IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #11

elmomom said:

I have reread everything posted since last night and don't understand why you feel that there is a suspicion of HT being expressed. Sure, I am mentioning her and her info quite a bit, speculating what other info she may or may not have, but it seems a bit dramatic to characterize my questions, as well as some others as casting any blame upon her. Why are you so defensive about her?

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I'm not referring in large part to your comments. More to those of others, including TG's and those to which he refers near the end of the last thread. I am defending HT, sure, but I'm not being defensive because I'm not being attacked. The reasons are stated above.

AnalyticalExaminer said:

My understanding is that your latter statement is correct. And that the basis of that belief relates to drug use.

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And I would love to know what/when JW, HT, AR et al knew to get their fears up so early the next day.

Please don't get this thread locked before PC, for specifically going after a certain post or poster... PC is in in an hour...

sv614...I wasn't able to quote your post from the previous thread, but you shares some interesting insight. When you say that the OD rumor was circulating, do you mean that it was circulating BEFORE JW made the missing person report? If that it the case, surely there was great cause for people to be discussing that. Many people have mentioned here, the lifestyle of college kids (partiers or not - even the non-party crowd often stays up til 3-4 AM) so honestly, I struggle with the thought of JW asking around, "Where is Lauren? I can't find her." , then someone starting a rumor before 3 PM, "Oh, I bet she ODd when she went over to JR's house." That's weird to me. It's just so hard for me to imagine that between the time he awoke (maybe noon?) and 4 PM, he thought she ws in danger and contacted the police. It would take a LOT more than 4 hours as a college student, for most people to believe their friend/gf/roommate was missing these days, especially one who was supposedly such a big partier. So, if you're saying that this rumor began BEFORE the 4 PM report - that makes me feel that it wasn't just speculation, but perhaps someone who knew the truth had actually given someone else reason to start this rumor - maybe things were said.

eqh said:

And at what time was this call to Lauren's phone that was answered at Kilroy's? If I'm trying to get ahold of someone and can't, then the phone is answered by someone who says he's found it, then my anxiety would be reduced.

My experience is likely true of any college student: If I were to fall asleep at 4:30 after being rather messed up, I'd be up at the crack of 1 pm, even if I stayed at a friend's. Then I'd head over to the Runcible Spoon or Yogi's for breakfast. My day wouldn't have started by 3 and it would be reasonable to not be home yet.

In the absence of any information, JW might think she hooked up with someone by 3:00 pm, not that she was missing. Doesn't mean that these folks would know about any abduction, but STRONGLY suggests they would think she was in a dangerous state the night before.

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Haha...runcible spoon, yogi's. I end my night at Lennie's.
To your very good points...
If the report was made at 3p -- the concern had to have been brewing at least an hour or two before you actually make the decision to physically go to the police department to fill out a report. I'm starting to think someone was pushing this to a criminal matter more quickly than others, not necessarily intentionally. Maybe because they're mind was working differently, knowing what they knew. And again, if you're a 20 something year old, not very street smart (sheltered, as a matter of fact) you may not realize you are tipping your hand as part of a criminal investigation.

AnalyticalExaminer said:

I'm not referring in large part to your comments. More to those of others, including TG's and those to which he refers near the end of the last thread. I am defending HT, sure, but I'm not being defensive because I'm not being attacked. The reasons are stated above.

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yes, defensive for her I should have said. Sounds like I, TG and maybe a couple of others are just going over her statements looking for clues. And it has been obvious from the get go that she has caused others on this MB to feel uncomfortable with her statements early on.

Since I am not at all like HT - there is no way my instinct would be to say ONE WORD to the press - it is very easy for me to assume that she only said what she wanted the press to know, not the same as what she actually did know, and not necessarily what she told LE. I have a hard time understanding the motivation to tell the whole truth and nothing but to the media. By anyone.

NEW NAMES: Anything on TV and AF? They go together.

TonyGatto said:

NEW NAMES: Anything on TV and AF? They go together.

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No...where did these come from? And can you say how they fit in here?

My reading of HT's interview is that she is torn between wanting to find (out what happened to) her friend and not wanting to believe that anyone she knows/is friends with has done something wrong, though she certainly seemed to acknowledge the possibility that they might have.

I grew at least somewhat suspicious of her stating that the search needed to go beyond Bloomington, but there's nothing necessarily inconsistent at all between that and the above attitudes.

