McCanns launch new appeal

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Well I'm not going to get into any unproductive old McCann-bashing arguments about the FACT that the they left their children in the apartment. They'e never denied it. It happened, Madeleine was abducted and I'll bet no-one regrets that more than her parents. However, I am of the school which believes that if a gate gets left open and a bull bolts, you get looking for the bull. You don't stand around arguing about who left the gate open. There has been so much stinky brown stuff written about the case and then perpetuated on the Internet and quite frankly, I am gobsmacked that it's still making the rounds.

IMO, the people who want to bash the McCanns will bash them regardless of what decisions they took. They were criticised for staying in Portugal and then criticised for coming home. Gerry McCann was criticised for staying off his work and then criticised all the more for returning to work. They are currently being criticised for launching another appeal in Portugal. For sure if they hadn't done so, they'd have been criticised for that too.

IMO these are hard-working, decent people who made a seriously bad judgement and who suffered the worse possible consequence of it. They have to live with that and I'm really glad I'm not in their shoes. However, I do have a shred of humanity and I'd never kick someone when they are down. I couldn't justify that to myself let alone anyone else.

However, there is one consolation. The McCanns are strong people who are really only interested in getting Madeleine back. They have stood strong against the (fortunately decreasing) attacks on the Internet. Attacks which can't hurt them any more than living with the abduction of their daughter and the knowledge that it could have been avoidable. Then again, if they had stayed in their apartments that night, perhaps we'd be discussiong the abduction of a different child.

Incidentally, the McCanns have also been working tirelessly on projects which will help missing children in the future. This has not been hugely publicised a) because the people they are lobbying are not the general public and b) because the McCanns are not doing it for personal glory but to achieve an end result which will benefit everyone.


Hi Jayelles, I appreciate your post, but you start it out with the unproven premise that Madeleine was abducted, stating it like it is a fact.

In the very beginning of the case the police ran with the idea abduction could be a possibility, with great encouragement from the English LE. They found no evidence of that and the dogs sealed the fate of an abduction theory IMO

I also don't believe if the Portuguese authorities had any evidence against the McCann's they would have been arrested immediately.

When Kate was made an Arguido it has been written the police wanted to arrest her at that point. It wasn't done, possibly as the political air with the involvement of the Englilsh powers that be, as they were stiffling.

Also we have learned that the Portuguese move at a much slower pace than we do here in the States or in England. It is just their way of meting out Justice and works for them. It is my fervent wish that one day soon the last piece of the puzzle will fall into place and Madeleine will have Justice.

xox
 
Well I'm not going to get into any unproductive old McCann-bashing arguments about the FACT that the they left their children in the apartment. They'e never denied it. It happened, Madeleine was abducted and I'll bet no-one regrets that more than her parents. However, I am of the school which believes that if a gate gets left open and a bull bolts, you get looking for the bull. You don't stand around arguing about who left the gate open. There has been so much stinky brown stuff written about the case and then perpetuated on the Internet and quite frankly, I am gobsmacked that it's still making the rounds.

IMO, the people who want to bash the McCanns will bash them regardless of what decisions they took. They were criticised for staying in Portugal and then criticised for coming home. Gerry McCann was criticised for staying off his work and then criticised all the more for returning to work. They are currently being criticised for launching another appeal in Portugal. For sure if they hadn't done so, they'd have been criticised for that too.

IMO these are hard-working, decent people who made a seriously bad judgement and who suffered the worse possible consequence of it. They have to live with that and I'm really glad I'm not in their shoes. However, I do have a shred of humanity and I'd never kick someone when they are down. I couldn't justify that to myself let alone anyone else.

However, there is one consolation. The McCanns are strong people who are really only interested in getting Madeleine back. They have stood strong against the (fortunately decreasing) attacks on the Internet. Attacks which can't hurt them any more than living with the abduction of their daughter and the knowledge that it could have been avoidable. Then again, if they had stayed in their apartments that night, perhaps we'd be discussiong the abduction of a different child.

Incidentally, the McCanns have also been working tirelessly on projects which will help missing children in the future. This has not been hugely publicised a) because the people they are lobbying are not the general public and b) because the McCanns are not doing it for personal glory but to achieve an end result which will benefit everyone.

Starting with the assumption that she was in truth abducted, based only only on the relatively small (and disputed evidence) is from the get-go, a nonstarter and completely illogical.

Personal opinions of the McCanns as hard working or decent people are just that--opinions. The facts are there and the evidence--or lack of it--is there as well.

The fact that the McCanns have been working "tirelessly" on "projects which will help missing children in the future" has nothing to do with the reality of Madeleine's actual fate. Those two realities exist independently of each other.

