IL IL - Debbie Fijan, 10, DuPage County, 11 Feb 1966 - #2

Abbey5 said:

Debbie's brother Jack posted here over two years ago that detectives had visited his mother in FL (six years earlier) to collect a dna sample. So, eight years ago they got a dna sample from Debbie's mother and since then we do know that the cold case unit in DuPage co. was disbanded and started back up again, maybe three years ago. Jack did state that he had talked to a detective and could not discuss the case on WS.

The fact that they needed a dna sample from Debbie's mom still bothers me....was evidence lost, no longer usable or never collected at the scene. Its been eight years since they collected the dna sample from her. And we don't even know if the same detectives are working the case that were eight years ago. The detective assigned to the case over two years ago had not even looked at the files yet and he was in court for another case at the time. DuPage Co. cold case website has only nine unsolved cases...Debbie's is the oldest. There are three from the 70's, three from the 80's and two from the 90's.

I do believe Debbie's case can be solved with todays technology being so much better than it was in 1966. But I am very concerned about the amount of time that is put into this case. It has been 46 years since Debbie was brutally murdered and I think her family deserves to know who was responsible for her death.

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Last I emailed with the detective he had reviewed the file. Of course he could not share inside information with me, but I was confident it was being worked.

AFAIK, the detectives working the case two years ago are not the same that were working it 8 years ago.

I agree, her family deserves an answer. And I agree current technology can solve this case. As for the dna collected. I don't think evidence was lost, I just don't know how quickly forensics on cold cases is processed. Current cases would take priority and older samples take longer to obtain a viable dna sample/strand. We have to remember any dna is over 40 years old. They have limited samples to work with and in some UID cases, it has taken as long as 5 years to develop a viable strand (or whatever the scientific word is) with decades old UID's.

Quad said:

Dupage Co illinois does not have a good reputation for solving crimes

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Outside of Marlaina Reed's unidentified case which was featured on AMW several years back ALL of NE IL LE works very differently than what we are used to seeing here at WS. I'm not going to say it is good or bad, simply the way it has been done for a long long time and it doesn't appear to be changing anytime soon.

IL-"my" case on AMW-Marlaina Reed (Chicago Jan 2007)-William McIntosh - Page 9 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

I sent the following email to the detective handling Debbie's case. I will post any reply I receive, provided I have the detectives permission to do so.

Hi Detective Harris,

It's been some time since we've been in contact. I'm hoping there might be a status update you can share regarding Debbie Fijan's case. Even if it is a simple yes, we are making progress and the case file is not back collecting dust. Or perhaps you might be able to provide some information regarding the following questions - which I can then share with those following Debbie's case at Websleuths.

Has there been any evidence sent for processing since DNA was collected from Debbie's mother several years ago?

Has a dna profile been obtained for the perp? And is it in Codis?

Is there any evidence which you are currently waiting for information from the crime lab? Or in line to be processed at the crime lab?

Was there any evidence collected from Debbie's person, such as finger nail scrapings which might have been saved for blood evidence which can now be examined for DNA?

Is exhumption a possibility to determine if additional forensic evidence can be obtained which may not have been obtained back in 1966?

I certainly understand there is some information which you can not disclose publicly without impeding the investigation. So I would understand an answer to any questions, such as can't answer due to open investigation.

Many of us are still hoping and praying progress is being made in this case. Thank you for any information you are able to provide which can be shared publicly at WS.

Thank you,
<name omitted for privacy>

I'd still like to know if bite marks were found on Debbie's body. Certainly her family and LS would know if such marks existed because they sat through the grand jury.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...AAAIBAJ&pg=5565,4341696&dq=sally+kandel&hl=en


I still can't help but wonder if Debbie's case has gone stagnant because the possibility of considering Macek as opposed to Schofield would open a door for Richard Milone to sue the county for wrongful conviction. If Milone was even interested in doing so, he may not be at all interested. Even if he was not interested in suing the country for wrongful conviction, it would still be nice to have the record set straight here and scientifically prove his innocence with means which are available today which were not back in 1973. I happen to be of the opinion it was Macek and not Milone who murdered Sally Kandel. There is no doubt in my mind DuPage botched that case enormously.

