GUILTY UK - Six Philpott children, ages 5-13, die in Derby arson fire, 11 May 2012

Sad to say but after the Joanne Yeates case and another case where a nurse was arrested then released, I don't have much faith in the English police.

That's harsh. They found Joanna's killer and he was convicted of murder after admitting that he killed her. Yes, they arrested another person first but they had good reason to do so. It's quite normal to arrest suspects and later release them with no charge, it is just part of the investigation. Re the nurse, it was proved that she had stolen drugs from the hospital so it was hardly surprising that she would be a suspect.
 
That's harsh. They found Joanna's killer and he was convicted of murder after admitting that he killed her. Yes, they arrested another person first but they had good reason to do so. It's quite normal to arrest suspects and later release them with no charge, it is just part of the investigation. Re the nurse, it was proved that she had stolen drugs from the hospital so it was hardly surprising that she would be a suspect.


I agree it's not the cops that're the problem here, it's the courts....did you see that crapola yesterday, when the racist on the train got 5 month but the neglectful mother was set free on a 2 year suspended sentence whose baby drank fertilizer for marijuana plants & died in agony?

that's what I dont like.
 
Cherwell, it's certainly good to see you back at WS, albeit on a very sad thread.
 
The parents of six children who died in a house fire in Derby have been charged with their murders

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-18261680

Also from Derbyshire Police Website

Assistant Chief Constable Steve Cotterill said: “Following the appeal yesterday a number of people have come forward with more information but I want to stress that the two charges this evening should not be seen as the end of the investigation.

“We are determined to get to the truth of what happened and still want people to speak to us to tell us what they know about this tragedy.”
 
It's my understanding that a custody hearing related to the ex mistress's children had been due to take place the day after the fire and that threats had been made to the Philpotts by her and her new boyfriend. So possibly, the fire was set to try and set the blame on the ex and thus win custody of her kids? In which case, why on earth do it when the children were asleep in the house? Unless the parents assumed they would be able to get everyone out in time and didn't figure on how quickly petrol fires take hold?

They can't have done it simply to get a bigger council house, as in reality, they would simply have been housed in a bed and breakfast whilst their existing house was repaired after the fire.

Some neighbours reported that the parents were not in the house that night and had been out. Maybe a stupid decision made whilst inebriated?

Also, police removed the caravan from in front of the house earlier this week. I wonder if valuables and other possessions they wanted to keep had been moved into the caravan before setting the fire?

Whatever the outcome, it's going to make the funeral arrangements difficult . A lot of local people want to pay their respects and the parents are presumed innocent until proven guilty so cannot be denied the right to arrange and attend the funerals, but there will be a lot of bad feeling against them.
 
That's harsh. They found Joanna's killer and he was convicted of murder after admitting that he killed her. Yes, they arrested another person first but they had good reason to do so. It's quite normal to arrest suspects and later release them with no charge, it is just part of the investigation. Re the nurse, it was proved that she had stolen drugs from the hospital so it was hardly surprising that she would be a suspect.



But there is a big difference from stealing drugs for your own use and killing patients for the sheer he!! of it
 
It's my understanding that a custody hearing related to the ex mistress's children had been due to take place the day after the fire and that threats had been made to the Philpotts by her and her new boyfriend.

The relationships all seem a bit complicated. The ex-mistress (LW) moved out of the home in February (or possibly later according to the Daily Mail). Initially, she and her children went to stay with her sister (AC) and brother-in-law (IC). The wife's facebook page suggests that the threats came from AC and IC. Most media reports refer to IC as LW's brother in law but there is some suggestion that AC and IC have recently split up and some media reports refer to IC as LW's boyfriend.

So possibly, the fire was set to try and set the blame on the ex and thus win custody of her kids? In which case, why on earth do it when the children were asleep in the house? Unless the parents assumed they would be able to get everyone out in time and didn't figure on how quickly petrol fires take hold?

They can't have done it simply to get a bigger council house, as in reality, they would simply have been housed in a bed and breakfast whilst their existing house was repaired after the fire.

It is a bit of a coincidence that the fire started in the early hours of the morning on which the custody case was due to be heard. But as you say, why do it when the children were in the house? Also, since LW and her children had moved out, surely space was no longer such a big problem.

Some neighbours reported that the parents were not in the house that night and had been out. Maybe a stupid decision made whilst inebriated?