It is also completely illogical to say that but for their leaving their child alone, another child might have been abducted. That's about the same as saying, 'If I hadn't run over YOUR cat, I might have run over someone else's!" Or, "If you hadn't left your purse in your unlocked car, I might have stolen someone else's." Perhaps everyone else would have had much better foresight and basic common sense; but this argument again, presupposes Madeleine was truly abducted.

Personally, I believe that the McCanns may very well work "tirelessly" well into the future as a way of assuaging their guilt over leaving Madeleine alone that night and sacrificing--as they saw it--her proper burial for the sake of the twins. They need not have my approval

Facts so far, not opinions:

The McCanns left their children alone on more than one night, thus leaving open the possibility of an accident occuring to any of the three young children.

The McCanns' timeline and those of the Tapas 9 diners differ and the actual accounts vary widely in time and scope.

The shutters that the McCanns claim were "jemmied open" show little or no damage. They claim that the abductor must have come in through an open, unlocked door (the actual unlocked door also was changed in their accounts as to which door was left unlocked) and then left, carrying Madeleine through the window.

The McCanns allowed their friends to enter the apartment and contaminate the evidence although Kate insisted from the beginning that Madeleine had been abducted. (Interestingly enough, the words she used to her family were, "She's gone.") As doctors, they had some basic awareness of preserving crime scenes, DNA evidence, etc, but they did not allowed this to happen all the same. Even with a contaminated crime scene, no fibers, fingerprints, or trace evidence of an intruder was ever recovered.

Blood evidence did not rule out Madeleine's unexplained presence in the boot of the Renault. The blood evidence as tested by British FSS did not allow for the presence of any other human being as no markers were found that could not have belonged to Madeleine.

The cadaver dog and the blood evidence dog both hit upon the same spots in the car and the Renault. Dogs, highly trained and very successful ones, have no personal bias or opinion. They know nothing or care nothing about the McCanns.

You say that the McCanns made a "seriously bad judgment" but if you read everything they have ever said, you will see that at no time did they ever admit or accept that they had bad judgment. They not only defended their decision, they even said they would make the same decision again. They have to this day never spoken out against against the practice of "baby listening" which supposedly as an accepted practice, gave them the confidence to leave their children alone. The fact--and not the opinion here--is that the McCanns have never acknowledged that in any way they used bad judgment.

So the people insisting that their child was abducted are the same people who in your opinion, used "seriously" bad judgment" and yet don't admit to even a hint of that. That in and of itself, is a fact that should make one pause before leaping to their defense.
 
Madeleine was kidnapped? Oh wow. Some new news at last on this case. When has it ever been confirmed that she was kidnapped?

A link to the confirmation please?

TIA

If and I say IF the attacks are decreasing its only because our press wont press anything negative on the McCanns. Otherwise i can assure you it wouldnt be decreasing at all. ..but again..if they want them to stop let them take lie detector tests..let them do reconstruction..let them speak to the pjs...because otherwise its all just show sorry.

You've got me there. I mispoke and should have said abducted.
 
If you had followed the case you would know there was a number of texts that the pjs wanted to be used in evidence. They was texts made during the day of her "disapperance " and the days following it.

Well I have followed the case via what I consider to be the most reliable sources - namely the BBC and newspapers like the Guardian. I take tabloid stories with a pinch of salt.

I don't recall ever reading about text messages other than unsubstantiated claims on an anti-McCann forum that the McCanns most recent text messages had been deleted.

I'd be really interested to read about this if you have a source for it.
 
Hi Jayelles, I appreciate your post, but you start it out with the unproven premise that Madeleine was abducted, stating it like it is a fact.

In the very beginning of the case the police ran with the idea abduction could be a possibility, with great encouragement from the English LE. They found no evidence of that and the dogs sealed the fate of an abduction theory IMO

I also don't believe if the Portuguese authorities had any evidence against the McCann's they would have been arrested immediately.

When Kate was made an Arguido it has been written the police wanted to arrest her at that point. It wasn't done, possibly as the political air with the involvement of the Englilsh powers that be, as they were stiffling.

Also we have learned that the Portuguese move at a much slower pace than we do here in the States or in England. It is just their way of meting out Justice and works for them. It is my fervent wish that one day soon the last piece of the puzzle will fall into place and Madeleine will have Justice.

xox

Hi Scandi. As I see it, the only thing we know for certain is that she was taken from the flat and without concrete evidence that she was dead at the time, I believe that would be abduction until proven otherwise. Of course some people might believe she wandered off herself, but even then, her ultimate disappearance suggests that she must have been taken by whomever found her.

There is not one shred of doubt in my mind that she was abducted as her parents have claimed she was. Now whilst I have been a long term fencesitter in the Ramsey case, I wouldn't bet my bottom dollar on the Ramseys being innocent. I concede that the Ramseys had means and opportunity to murder their daughter even if I think it's unlikely they did so. As I see it, the McCanns had neither means nor opportunity to murder their daughter and then dispose of her body.