Additonally, if LS knows he isn't responsible, why hasn't he taken the opportunity to try and right things so LE isn't continuing to bark up the wrong tree decades later?

Why wouldn't Milone or Schofield try and contact Kathleen Zellner, the defense attorney who represented Riley Fox's dad? She seems to be the one right there in DuPage County who could assist with sorting some of this out for both Milone and Schofield, if Macek were in fact responsible for both Debbie's and Sally's murder. After all their bodies were found, what about 1000-2000' apart, iirc?

http://www.kathleentzellner.com/zellner.html


Is someone going to tell us if Debbie had bite marks on her body? Or should I seriously consider ordering the autopsy reports via the FOIA act and post them here at WS as an attachment? SOMETHING needs to be shaken up in DuPage County to get some movement on this case.

We know Macek's victims had their eye's slit by a weapon/pen knife of some sort similiar to his WI victims. Sally also had slits in her eyes, iirc. We know from the information ShadowAngel uncovered Debbie shared those wounds with Macek victims. Did she also share the common bite mark?

It is well past time Debbie's family have some answers. I am going to see what I can do to get a copy of the autopsy report, or go to the county and view the copy myself.

On the other hand, if LS knows he is responsible he wouldn't dare try to right things. Too risky.
Generally people with something to hide stay silent.

I sure hope a viable dna strand has been obtained or is in the process of being obtained for the person responsible for murdering Debbie.

I sure hope if the DuPage County crime lab doesn't have the state of the art technology other jurisdictions are using, they aren't too proud to seek outside assistance through a private lab which could likely move things along much quicker.

Another question/comment with regards to the witness who saw a young girl wearing the same type of coat speaking to a male in a white vehicle a few hundred feet from Benjamin School.

Where did LS park that day? Where did the teachers park? The witness was reportedly the husband of a teacher who worked with LS who was at the school to pick up his wife.

Where was this witness when he saw a girl resembling Debbie talking to a man in a white car? LS owned a white car.

How on earth would LS drive the few hundred feet from Benjamin school to the location a young girl resembling Debbie was seen talking to a man in a white car? Did this witness pass the white car enroute to the parking lot at Benjamin school, or did he just notice the car while parked and waiting for his wife?

Did Debbie witness LS viewing *advertiser censored* at the school and did he have to harm her due to embarrasment and shame, fearful she would tell her parents or tell someone? Or did it go further than that and he was inappropriately interested in Debbie and something happen in his car which he felt he needed to cover up and ensure she would never tell?

According to MSM, there were several hours LS could not account for the late afternoon/evening of Debbie's disappearance and he would not provide LE with the route he took home the evening Debbie was murdered. Why?

As of this morning I haven't received a reply back from the detective handling Debbie's case. Don't know if he is on vacation or ???

Anyhoo, I have given it some more thought and I am not going to add any doc's here. I am going to see if I can view the autopsy report, simply for an answer to the bite mark question.

As soon as I have a baby sitter for a day that I can drive over to the court house I'll see about reading and replying regarding the bite mark. Not sure how soon I can get a sitter.

My fear in this is that the entire file on Debbie's case consists of one mimeographed (anyone under 30 can Google that term) form with a few illegible, hand-scrawled notes...

And no one wants to admit it.

I'm still wanting to know if Macek was incarcerated or not the day of Debbie's murder.

It would probably be time consuming, but we'd have to look at both county or state. I'd guess he might have been in Cook County Jail, if he were in jail. Elmwood Park, IL is in Cook.

We could probably do a NE IL county search and an IL state search.

I don't know what info will be available via the FOIA considering this is still an open case. And, I have read John Spira's sister had some trouble obtaining her brothers case file via DuPage even though they were court ordered to give her the info....

