17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #25

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Emma Peel said:
Hmmm...

I agree with rhornsby.
I don't think JO did poorly.
I think LO and CBlow came across a bit over the top.

Have we learned anything about where GZ & JO worked?
Did JO really leave work to help out GZ? Is it possible his workplace gave him a paid leave, and JO is just respecting his employer's privacy on that issue?
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Digital Risk
 
songline said:
I think that Oliver is a good friend who spoke to the point and was interviewed by a bear...
Lawrence O’Donnell GILLED Oliver and then spun too.

OLIVER held his own. Yes he is a good friend, and is interfamily related too...
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Even if you are interviewed by a bear, if you are telling the truth your story doesn't contradict itself.

Which JO's does.
 
I think in the long run it is going to be important what is exactly said on the police report about George's back.

Officer Smith never said anything about grass stains. He said George's back was wet and covered in grass as if he had been laying on his back.



grass-1.jpg




Pretty important evidence to just let go and have him ride in the police car and lean against a wall in the police station with.

No stains, just loose grass.



http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf
 
csziggy said:
Would the prosecution get to ask Taaffe about his background?
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I don't know how much leeway they'll have there in the beginning, but I feel certain that Mr. T will say something that opens the door wide enough for the prosecution to drive a truck through.
 
Adrienne37 said:
Bumping l.b.nora's post 714. Just as he said, Oliver had a whole lot of interviews at the beginning of this case and if I recall correctly, there was some references made that "George told me this, George told me that" so yes, if he stated something in any of them, no matter how mundane they may seem, he can be called as a witness.



~jmo~
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okay.
thanks for this Adrienne. I will make a point to catch up and watch them soon.

fessel usually bonks me on the head with this stuff I've missed but I think he's watchin' the tube & letting y'all do all the work.

anyway, appreciate it.
 
IzzyBlanche said:
Why?

I am very interested to understand why you think Joe Oliver was "good" for RZ when he's contradicting himself all over the place, IMO.
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Well, I think when Joe Oliver explains that the word "goon" is sometimes used as a term of endearment, it really helps us to better understand the situation that night.
 
Dr.Fessel said:
I think in the long run it is going to be important what is exactly said on the police report about George's back.

Officer Smith never said anything about grass stains. He said George's back was wet and covered in grass as if he had been laying on his back.



grass-1.jpg




Pretty important evidence to just let go and have him ride in the police car and lean against a wall in the police station with.

No stains, just lose grass.



http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf
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oh, there you are. :D

gotta tell richard that. :yes: I agree. Gosh, the altercation evidence is the key evidence here. For realzies.

The confused friends trying to support GZ on TV? Not so important. Although I know you're lovin the "go with that story" quote. :giggle:
 
Emma Peel said:
I noticed this is a complaint filed 23 years ago?



Respectfully, how do we leap from a complaint filed 23 years ago to a conclusion that "Joe Oliver has shown some very bad judgement in the past"?

Was this complaint thrown out? Was it struck down? Was it settled? Did it go to trial? Do we have the documentation that explains Joe's role and how it was his responsibility?

This doesn't show bad judgement to me. It shows the guy was working in media back then, though.
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I agree with this. I so do not want people holding against me the bad things I did or poor judgement I exhibited in the past. I'd have no friends and most of my family might have disowned me.

Ok, nothing terrible or criminal but I was thoughtless, I ran my mouth a few times when I should have kept quiet and I hurt some people by my deliberate acts. Thank heavens we all get older and our true friends and family are willing to forgive us.

I hold someone in a public position to a higher standard, all the time remembering they are just human too.
 
Karmady said:
Not a big fan of personal anecdotes, but that's not always enough to stop me!

The bridge of my nose has been broken several times. You can't tell at all unless you look really closely exactly where I tell you to or if you touch it. Then it is really obvious. My nose remains small and otherwise straight to the point that people comment on it once they know it's been broken multiple times. Once it broke the first time, the future breaks came easily and were along the same path.

:twocents:
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Ouch! MrJC had his nose broken twice and said the same thing about his.
 
Velouria said:
I don't know how much leeway they'll have there in the beginning, but I feel certain that Mr. T will say something that opens the door wide enough for the prosecution to drive a truck through.
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I really think Francis Taaffe is a loose cannon. I don't think Zimmerman's lawyer can stop him and I think he is about scared to try.

In my book Taaffe could flip to the other side in the blink of an eye. He is loving this spotlight. All IMO
 
LolaMoon08 said:
BBM Could you expand on this?
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I am not trying to speak for Songline, but I believe the reference is to JO saying that GZ's MIL is a close friend of his (JO's) family.

JO says that in the link I posted earlier.
 
LolaMoon08 said:
That is what I assumed... I just never knew that? So it's new to me? Good to know though! This explains RZ saying they had "black family" and that GZ "mentored black children." Which, IMO, would mean his own nieces or nephews!

