoing missing person's investigation by lieing to the police about having talked to Abraham in October or his helping transfer the property and mortgages to Dorice without funds being transferred. But I suppose if his debts are crushing him, he's already experiencing some karma.

I don't know when exactly I believed he was killed but I believe by April 3 Haggins was in on it with Deedee. I also don't completely believe Haggins account of the casino night. Yes the call can be checked out but no way of knowing the real convo.

so on the other docs notarized 4/3 lets try to figure out the witnesses.
link

link

i think the one iks haggins, but what are some thoughts for the other?

Do we have anything that we know is Haggins signature yet? I believe I read somewhere, don't remember where, Haggins says she filed the POA at the Polk County Clerk's office, or am I wrong about that? I know it is not showing up under any of our searches, but is it possible that is one of the documents you actually have to go to the Clerk's office to review in person? Or could we call the clerk's office to see if it was ever really filed? I believe I also read she used the POA to close bank accounts and/or sign legal documents. Again, this is just from a faulty memory. I'll go check the Polk County records to see if she maybe signed a mortgage.
Do we know her middle name? I have a Judith D Haggins, but to me it does not look the same:
http://tinyurl.com/ydq8lfv
Could be a different Judith Haggins, though.
Can't get the link to go to the right place, but go there and search her name as Haggins Jud without the rest of the first name. It comes up as the last one, Judy. Then you can compare.

Susan1 said:

Do we have anything that we know is Haggins signature yet? I believe I read somewhere, don't remember where, Haggins says she filed the POA at the Polk County Clerk's office, or am I wrong about that? I know it is not showing up under any of our searches, but is it possible that is one of the documents you actually have to go to the Clerk's office to review in person? Or could we call the clerk's office to see if it was ever really filed? I believe I also read she used the POA to close bank accounts and/or sign legal documents.

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From some discussion a couple weeks ago, or so, it was stated that a POA wouldn't show as filed unless it was USED for signing a document or doing some other legal business under it. I didn't recall any reports of usage of the POA, but that doesn't mean anything.....there's so MUCH to this case it's hard to keep up with everything!

wanttohelp said:

so on the other docs notarized 4/3 lets try to figure out the witnesses.
link

link

i think the one iks haggins, but what are some thoughts for the other?

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I studied the other one, and don't even have a GUESS!!! Why do you suppose it isn't required to print your name on these types of documents as well as sign them?? Anyone can scribble some illegible name like that!!!!!!

The two links show documents that are dated 1/15/09. According to the criminal affidavit, page 6, "On February 11, 2009, Judith Haggins, a longtime friend of Abraham Shakespeare, met Dee Dee Moore through Abraham Shakespeare and soon became a business associate of her (Moore). If she didn't meet Dorice until 2/11/09, then she wasn't there to sign those particular documents on 1/15/09. Although it does not look like the same signature over at the County Records, it does look like it could be JHa.. from there on, it could be anyone. I totally agree about they should have to either print or type the name under the signature. This is just fraud waiting to happen.
Okay, I went to the source and saw page 2 where Ambrose Austin notarizes the document on 4/3/09. Even crossed out the January and entered the April.

blue mermaid said:

Dee Dee Moore to be arraigned Monday on new charges

snipped, including misspelling:
A grand jury indicted Dorice "Dee Dee" Moore last week on pre-meditated murder. Prosectors also dropped the "accessory after the fact" murder charge and added a new charge of "interception of wire or oral communication."

Link.

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On the Hillsborough Co court docket, the "date of offense" for the "interception of wire or oral communication" charge is listed for 12/11/2009. Interesting, that was the last date Dee Dee was here on Websleuths babbling away until she posted the same day, "I can't post here anymore."

ACR

I went back and grabbed that post. 1:35PM. Do we know what time the meeting in the park was?

" #424 12-11-2009, 01:35 PM
Dmoore
Registered User Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 39

I can't post here anymore. I just found out why one of you are so negative toward me. You are related to one of the people Abraham loaned very large amounts of money to. You want me discredited so you don't have to pay anything. I already told them to let you know you can keep the money if you have to steal it. That was to retire Mrs. Shakespeare, so I hope you enjoy it. It's not worth my life and stop having people call in with all your bogus calls. It's a waste of their time and mine to. The Sheriff's Department has real cases that need to be solved. They have all the paper work on me, bank accounts, and more. I have not sent them to your place of business to investigate you.

When Abraham comes back he can deal with you in court himself. I'm not going to waste my time. Everyone knows that lives here what your doing, so don't think for one minute they approve of it. I will make sure it goes public if you continue to stalk me. "

Also, anyone here who has a grasp on the law who knows what charges Dorice could still be facing? And Stitzel?

Susan1 said:

I went back and grabbed that post. 1:35PM. Do we know what time the meeting in the park was?

" #424 12-11-2009, 01:35 PM
Dmoore
Registered User Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 39

I can't post here anymore. I just found out why one of you are so negative toward me. You are related to one of the people Abraham loaned very large amounts of money to. You want me discredited so you don't have to pay anything. I already told them to let you know you can keep the money if you have to steal it. That was to retire Mrs. Shakespeare, so I hope you enjoy it. It's not worth my life and stop having people call in with all your bogus calls. It's a waste of their time and mine to. The Sheriff's Department has real cases that need to be solved. They have all the paper work on me, bank accounts, and more. I have not sent them to your place of business to investigate you.

When Abraham comes back he can deal with you in court himself. I'm not going to waste my time. Everyone knows that lives here what your doing, so don't think for one minute they approve of it. I will make sure it goes public if you continue to stalk me. "

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This brings up a question I had back in late January when I read this babbling crap from her......
Any clue who she was referring to? Whether truthful or lies (I'd bet on LIES) I'd still like to know who she was talking about.....Any thoughts?

I just figured when she wrote that she figured out she couldn't hold her own here, no one believed her (we all were closed minded to the possibility she was innocent, according to her) and she was making up another one of her delusional lies. She couldn't admit that she was fighting a losing battle. I don't think there was anyone on here at that time who owed either Shakespeare or her money. Same thing for the stalking nonsense. Just like her lie about "when Abraham comes back he can deal with you in Court himself". She knew Abraham wasn't coming back. She is a pathological liar.