So we'll see. Those are two options available, bite mark via FOIA or a search to see if Macek was incarcerated or not the day of Debbie's murder.

shadowangel said:

My fear in this is that the entire file on Debbie's case consists of one mimeographed (anyone under 30 can Google that term) form with a few illegible, hand-scrawled notes...

And no one wants to admit it.

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Lol. It has to be more than that. There is more info in MSM, than I think would fit on a single page.

I'm kind of curious about exactly what kind of feathers were found in the trunk too. I know what we read about the carpet fibers, what about those feathers? Where they from the show and tell item, or from the farm?

Cubby said:

I'd still like to know if bite marks were found on Debbie's body. Certainly her family and LS would know if such marks existed because they sat through the grand jury.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...AAAIBAJ&pg=5565,4341696&dq=sally+kandel&hl=en


I still can't help but wonder if Debbie's case has gone stagnant because the possibility of considering Macek as opposed to Schofield would open a door for Richard Milone to sue the county for wrongful conviction. If Milone was even interested in doing so, he may not be at all interested. Even if he was not interested in suing the country for wrongful conviction, it would still be nice to have the record set straight here and scientifically prove his innocence with means which are available today which were not back in 1973. I happen to be of the opinion it was Macek and not Milone who murdered Sally Kandel. There is no doubt in my mind DuPage botched that case enormously.

Additonally, if LS knows he isn't responsible, why hasn't he taken the opportunity to try and right things so LE isn't continuing to bark up the wrong tree decades later?

Why wouldn't Milone or Schofield try and contact Kathleen Zellner, the defense attorney who represented Riley Fox's dad? She seems to be the one right there in DuPage County who could assist with sorting some of this out for both Milone and Schofield, if Macek were in fact responsible for both Debbie's and Sally's murder. After all their bodies were found, what about 1000-2000' apart, iirc?

http://www.kathleentzellner.com/zellner.html


Is someone going to tell us if Debbie had bite marks on her body? Or should I seriously consider ordering the autopsy reports via the FOIA act and post them here at WS as an attachment? SOMETHING needs to be shaken up in DuPage County to get some movement on this case.

We know Macek's victims had their eye's slit by a weapon/pen knife of some sort similiar to his WI victims. Sally also had slits in her eyes, iirc. We know from the information ShadowAngel uncovered Debbie shared those wounds with Macek victims. Did she also share the common bite mark?

It is well past time Debbie's family have some answers. I am going to see what I can do to get a copy of the autopsy report, or go to the county and view the copy myself.

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I don't think LS or Debbie's family heard from the grand jury if bite marks were on Debbie's body because the only people allowed in the grand jury room are the court reporter, the grand jurors, the prosecutor presenting the case, and the witness who is testifying. I'm sure her parents could have
requested a copy of the autopsy report. If they did, I don't know.

LS was questioned before a grand jury and was acquitted. He moved his family hundreds of miles away. He and his wife both had deep roots in the community that they left. LS's father died in 1967. I think LS ran scared out of IL. I think if LE had continued to question LS he might have confessed.
Why do you think he moved hundreds of miles away? He wanted to move away from all of the rumors and avoid further questioning and investigations. He went on with his life and continued to be active in his church and with the youth members in his church, while his wife went to a different church.

As far as Richard Milone, this guy probably didn't have the money to hire an attorney to go after the county for a wrongful conviciton. And I would guess, he was just happy to be out of jail.

I don't think Debbie's case is stagnant because of the Kandel case. Whatever went wrong with this case happened about forty years ago. I agree with you and think Macek killed her. I really don't see LE being afraid of being sued by anyone at this point. Yes, LE might have screwed up this case and there might have been some type of cover up and some deals done with Macek.


Daily Herald (Chicago, IL) Nov. 5, 1977.

RM confessed to to the murders of: Lossman, her daughter, Sally Kandel and Michelle Becker, 18, McHenry, found drowned in a nearby creek on 7/04/1975.

LE would not confirm or deny the confession in the Kandel and Becker case. But McHenry County Sheriff's Lt. George Hendle said, "We negotiated on the plea that Macek went down on and we're going to clear the case on Michelle Becker".