Someone posted on the previous thread that perhaps JR was alone at approx. 1:30 a.m. and probably didn't feel like/was too tired to party a few hours later. Excuse my bluntness but this is naive thinking.

Who else was at 5 North (besides all the usual suspects that we've been talking about)? Who?

I think IT IS NO ACCIDENT there are no security cameras at 5 North.

I'm back to my first post here on WS--Drugs, sex, a vulnerable and most likely out of it petite young woman.

From the time she was last seen on videotape and when she was reported missing, not to mention the time it took the police to show up at 5 North, is PLENTY OF TIME to get rid of a little body. Doesn't take a rocket scientist. Throw her in a car in the dark of morning and head OUT OF TOWN.

I'm am haunted by the words "It's Lauren, she's missing" which Mrs. S says were the first words spoken from Mr. S when he reached her at her relatives.

What did JW tell Mr. S when he called to tell him Lauren was missing?

Blythe said:

I'm am haunted by the words "It's Lauren, she's missing" which Mrs. S says were the first words spoken from Mr. S when he reached her at her relatives.

What did JW tell Mr. S when he called to tell him Lauren was missing?

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yes would like to know. as well as read the missing person report.
is there any way to know whether she was listed as missing and endangered?

TonyGatto said:

Haha...runcible spoon, yogi's. I end my night at Lennie's.
To your very good points...
If the report was made at 3p -- the concern had to have been brewing at least an hour or two before you actually make the decision to physically go to the police department to fill out a report. I'm starting to think someone was pushing this to a criminal matter more quickly than others, not necessarily intentionally. Maybe because they're mind was working differently, knowing what they knew. And again, if you're a 20 something year old, not very street smart (sheltered, as a matter of fact) you may not realize you are tipping your hand as part of a criminal investigation.

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The obvious question is whether the friends of JW attacked CR the night before because they thought she was in some sort of danger. Was the reason they fought with CR because they were concerned about drug use or something like that that could put LS at risk? or was it simply because they did not like the idea that she was alone with someone else and not her b/f. Hard to believe that they had the fight just for that. A more likely scenario is that they fought and tried to keep her because she might have been intoxicated and they were concerned about her well-being. JMO. If that was the reason for the fight, it would only make sense that her boyfriend and/or roommate would notify her parents and make a police report as early as 3 pm.

JeannaT said:

I'm going to step out here and say something about the type of friendships these are. These kids are cohorts in crime. Literally. They spend their time flying beneath the radar trying to illegally buy alcohol and drugs, or buy it legally and give it or sell it to those who can't. And then they drink together and prowl the streets and bars until the wee hours. That's what they do.

When you've got a group like this, they're not really friends. They're accomplices. Now that one of them has caused the bright glaring light of the public on their behaviors, they're a bit scared and a bit irritated. As well, I'm sure they do have some affection for her and some strong sense of loss. But they're also covering their criminal behavior and hoping not to get charged for it.

Except some, like JW and Mike B who weren't in on this whole thing.

I contrast their social network with strongly religious youth I know - who spend their time bowling until the late night, sitting on the beach in front of a campfire, having game nights with Trivial Pursuit and Charades, all stone cold sober. If one of their crowd went missing walking home from these events, they'd rally and hold vigils and do what they can - anything - to help out. Because that's what they're made of, that's what their friendships are forged with. Love, affection, connectedness beyond using one another for mutual criminal and drugging/boozing activities.

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I respectfully disagree. I have partied hard with my best friends, the same friends that I have had for 10+ years for whom I would literally take a bullet.

Please don't take this offensively but I think you are a little naive to assume that just because people like to go out and party means that they are not "real friends" or that they are "cohorts in a crime". Come on. They are college kids.

Now, I would like to think *my* group of friends might be acting differently than this group in a situation where one of us was in potentially great danger or worse.

But, in my opinion, it is unfair to paint a picture of them as criminals who "prowl the streets".

TonyGatto said:

NEW NAMES: Anything on TV and AF? They go together.

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Did you try looking at FB pages where we can at least see the user's friends and see if any of the initials match? Same for twitter, though the names there are not always the person's name.

Someone mentioned something earlier about a rumor of a possible informant. That could be a HUGE thing....

