Emergency custody papers filed by mother of JI's son 11/14/11

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So is it fact that emergency custody papers were filed or not?
 
Sparklin said:
If Deb had put the children to bed and gone to bed at the same time, she wouldn't have been able to check on them in her sleep.
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If she HAD put these children to bed at 6:30 and gone to sleep, that would be a long time to leave them unattended to, but at least she would know where they were when she left them. But my understanding is she never "put them to bed" at all, they simply fended for themselves on this school night, and the baby was sick. I personally cannot imagine not checking on a sick baby for that length of time. I would do it even if i were drunk. But then, I care. Even when drunk.
 
cityslick said:
Because you (and anyone else) have no idea what the living conditions would be with the bio mom. All we know now is he has custody and there have been no complaints about the child's welfare previously. You're right, it's not the best situation for the boy, but you would be taking him out of that into an unknown situation, which could be worse.
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BBM. We don't know if there have been complaints or not. That is confidential information.

I don't believe it is fair to imply the boy's mother's environment could be worse when the boy right now is bunking with relatives and his sister is missing.

JMO
 
Sparklin said:
Why would Jeremy have to deal with a drunk wife or 3 children? They were sleeping. The most he would have had to do is change Lisa and give her a bottle and a cuddle.
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Soooo.....he comes in about 4:00 am from work, a diaper, bottle, and rock back to sleep would be about an hour, then what time did you say he had to be back at work????
 
Kat said:
Good post TWSUF.

This is going to get interesting. In other cases where we've had this occur or where there were civil matters that needed to be addressed in court while a criminal investigation was going on---those cases got very interesting as far as who went to court, what was asked in court, how it was asked...all that kind of stuff.

(I said criminal because anyway you look at it its' a criminal investigation kidnapping/filicide/accidental death with improper disposal of human remains---etc.).

I have no clue who this child belongs with but I trust that a Judge is the best person to look at the big picture and do what is best for this young boy.
JMHO
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Exactly.
 
gliving said:
In the 2005 paternity case, Ms Raim has a different address than the Irwin home, and used the same address for her 2008 case. I think one has to use their legal address?
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Do we know if she was living with JI when she got pregnant? Maybe she moved in with him when they found out about the pregnancy. Who knows?
 
OneLove said:
I feel sure that, if CPS and family court decide the best environment for the child is with the mom that his father will be granted visitation.

I'm sure, since he is such a good father, that he will be certain to utilize every visitation he is awarded.

So there should be no "ripping away" involved.

I don't know why the mom has not exercised her visitation, but I do know for sure why SOME parents don't because I worked in social services once upon a time. Some people are threatened, I know of an attempt on one persons life, and I know of apparent hiring a hit on the other parent. I'm not saying this mother was threatened, but we really don't know the details. Sometimes one parent exerts extreme alienation of affection and it disturbs the child so much the other parent backs off for the child's sanity. there are many reasons. Then again, it could be she had addiction problems back then. No one knows.

For sure, WHATEVER happened in the past should not prevent a good reassessment of what is in this child's best interests NOW. Any argument against that, IMO, is merely a flashing neon sign of each individual's personal projection based on their OWN life experience. It has no bearing here.
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BBM 1: From media reports, it appears that DB & JI have been with family members most of the time since the night that Lisa disappeared, and it does NOT appear that Jeremy is leaving his son alone with DB. On what grounds then would you justify removing the child from his custody?

BBM 2: Please, if you are going to use quotes when responding to a post of mine, use the words I actually said. I did not say ripping away. Thank you.

BBM 3: No, we don't. Nor do we really know the details of what the child's every day life has been like, or really much at all except the events of one horrible night in his life. Thank goodness it is not up to us to decide what is in his best interests.

BB4: I could not agree more.
 
Alrighty. It is clear this thread needs a cooling down period.

I will be right back with some reading material. Then we can re-open it.
 
Here ya go!

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4472622#post4472622"]Dealing With Your Fellow Posters[/ame]


[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90578"]Your Ignore List and You.[/ame]


Please read the above links then "Thank" this post so I will know those posting on this thread have read the above.
 
Okay, let's try this again.

Parental custody is a "hot" topic that ellicits very strong feelings. PLEASE realize that everyone is NOT going to agree on whether relinquishing custody by choice or losing custody (whichever may be the case) determines the worth of a parent. Some people stand firm in their beliefs and will never understand how any mother could voluntarily give custody to the father. Or, if she lost custody per Court order for whatever reason, will deem her a loser forever.

On the other side of the coin, others are more open-minded about this issue and willing to give this same mother the benefit of the doubt, deserving or not.

The bottom line, even if you disagree vehemently, you are expected to express yourself with respect to your fellow posters, no matter how strong you feel about the subject.

If you find yourself getting heated, either step away from this thread and/or the keyboard OR USE THE IGNORE FEATURE. You will still be able to view quoted posts but at least you can keep yourself out of trouble by not quoting the offending post and responding when you are upset by someone else.
 
My issue with the whole getting drunk thing isn't that DB did it more than once or anything... it was the fact she was cocky and adamant that she did nothing wrong.

I understand all parents make mistakes, but she showed absolutely no remorse for being "black out drunk" the night her daughter disappeared.

Maybe it's her way of dealing with guilt, I don't know. But, I know if I made that kind of mistake, the last thing I would do is defend it all over national TV.

JMO though.
 
Hate to bring over the Horman case, but isn't it the same kind of issue?

Kaine recieved custody of Kiara because of a MFH (that lead to no arrest)& because he think she is invovled with Kyron missing.