I don't think DuPage Co. has the money or time to persue this cold case. It has been forty six years since Debbie's murder. They collected DNA from Debbie's mother. I know it takes time but its been eight years since they collected it. My question is have they even begun to process it yet. And have they even done anything but read the case file yet?

Lord knows what kind of things went on in the mid 60s at crime scenes in the boonies and how prosecutors might feel about charging someone and trying a case like that today. I've spoken with several retired homicide detectives and they've told me local cops used to move bodies, and they themselves would attempt to pull slugs from corpses at the scene.

That said, we can't assume things were lost, that we know who all the best suspects were, or all of the important details of a case. On the other hand, as you know, old crimes still get solved, ones where it could be assumed evidence was lost, cops screwed up, etc. etc.

I've researched a case for quite a long time and learned an enormous amount of info about it. I came to the conclusion that I know a lot, but what could be known...all about the dynamics in the victim's, victim's family's, suspect's and person's of interest's lives in regard to the case...seems infinite. On top of that, the cops say, anyone could have done it but those who it could be proven could not have done it.

It's highly frustrating. But the more I know, the more I have to say to myself "you don't know everything about this case. The cops may not, either, but that doesn't mean this happened or that happened or this is going on. It just means it is what it is."

Abbey5 said:

I don't think LS or Debbie's family heard from the grand jury if bite marks were on Debbie's body because the only people allowed in the grand jury room are the court reporter, the grand jurors, the prosecutor presenting the case, and the witness who is testifying. I'm sure her parents could have
requested a copy of the autopsy report. If they did, I don't know.

LS was questioned before a grand jury and was acquitted. He moved his family hundreds of miles away. He and his wife both had deep roots in the community that they left. LS's father died in 1967. I think LS ran scared out of IL. I think if LE had continued to question LS he might have confessed.
Why do you think he moved hundreds of miles away? He wanted to move away from all of the rumors and avoid further questioning and investigations. He went on with his life and continued to be active in his church and with the youth members in his church, while his wife went to a different church.

As far as Richard Milone, this guy probably didn't have the money to hire an attorney to go after the county for a wrongful conviciton. And I would guess, he was just happy to be out of jail.

I don't think Debbie's case is stagnant because of the Kandel case. Whatever went wrong with this case happened about forty years ago. I agree with you and think Macek killed her. I really don't see LE being afraid of being sued by anyone at this point. Yes, LE might have screwed up this case and there might have been some type of cover up and some deals done with Macek.


Daily Herald (Chicago, IL) Nov. 5, 1977.

RM confessed to to the murders of: Lossman, her daughter, Sally Kandel and Michelle Becker, 18, McHenry, found drowned in a nearby creek on 7/04/1975.

LE would not confirm or deny the confession in the Kandel and Becker case. But McHenry County Sheriff's Lt. George Hendle said, "We negotiated on the plea that Macek went down on and we're going to clear the case on Michelle Becker".


I don't think DuPage Co. has the money or time to persue this cold case. It has been forty six years since Debbie's murder. They collected DNA from Debbie's mother. I know it takes time but its been eight years since they collected it. My question is have they even begun to process it yet. And have they even done anything but read the case file yet?

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BBM. My mistake. I was thinking coroners inquest but typed grand jury. I can't pull up the PTV links, but seem to recall both of Debbie's parents attended the coroners inquest.

You have some excellent points, Abbey. Especially with regards to Milone. I guess sometimes I just want to scream so ALL of DuPage County can hear, how blatently DuPage botched the Kandel case, but that is not what this thread is about.


You and Shadow are both correct. A confirmation on what, if anything, has been done with the DNA collected from Debbie's family 8 years ago, is a reasonable one.

LE must have dna of somekind. Either that of the victims or that of the perps. Otherwise why collect from the family?

If Debbie's family is still reading here, I hope they will push LE with regards to possible DNA from the perpetrator. I've seen UID cases in which it took 5 years to generate a suitable DNA profile on cold case John and Jane Does. It would be nice for Debbie's family to know if dna was obtainable or not. Or if it is still in the process of having a viable strand compiled/read/ obtained (whatever the correct term is).