Reporting on this seems quite varied. It seems that it was usual for the parents to sleep in the caravan. Some reports say that it was only the mother asleep in the caravan and the father was out, others say both were in the caravan and others that they were downstairs in the house.

Also, police removed the caravan from in front of the house earlier this week. I wonder if valuables and other possessions they wanted to keep had been moved into the caravan before setting the fire?

Possibly. It seems probable that they found some sort of forensic evidence which led to, or strangthened the reason for, the arrest.

Whatever the outcome, it's going to make the funeral arrangements difficult . A lot of local people want to pay their respects and the parents are presumed innocent until proven guilty so cannot be denied the right to arrange and attend the funerals, but there will be a lot of bad feeling against them.

Some people were removed from court this morning for shouting abuse. There was no application for bail either, one paper saying that was for their own protection.

A very sad and tragic case
 
But there is a big difference from stealing drugs for your own use and killing patients for the sheer he!! of it

That does not rule out someone doing both, though. But let's not go off on a tangent - I was only responding to an earlier post which struck me as somewhat unfair.
 
just seen this on news at 10 here.

absolutely disgusting,actually made me feel physically sick.

those poor children,i just cannot fathom how anyone could possibly do this to their own flesh and blood.
 
That is really disturbing the parents did it.

Sorry to be a bore, but we don't know that yet - they've only been charged, not tried.

I can't help hoping that there's been a terrible mistake. But I really don't know.
 
Petrol branding, interesting read.
Maybe the Police used this technique to match the petrol in the vehicle and that emptied through the letter box.

http://www.m-scan.co.uk/chemical-environmental-and-forensic/forensic-services/petrol-branding/

Case Study
Late one night, a liquid was poured through the letterbox of a house and set alight. Luckily the occupants of the house were all rescued by the Fire Brigade (although they did suffer some smoke inhalation), and the house was severely fire damaged. Later the same day, Police Scenes of Crime Officers attended the property and recovered a sample of fire debris from inside the front door. A suspect was quickly identified by the police, and a petrol can containing liquid was found in his possession.

SGS M-Scan analysed the fire debris and established that the accelerant used was petrol. Further analysis of the debris identified the presence of petrol additive package found in petrol sold from certain supermarkets throughout the country.

The liquid from the suspect’s petrol can was analysed and found to be petrol containing the same additive package as was detected in the debris from the house.

Police seized the CCTV footage from all of the relevant local supermarket petrol stations and were able to identify the suspect buying petrol approximately 20 minutes prior to the fire.
 
Sorry to be a bore, but we don't know that yet - they've only been charged, not tried.

I can't help hoping that there's been a terrible mistake. But I really don't know.

There certainly has been a terrible mistake, but I think we'll find that it was the parents who made it. I do not for one moment think that they intended any harm to the children.

I expect them to plead not guilty to murder but guilty to manslaughter. There may yet be someone else involved - comments from the police suggest this is a possibility.
 
I agree with you Cherwell. I too think there has been a terrible mistake of some kind and it is the parents who have made it. It would not be too difficult to underestimate how quickly people, especially children, can die from smoke inhalation. I suspect it may have something to do with the custody battle. MP on Facebook was very keen on making public the death threats from the ex-mistress's sister. Mmmmm! Only speculating though folks! The parents may yet be proved innocent. However, I am at this time speculating manslaughter. Totally tragic.
 
MP on Facebook was very keen on making public the death threats from the ex-mistress's sister.

Yes, I noticed that. It has all been made "private" now so is not open to casual view.

I wonder if there really were any 'death threats', or any impartial witnesses to any such threats? Or was it just the normal "I'll bloody kill you, you ******* " style of thing that is often said when tempers are flaring?
 
I found this and thought it interesting

http://blog.eyesforlies.com/2012/06/mick-philpott.html

'' I finally came to the conclusion that thick British accent of Mick is hard for me to understand, and hence it is requiring a lot of cognitive load to simply understand Mick that I did see the other clues, which in hindsight are very noteworthy.''

I live quite close to Derby and I struggle sometimes with the dialect, a few miles makes so much difference.

Edited to add this [video=youtube;toiFtvi3gAE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toiFtvi3gAE[/video]
 
Just a little bump. Those children...they did not look like well cared for children. (imo)
I have no idea if the parents did this, or the ex, or someone one of the above mentioned parties paid. But what a tragedy, any way it happened.
 

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