Everything the McCanns have done speaks to me of their non-involvement. From their remaining at the resort for four months to their desperate trip to see the Pope.

I think this case will be solved when someone speaks out. It might take a relationship to break down for that to happen.
 
I watched the video of the dog in the car compound for the first time this morning and I'd be astonished if it were to be admissable in court.

For starters, the McCann car was the ONLY one the handler stopped at and the ONLY one the handler remained at. The dog didn't seem interested in the car at all and ran off FOUR times only to be called back by the handler. It was also the ONLY car the handler tapped.

Had the handler remained for an equal length of time at each car and tapped each car, I would have considered it more significant but it looked very much as though the dog was being directed towards the McCann car.

Fortunately, the video is freely available for anyone to verify what I've just stated :)
 
Hi Scandi. As I see it, the only thing we know for certain is that she was taken from the flat and without concrete evidence that she was dead at the time, I believe that would be abduction until proven otherwise. Of course some people might believe she wandered off herself, but even then, her ultimate disappearance suggests that she must have been taken by whomever found her.

There is not one shred of doubt in my mind that she was abducted as her parents have claimed she was. Now whilst I have been a long term fencesitter in the Ramsey case, I wouldn't bet my bottom dollar on the Ramseys being innocent. I concede that the Ramseys had means and opportunity to murder their daughter even if I think it's unlikely they did so. As I see it, the McCanns had neither means nor opportunity to murder their daughter and then dispose of her body.

Everything the McCanns have done speaks to me of their non-involvement. From their remaining at the resort for four months to their desperate trip to see the Pope.

I think this case will be solved when someone speaks out. It might take a relationship to break down for that to happen.

For the record - who said the McCanns killed there daughter? I personally believe she died accidentally. And yes they had the means for this to happen when she was being left alone such a lot and yes..there was means to dispose of her body - especially when its not known for a fact when she was last seen by anyone rather than the McCanns or there friends.

I guess we are in a different boat. For me everything the McCanns has done has spoken of there involvement.

Regarding the visit to the pope ( when they according to her mother was nt even religious) - when that Butterfly landed on Kate I actually thought it was Madeleines spirit come to say she was ok.
 
I watched the video of the dog in the car compound for the first time this morning and I'd be astonished if it were to be admissable in court.

For starters, the McCann car was the ONLY one the handler stopped at and the ONLY one the handler remained at. The dog didn't seem interested in the car at all and ran off FOUR times only to be called back by the handler. It was also the ONLY car the handler tapped.

Had the handler remained for an equal length of time at each car and tapped each car, I would have considered it more significant but it looked very much as though the dog was being directed towards the McCann car.

Fortunately, the video is freely available for anyone to verify what I've just stated :)


No offence but those dogs are amongst the best in the world at what they do - and there handler knows exactly what to do with them.

They recently found bones from children that had died in a childrens home from 40 years ago. They are just awesome. MOO
 
Attacks which can't hurt them any more than living with the abduction of their daughter and the knowledge that it could have been avoidable.
What evidence is there of an "abduction of their daughter?"
 
Well I have followed the case via what I consider to be the most reliable sources - namely the BBC and newspapers like the Guardian. I take tabloid stories with a pinch of salt.

I don't recall ever reading about text messages other than unsubstantiated claims on an anti-McCann forum that the McCanns most recent text messages had been deleted.

I'd be really interested to read about this if you have a source for it.


No offence but maybe thats the problem. I am British...and I can tell you for a fact that most of us are disgusted by the British press regarding this case.

Regarding the texts messages there was a number of them -18 i think sent immediately before and after her "disappearance". The pjs wanted these texts to be used in evidence. There was possibly emails also not sure. No this isnt tabloid nonsense..i actually saw the court paper work for it about a year ago now. The Pjs went to court and it was over ruled that they couldnt use them because they hadnt got permission for a tap before doing it ( because surprise surprise) they was slow our end in co operating.
 
No offence but maybe thats the problem. I am British...and I can tell you for a fact that most of us are disgusted by the British press regarding this case.
Isabella you might want to take a look where Jayelles is from. :)
 
Isabella you might want to take a look where Jayelles is from. :)

The fact remains that most people here are disgusted with the way its been reported here in the British Press.
 
Starting with the assumption that she was in truth abducted, based only only on the relatively small (and disputed evidence) is from the get-go, a nonstarter and completely illogical.
Didn't you know fingerprints were found in the apartment that the PJ couldn't link to any known people.
Who's to say none of them belong to Madeleines abductor!
Facts so far, not opinions:

The McCanns left their children alone on more than one night.
They never denied this. In FACT it was the McCanns themselves who told the PJ.
The McCanns' timeline and those of the Tapas 9 diners differ and the actual accounts vary widely in time and scope.
Not true and misleading!