DNA technology is also a lot better today than it was 8 years ago when collected from Debbie's family.

Obviously this case needs some noise! Just because it is 46 yrs old and neither the prime suspect or victims family reside in Illinois, it is still an unsolved case which occured in DuPage. A case in which a child was murdered and needs to be solved.


My son is with his grandmother until the weekend while I quit smoking cold turkey. I may take a drive to the courthouse and see what kind of digging I can do.

I go back and forth on LS and RM. There is enough info out there on RM that he would certainly be a viable possibility and if this case were ever to to trial, the prosecutor should best be able to rule out this possibility. How hard is it for LE to run a check to see if RM was incarcerated or not on the day Debbie was murdered?


Then I think back to Debbie being one of the last to leave school that day and how easily hiding his *advertiser censored* addiction could easily be motive, if Debbie saw LM doing something or viewing something he should not have - in front of children.


I hope the only thing that is currently keeping this case from breaking wide open with an arrest, trial and conviction, is the amount of time it takes to generate a readable DNA strand on aging dna.

Cubby said:

BBM. My mistake. I was thinking coroners inquest but typed grand jury. I can't pull up the PTV links, but seem to recall both of Debbie's parents attended the coroners inquest.

You have some excellent points, Abbey. Especially with regards to Milone. I guess sometimes I just want to scream so ALL of DuPage County can hear, how blatently DuPage botched the Kandel case, but that is not what this thread is about.


You and Shadow are both correct. A confirmation on what, if anything, has been done with the DNA collected from Debbie's family 8 years ago, is a reasonable one.

LE must have dna of somekind. Either that of the victims or that of the perps. Otherwise why collect from the family?

If Debbie's family is still reading here, I hope they will push LE with regards to possible DNA from the perpetrator. I've seen UID cases in which it took 5 years to generate a suitable DNA profile on cold case John and Jane Does. It would be nice for Debbie's family to know if dna was obtainable or not. Or if it is still in the process of having a viable strand compiled/read/ obtained (whatever the correct term is).


DNA technology is also a lot better today than it was 8 years ago when collected from Debbie's family.

Obviously this case needs some noise! Just because it is 46 yrs old and neither the prime suspect or victims family reside in Illinois, it is still an unsolved case which occured in DuPage. A case in which a child was murdered and needs to be solved.


My son is with his grandmother until the weekend while I quit smoking cold turkey. I may take a drive to the courthouse and see what kind of digging I can do.

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Yes, I do believe both her parents were at the coroners inquest.

Congrats on quitting smoking. A drive to the courthouse is just the sort of distraction you need right now. Hey, maybe even go to the Harold Washington Library and look up newspaper articles...we could have missed some. Its really hard to quit smoking so, distractions like this will help keep your mind off smoking.

I saw your questions up thread Cubby. Here are two articles that might help answer some of your questions. Shadowangel found the first one.


Chicago Tribune Feb 16, 1966. "We've Got Our Man"

*Clothing turned over to PD by MaryAnn Schofield, stated to be those worn by Loren on the Friday Debbie was murdered, appeared to have stains on them which may have been blood

*Debbie had borrowed a stuffed and mounted duck from a neighbor for class, which was found next to her body

*The penknife which Schofield turned over was believed to have been too small to cause the wounds present on Debbie's body

*Schofield taught 6th and 7th grade classes as well as boy's physical education

*Maryann Schofield told police that Loren had her burn pornographic literature and photos he had brought home. He explained to his wife that he had found the material along the road and did not want kids finding it

*States atty Hopf released portions of an oral statement that Schofield had made which had been taken down by a court reporter but not signed as it had not been transcribed (I take this to mean the court reporter had taken the statement in shorthand and needed to transcribe it back into full text).

*Four months prior to the murder, the Schofields had moved into a home at 4N512 Gary St, Carol Stream, from the Schofield family home (the farm).