This mother can approach the courts, and say she is concerned for her child due to the actions and/or lack of action Irwin & Bradley in baby Lisas case.
 
Ronso said:
My issue with the whole getting drunk thing isn't that DB did it more than once or anything... it was the fact she was cocky and adamant that she did nothing wrong.

I understand all parents make mistakes, but she showed absolutely no remorse for being "black out drunk" the night her daughter disappeared.

Maybe it's her way of dealing with guilt, I don't know. But, I know if I made that kind of mistake, the last thing I would do is defend it all over national TV.

JMO though.
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I have a feeling that the segment was edited for entertainment purposes IMO. I know what she said but if you watch it there appears to be something missing within the context.
 
To those who posted about ---
---“step” brother labels as not necessary, a stigma, notmean what it did 20 years ago, etc. and
--“Why does that matter (re DB and JI not being married.)
……………………………….....................................................................................................................
Respectfully:
We can discuss a “certain social climate” of the past (whether we think it was good, bad, or indifferent). We comport w social standards we choose to. We can date, play house, ignore nuclear and/or extended family structure, call our household members by relationship terms of our choice, but.…

In larger context (missing baby) & specific context (today’s custody filing), consider, "stigma" or not, the legal side.

From wiki entry on Stepfamily “Legal status”
“Although, historically, stepfamilies are built through the institution of marriage, and are legally recognized,
it is currently unclear if a stepfamily can be both established and recognized by less formal arrangements,
such as when a man or woman with children cohabits with another man or woman outside of marriage. …
The stepparent is a "legal stranger" in most of the U.S. and has no legal right to the minor child no matter how involved in the child's life they are. The biological parents (and, where applicable, adoptive parents) hold that privilege and responsibility. So if the biological parent doesn't give up his or her parental rights and custody of the child, the other parent's subsequent marriage cannot create a parental relationship without the biological parent's written consent …“ (BBM)
.

..................................................................... Legally
(and in traditional, perhaps outdated to some, social sense)
Jeremy is not stepfather to 5-6 year old, and Debbie is not stepmother to 8 year old,
as Debbie is still married to father of 5-6 year old.
The boys are not step brothers to each other. Both boys are half brothers to Baby Lisa.
.

.......................................................................PLS, LEGAL BEAGLES, COMMENT,
AS NOT-EVEN-STEP-MOTHER, WOULD/DOES DB'S PRESENCE IN THE HOUSEHOLD "CARRY ANY WEIGHT" RE CUSTODY ISSUE?
AS A PLUS OR MINUS, IN THIS CASE?
.

With the 8 year old boy’s mother bringing suit to gain custody, what Mo. law does judge consider?

Standards for determining custody between parents are different from CPS/DFS guidelines for removing children from the home,
which turn on abuse and/or neglect.

Per Mo. law Section 452.375, judge determines custody is based upon the “best interests of the child,”
then lists factors to consider including
“3) The interaction and interrelationship of the child with parents, siblings, and
any other person who may significantly affect the child's best interests.”
(cd. include DB, and 5-6 y/o, & Lisa, in father's home)

I don’t profess to know any facts about the 8 year old’s mother,
who could be Missouri’s Mother of the Year ----or--- the antithesis.

I believe these are a few facts about father JI:
-- On a daily basis, he leaves 8 year old at home in care of a caregiver who stated on camera for nat'l TV,
that 2-3 times a week, she has 5-10 glasses of wine as her “grown up time, and
“there's nothing wrong doing what I want to do after dark."
-- He has multiple cell phones restricted or redlined for failure to pay bills.
-- He is father to Baby Lisa by a woman who is still married to another man, ~ year after her birth.
-- He has shared for ~1-2 years and cont‘s. to share his house with this woman.
Did JI’s decision to father another child/Baby Lisa shortchange his monetary resources
for the son in his custody?

As numerous others said above, I don’t know whether the judge should award custody to mom or dad.

With the mother bringing suit, I hope both parents’ claims are fully presented by competent counsel
and thoughtfully considered by a fair judge --- which I think what all of us hope for.
 
Possibly if DB was the only parent here, the other children might be temporarily removed, but since the father is there and presumably was not negligent himself, that may be part of why the children are deemed safe at home.
 
The judge might consider the marital status in each home also. If the mom has been married in an emotionally AND financially stable relationship, that would be a plus.
 
menmo said:
Thank you. Wondering why and if this is normal with casenet? I didn't know they ever deleted anything except addresses when attorney's requested it.
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"Paternity" cases are normally sealed, just the involved parties and their attorney's can see the case file. The bio-mom and JI were not married, which could be the reason, you can't view it online anymore.

Maybe LE found something out in their interview with the eldest son. LE/FBI may have said it's in the son's best interest not to be with JI and DB. Who knows? We don't and shouldn't assume. Praying the judge and both parents make the decision that is best for their son. I don't think, for one minute, DB should be in the care and control of any child. :twocents:
 
The court will have access to more information. For all we know RR's history is WORSE than getting drunk with kids in the house. OR, it's not and she was steam rolled. Obviously if she was steam rolled, the courts will now favor her as a more stable home environment. If she is literally worse off in history than alcohol, then most likely the courts will still favor Jeremy.

There is also a chance JI will move out to his own place so as to distance himself and keep custody. I'd do it in a heartbeat to keep my kids. I do love my spouse, but were we in this situation I'd reckon him a big big boy who can deal with the consequences of poor choices.

IMO, getting entangled in a debate over this would be fruitless because we have 90% less information than we need to make an informed decision.
 
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