I live near a very big (well known) party university. Please let me share this story to understand my point. I can tell you what has happened to some kids in this area....It appears to me that rather than trying to go after the BIG drug crowd (b/c they can't seem to find them), LE goes after every little peon. This seems to be an attempt at scaring new people from joining the "scene" and therefore, the idea must be that if there's no new interest, the drug crowd will die out....simply but sadly, isn't going to happen. With the case I know about, a boy's rooommate was selling. This boy (an acquaintance's son - we'll call him Tom) occasionally smoked (more like rarely). I think his roommate was found on Craigslist and he didn't know him well. A boy came to their door, wanting to buy weed from the roommate and Tom said that the roommate wasn't there. He asked if he could use Tom's phone to call the roommate. The kid talked to the roomate, then handed the phone to Tom, who was basically told, "just go ahead and put his money on my bed. The weed is in my top drawer." so Tom did. The kid was an informant and the next day, Tom was arrested. Tom was given the choice to have a felony record (they lived close to a school) or become an informant. He chose the latter but from what I understand, there was pressure on him to turn in a "quota". These kids seem to initially start finding the kids who they've heard rumors about, but eventually they have to start turning in their friends. I've heard they carry on, acting like they're still partiers (and many are, so they enjoy having a sort of immunity) so that their friends don't know. So......

My curiosity leads me to wonder about this group. If the "informant" rumor is true, what if LS was one? Weren't one or more of these boys already arrested in a drug charge recently? What if that happened b/c of a tip from LS? What if the "big" drug crowd got wind of that and somehow knew that LS was the informant? Maybe JW knew she was one and maybe that's why he was scared for her. If there is an informant connection here, this could add to the reasoning why no one is talking.

British said:

The obvious question is whether the friends of JW attacked CR the night before because they thought she was in some sort of danger. Was the reason they fought with CR because they were concerned about drug use or something like that that could put LS at risk? or was it simply because they did not like the idea that she was alone with someone else and not her b/f. Hard to believe that they had the fight just for that. A more likely scenario is that they fought and tried to keep her because she might have been intoxicated and they were concerned about her well-being. JMO. If that was the reason for the fight, it would only make sense that her boyfriend and/or roommate would notify her parents and make a police report as early as 3 pm.

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It has always sounded to me that CR was as wasted as LS if not more. I can see a fight breaking out if she was noticeably impaired and he was not, but that hasn't been my impression. I still don't get the whole fight thing. Obviously everyone involved were pretty irrational that night... including the "friends of JW" that punched CR.
Hard to understand what and when JW heard about the fight anyhow, and WHERE was HT then, is it not on the floor that she and LS live on?

British said:

The obvious question is whether the friends of JW attacked CR the night before because they thought she was in some sort of danger. Was the reason they fought with CR because they were concerned about drug use or something like that that could put LS at risk? or was it simply because they did not like the idea that she was alone with someone else and not her b/f. Hard to believe that they had the fight just for that. A more likely scenario is that they fought and tried to keep her because she might have been intoxicated and they were concerned about her well-being. JMO. If that was the reason for the fight, it would only make sense that her boyfriend and/or roommate would notify her parents and make a police report as early as 3 pm.

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My impression - they were concerned about her because she was in a highly intoxicated state, and the guy's intentions didn't seem to be that great. I don't know whether the concern for her well-being was more about what he might do (ie sexually?) or what she might do (ie drug use?), but I would tend to doubt anyone thought, "If we let her go, she's going to die."

AnalyticalExaminer said:

While I'll leave without comment your moralizing regarding those who drink before they are of age (or at all?) or engage in drug use vs. those who are "strongly religious," I feel compelled to note that you have deemed the former group, which comprises probably 50% or more of American college students, as well as the last three Presidents of the United States, just for example, to have no affection/love for those around them. That doesn't seem to be an especially useful way to evaluate the facts here. You might as well assume that all of the POIs killed LS in a "satanic" ritual.

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Are we talking about the US presidents here OR a group of people involved in alleged cocaine use, pill popping, and drinking in excess, who have mysteriously clammed up, lawyered up, and for some odd reason, are not helping to find their "friend" according to LS' parents? We're not talking about all college students...we are talking about LS' group of college friends. And based on their behavior and lack of information coming from that group, I think we're all free to speculate on their reasons. I agree with JeannaT, and IMO this group of college students are co-conspirators IF they are withholding vital information that could lead to finding Lauren or finding out what happened to her.

None of that group (people LS was hanging with) have drug charges as far as I know. I believe there are lot of public intoxication charges among the group, LS herself included. So I think the possibility of LS being an "informer" is rather far fetched.