*Debbie's mother had gone to the school at 3pm to pick up the children of some friends, and Debbie was aware that she would return to pick up Debbie after the game

*The husband of a teacher reported that, at about 5:30, he had seen a man in a white car parked in St Charles Rd at Fairoaks Rd, and a girl was standing beside the car

*Anonymous calls were placed to sheriff's dep't stating that Schofield should be watched and that he "is your man". A deputy stated that he would not have been surprised that Schofield placed the calls himself

*Schofield gave differing accounts of his route home that night

*Schofield told law enforcement that he had talked to Debbie at the swingset around 5:20 at which time she said she was waiting for her mother. Muddy tracks were discovered leading from the swings into St Charles Rd

*Schofield told police that he took a circuitous route home because he "wanted to see how the roads are"

Background on Schofield:

*attended St Isildore's Elem School in Carol Stream and St Edwards High School in Elgin

*left the seminary to attend Quincy (IL) College, graduating in 1962-began teaching at Benjamin School in Sept 1964

*met his wife, MaryAnn Schlugen of Lisle, while in college-She taught at parochial schools in West Chicago and Carol Stream.



Daily Herald (Chicago) Feb. 17, 1966

A witness stated he had seen a girl he believed to be Debbie talking to a man in a white car matching the description of Schofield's car. Hopf reported that when Schofield was requested Monday to bring in the clothes he wore on Friday, he and his wife Mary Ann, were found to have switched the clothes.
During the first polygraph test that Schofield took he reacted strongly when confronted with a mounted duck that Debbie had taken to school on Friday for show and tell. This mounted duck was found along with her books near her body. Sheriff's detectives did go back to the school and found charred remains of a number of pictures of nude women in the school incinerator. Schofield explained his action by saying that he didn't want to become implicated in an investigation. Capt. Mertes and Sgt Rowe reasoned that his action took place some two hours in advance of the discovery of Debbie's body. Schofield did confess that he enjoyed looking at "girlie pictures" and he day-dreamed about his pupils. He told LE that, "I'm sick. I need help. I shouldn't be on the streets. I don't want to go home". Capt Mertes stated that it was very strange that Schofield remembered everything on Saturday and Sunday but on Monday couldn't remember anything that happened.

bumping for Debbie.

:bump:

Bumping for Debbie. As I read the updates in Maria Ridulph's murder trial, I can't help but wonder who besides me is watching this trial....
Is the person responsible for murdering Debbie watching this trial? Are the detectives who are handling Debbie's case watching? And most importantly, is Bob Berlin the DuPage County State's Attorney watching?

Because if DeKalb County can do it, there is no reason DuPage can not follow.

We have not forgotten Debbie, nor will we. We at WS are watching. DuPage County is watching.

Who is holding up an arrest and formal charges here? The SA? Birkett is gone, Berlin's time to act on getting some cold cases solved in DuPage.

We're watching. Justice for Debbie. Let's let the country know DuPage still cares even when the victims family is no longer in the area and the primary suspect is no longer in the area. It should not mean out of county, out of mind.

Justice for Debbie! :candle: :jail:

A guilty verdict over in DeKalb County.


Former neighbor guilty of killing girl, 7, in 1957

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...lling-girl-7-in-1957-20120914,0,2995426.story


Come On, DuPage - formal charges and the headline's about Debbie's case next!



All those perps in cold cases not yet charged, time to anic: Time does not mean one is scott free and they should be comfortable they got away with it. There is NO statute of limitations on murder. DeKalb reminded everyone of just that and put Northern IL back on the map with regards to cold cases. I want to see DuPage next! :rocker:


Justice for Debbie! :candle: :jail:

While I am ecstatic and bawled for Maria's family, oh how I can't help but wish that headline was for Debbie.

Berlin, get that file in your hand NOW and let's see about getting charges filed in this case!

Detectives working Debbie's case, please take what you got to Berlin and seek formal charges again, Debbie deserves justice and DeKalb just opened a huge door showing you it can happen this many years later!