IF it is true he belongs to that family?
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NOoooo! I mean no, Lola, he doesn't.

Joe Oliver's wife is friends with GZ's mother-in-law. That's it. No relation through blood or marriage.
 
I give up

G'night all

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I7vPbthvWo"]The Outer Limits intro - YouTube[/ame]
 
Okay, so Digital Risk.

I just looked at their website. Mortgage Loan work-out company.

Did we ever learn what GZ did, specifically for Digital Risk?

It could be clerical, data-entry, bookkeeping, collections, appraisals, insurance, or physically driving around to properties completing reports or doing property condition punch lists, property maintenance ...

I can see if he worked for this firm, why he might think about law. But not criminal law - Real Estate law.

Any ideas what work he did for them?
 
FESSEL! YOU BLEW THE MARGINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:trout:
 
JeannaT said:
It's a perspective of what caused what here, and I think reasonable people can disagree.

Same with the analogy of the child getting killed by being run over. You can disagree, and be reasonable, that it was his running into the street that caused it, or you can be reasonable in a perspective that it was the car running over him that killed him.

You can say Trayvon is dead because GZ followed him, or you can say Trayvon is dead because a physical altercation started, which may very well have been begun by Travyon.

Phrasing it differently, and continuing to state that if GZ had stayed in his car Trayvon wouldn't be dead won't change the perspective of those who believe (and the law is on our side) that it's not a crime to follow someone and he was within the law to do that.

At some point here, we're going to have to decide that each perspective is valid, it just depends on how you view the world and causal relationships.
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Okay, I can speak from personal experience here- I was hit by a car at age 13, and lived to tell about it. I did NOT run out into the street, in fact, I was in a crosswalk when it happened. It completely was the driver's fault (a highschooler who was speeding) who hit me and it was a hit & run. I think he was caught. I was already in the crosswalk when it happened on my way to school right across the street from my house. Happened first thing in the morning, so I was tired. When I realized the bumper was coming extremely fast toward me, I couldn't think "RUN", all I could think was "WALK FAST!!!" (I was like a deer caught in the headlights) I wasn't able to get out of the way in time, I blacked out as I was hit and came to in mid-air, and again after I landed on the ground.I still today have no actual memory of the moment of impact. I was told that I hit the hood of the car and flew off.
Even if a child were to run out into the street, it is completely the responsibility of the driver (a car is a weapon) to attempt to stop/brake in time!!!
 
songline said:
I think that Oliver is a good friend who spoke to the point and was interviewed by a bear...
Lawrence O’Donnell GILLED Oliver and then spun too.

OLIVER held his own. Yes he is a good friend, and is interfamily related too...
Click to expand...

Yes it's nice of Joe Oliver to speak up on GZ's behalf. A show of loyalty would be important to a man in GZ's position. I can see considering him a good friend for sticking his neck out.

But he isn't "close" enough to GZ to be a "credible" friend. Joe Oliver didn't even know GZ's been doing Neighborhood Watch for the last couple of years. Didn't know he'd had violence charges with his previous girlfriend, etc.

Seeing someone maybe five times a year and talking about how good the turkey tastes does not a "close" friend make. Oliver telling America "no way" would GZ act depraved doesn't count for much.

The people using this site possibly know more key stuff about GZ than Oliver does.

Other than that, I think the compliments paid to Oliver are due to his ability to remain calm and not flee the studio. He looks good on camera, he's articulate, he's not easily flustered, he pushes through and comes up with some kind of response. Yes, that's commendable. Not everyone can hang under pressure, and Oliver deserves credit for that.

O'Donnell seems to be going for the Mike Wallace-style "ambush interview." 99% of people can't hang with this kind of hostile interview. But Oliver sure tried!!

He deserves credit for remaining composed throughout and not running off in tears. But I doubt that he succeeded in persuading any viewers that GZ the mild-mannered guy he "knows."

O'Donnell & Company tore this man to shreds, like a pack of hungry wolves.
 
Emma Peel said:
Okay, so Digital Risk.

I just looked at their website. Mortgage Loan work-out company.

Did we ever learn what GZ did, specifically for Digital Risk?

It could be clerical, data-entry, bookkeeping, collections, appraisals, insurance, or physically driving around to properties completing reports or doing property condition punch lists, property maintenance ...

I can see if he worked for this firm, why he might think about law. But not criminal law - Real Estate law.

Any ideas what work he did for them?
Click to expand...

underwriting, iirc...I'll say jmo, because I'm going from memory! :)
 
JBean said:
Well, I think when Joe Oliver explains that the word "goon" is sometimes used as a term of endearment, it really helps us to better understand the situation that night.
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:rofl:

yeah. they got him there on that one. it seems he did finally agree that effin' goon was probably not affectionate. :rolling:

he really put his neck out for GZ, though. why would he do that?
do people really think he did that for some sort of gravy train?

do you think JO regrets sticking his neck out?
 
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