Their timelines did not vary widely - in Fact no more than is natural for any group of witnesses.
The shutters that the McCanns claim were "jemmied open" show little or no damage. They claim that the abductor must have come in through an open, unlocked door (the actual unlocked door also was changed in their accounts as to which door was left unlocked) and then left, carrying Madeleine through the window.
Texana can you link the report that proves the McCanns really "changed" their statements please?

In their panic they were trying to work out exactly what happened and thought the shutters may have been forced - There is nothing strange about this.
Except of course for those who want there to be.
The McCanns allowed their friends to enter the apartment and contaminate the evidence although Kate insisted from the beginning that Madeleine had been abducted. (Interestingly enough, the words she used to her family were, "She's gone.") As doctors, they had some basic awareness of preserving crime scenes, DNA evidence, etc, but they did not allowed this to happen all the same. Even with a contaminated crime scene, no fibers, fingerprints, or trace evidence of an intruder was ever recovered.
Perfectly natural for them to panic when they realised Madeleine was missing no matter their work - And as Any parent would have.

And the PJ should have had much more than a basic awareness of preserving crime scenes, DNA evidence, etc, shouldn't they Texana?
But the PJ didn't have any awareness did they?

And they didn't have the added trauma of their children being missing either!!
Blood evidence did not rule out Madeleine's unexplained presence in the boot of the Renault. The blood evidence as tested by British FSS did not allow for the presence of any other human being as no markers were found that could not have belonged to Madeleine.

The cadaver dog and the blood evidence dog both hit upon the same spots in the car and the Renault. Dogs, highly trained and very successful ones, have no personal bias or opinion. They know nothing or care nothing about the McCanns.
Not true!
Madeleine shared very close DNA similarities to the twins and her parents.
They couldn't confirm - therefore couldn't rule any of the DNA either IN or OUT regarding Madeleine.

And there was NO evidence there was ever a dead body in the car.
Which is why abduction is still on the table - as confirmed by the PJ.

And read the dog handlers conclusions too as they are the experts and know their dogs best - and they don't agree with you.
You say that the McCanns made a "seriously bad judgment" but if you read everything they have ever said, you will see that at no time did they ever admit or accept that they had bad judgment. They not only defended their decision, they even said they would make the same decision again. They have to this day never spoken out against against the practice of "baby listening" which supposedly as an accepted practice, gave them the confidence to leave their children alone. The fact--and not the opinion here--is that the McCanns have never acknowledged that in any way they used bad judgment.
Have you missed the FACT the McCanns have said they regret not being with Madeleine when she needed them most!!
They have also said very clearly that they let her down!!
So it's obvious they know they made an error of judgement.

Just because you choose not to like their choice of, or lack of certain words sounds very much like a poor excuse to continue to labour a none existant point.

Texana I do wonder why you always seem to critisize everything the McCanns say and do regarding Madeleine?

You know even with the law of averages they would occasionally have to get something right.
 
The fact remains that most people here are disgusted with the way its been reported here in the British Press.
Not buying it Isabella. :rolleyes:

Now if you were talking about the hate sites you seem to be fond of that would be different.
 
Not buying it Isabella. :rolleyes:

Now if you were talking about the hate sites you seem to be fond of that would be different.

To be honest I dont care what your buying. I really dont.

The facts are most of the people here are disgusted about the way this case was treated in our press. They are disgusted by Gordon Browns involvement. The facts are in a daily paper when a poll was held on the front page the vast majority thought the parents knew what happened. The facts are when a paper ( and not a tabloid) actually opened its site for comments it was bombarded by people furious at the McCanns. I did in fact put a link to that here.

Im sorry if you dont like facts but - facts are facts sorry. MOO
 
I am sure they may actually do something right - one day. I have just never seen it yet myself. The funny thing..every time they try and do something in the media they just succeed in making people even more mad.

MOO
 
There is NONE! MOO

You have a little girl that went missing and family and friends that cant keep a story straight so go and figure.

And what part do you attribute to the tabloid press in the reporting of these stories? Or do you just believe all of them and attribute the discrepancies to the friends and family?

Seriously, do you accept tabloid reporting as gospel truth? Do you think the variations in reporting about Jade Goody's final weeks were down to her not being able to keep her story straight?
 
For the record - who said the McCanns killed there daughter? I personally believe she died accidentally. And yes they had the means for this to happen when she was being left alone such a lot and yes..there was means to dispose of her body - especially when its not known for a fact when she was last seen by anyone rather than the McCanns or there friends.

I guess we are in a different boat. For me everything the McCanns has done has spoken of there involvement.

Regarding the visit to the pope ( when they according to her mother was nt even religious) - when that Butterfly landed on Kate I actually thought it was Madeleines spirit come to say she was ok.

So you don't believe that Madeleine could have been abducted, but you believe she might have turned into a butterfly?????
 
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