Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #5

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Well, I said I wouldn't :fence: but, having read the entire thread from the start, finally have taken the leap. Great to see so many concerned with justice for Allison and the welfare of her children. As someone who grew up in the area and being same age (but no longer resident of Qld), Allison's murder has hit home very hard.

Now, many threads ago there was discussion as to how closely affiliated the family really are with scouting. Available through Google+ (on public view) is the following interesting account and pictures.

https://plus.google.com/photos/118154241701375304057/albums/5140572594640237393

Note the era appropriate (!) pic of Nigel, gun and children... further on you'll see lots of the family, including GBC and siblings. Interesting to see both younger siblings obviously in military garb; GBC has an earlier what looks like army or army cadets photo but that's it. Lots of copies of diaries and pics of Baden-Powell - keeping up the family ties methinks.



Further to the boat theory mentioned earlier: That particular creek opens up to the Brisbane River about another 50m maximum to the right of where Allison was found. The Mt Crosby Road runs up and along the top of some fairly high hills and there is no boat ramp/access in the immediate area unless you cross into Karana Downs and launch from the other side. Having spent a childhood going up and down this road on the school bus, I've had lots of experience with the hills! You can, however, see cars coming for some distance due to the angling of lights at night...

Further to the business partner theory: Weren't both of his parents also involved in the business? They both left at the same time... is it too far fetched to consider that the female business partner could also be his mother? Food for thought and let's be honest; who is the person who enables their little Emperors in the family first? Mum. The proximity in location to his parents, the quite strange snogging display initiated by his mother... protect and enable the golden child at all costs?

Cheers!

And if you go further on that page one of his friends is Nigelaine Baden Clay who was talked about earlier
 
I think what Brissiechickinthe USA is saying makes a lot of senser out of the way.e. I think Allison would have been seen as a source of income and an inconvenience, both problems could be solved by having her out of the way. No matter what the government says, times are tough in Australia, money is tight and it is tight for people who have never had that worry before. I think the $300000 loan was not actual money but share of the business that was not paid out when the partners left. The female partner must now need the money, pressure on GBC daily to do something about it. It is a lot of money, particularly if a loan originally to get the money. Promises will have been made, he is a very flowery character and my experience of most real estate agents is they will say anything to get what they want (usually a sale).

So the pressure is on, Allison makes a move away from the Real Estate business thus increasing the costs to GBC (having to employ another property manager, and those jobs are usual a waged position, rather than commissions). Joining Pathways (which incidental to those in Brisbane, is owned by the women who was in that farcical dog court case about 9 months, pinched the neighbours dog because she thought it wasn't being looked after well enough) to have some independence and perhaps the first step to leaving him. When Allison left GBC the beneficeries of the life insurance would change, so they had to act quickly. The kids were away for the night, perhaps that was arranged by Gerald and it was a great opportunity to do the deed.

It's a convincing motive. I just can't bear to think that it was premeditated. For his poor kids to have to live with that would be horrific.
 
This is getting confusing.

So there is:

1. A woman that has been interviewed by police several times, once for 4 hours, who is an ex-employee of C21 (un-named by the media)
2. A woman who is an ex-business partner of GBC (named on the previous page).
3. A mistress (rumoured)

Barossa, are you saying you think these three are all different women?

IMO 1 and 3 are the same
 
That's actually how I found the google + account - googled their name out of interest. :)

And if you go further on that page one of his friends is Nigelaine Baden Clay who was talked about earlier
 
I'm thinking the word 'she' is at the end of whatever was written. eg. "turn u on does she"

Perhaps the gurney message was written by ABC before a fatal fight errupted (without the kids home, he would be more inclined to let it get out of control).

The Dickie's went to clean up the house before the girls came home - and maybe this message on the path was the first thing to fix.

I don't think the works "she" has anything to do with this. The media would have picked up on it, if it is in the driveway of their house.
 
I think what Brissiechickinthe USA is saying makes a lot of senser out of the way.e. I think Allison would have been seen as a source of income and an inconvenience, both problems could be solved by having her out of the way. No matter what the government says, times are tough in Australia, money is tight and it is tight for people who have never had that worry before. I think the $300000 loan was not actual money but share of the business that was not paid out when the partners left. The female partner must now need the money, pressure on GBC daily to do something about it. It is a lot of money, particularly if a loan originally to get the money. Promises will have been made, he is a very flowery character and my experience of most real estate agents is they will say anything to get what they want (usually a sale).

So the pressure is on, Allison makes a move away from the Real Estate business thus increasing the costs to GBC (having to employ another property manager, and those jobs are usual a waged position, rather than commissions). Joining Pathways (which incidental to those in Brisbane, is owned by the women who was in that farcical dog court case about 9 months, pinched the neighbours dog because she thought it wasn't being looked after well enough) to have some independence and perhaps the first step to leaving him. When Allison left GBC the beneficeries of the life insurance would change, so they had to act quickly. The kids were away for the night, perhaps that was arranged by Gerald and it was a great opportunity to do the deed.

I pray this was not pre meditated
 
I don't think the works "she" has anything to do with this. The media would have picked up on it, if it is in the driveway of their house.

Perhaps but the media have been working with the police form the get go IMO
 
Just as an aside are there now two appeals running for the girls, one for their education as mentioned in the Courier Mail on Saturday and now one as mentioned in the same paper today for "Counseling and ongoing support"?
 
IMO 1 and 3 are the same

And just to qualify, there was also:

4. A woman who was an ex-employee of C21 and now works at remax and was wrongly named as the alleged mistress.

She is not any of the first three women either?
 
To me it does not look like paint, but marks from a pressure washer, perhaps just the kids playing with it.

When vehicles are parked in the open in bushy areas, it is amazing how the birds like to plop their 'little parcels' onto them. Although it does look like a particularly large one.
 
Just as an aside are there now two appeals running for the girls, one for their education as mentioned in the Courier Mail on Saturday and now one as mentioned in the same paper today for "Counseling and ongoing support"?

I think it's just one, for education, support, counselling, etc.
 
I don't think the works "she" has anything to do with this. The media would have picked up on it, if it is in the driveway of their house.

I recall an aerial view of the house in the media reports. Anyone got that link handy by chance? if you do a google-image search for baden-clay car, you'll see a pic of the driveway (bitumen) and another pic of the Prado on the driveway (bitumen) with the 'SHE' pathway -- so i think the prado pic was taken at the house.
 
Can't help but wonder if the $300,000 (loaned just days before Christmas) went out in one further transaction; or whether it dribbled out.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...usiness-suffered/story-e6freoof-1226344121450

Days before Christmas, Mr Baden-Clay took out a $300,000 loan for one of his companies from two partners who exited the business the same day.

A former colleague said the venture "should have worked and it could have worked, but it didn't''.

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-business-venture.htm

"A business venture is a start-up enterprise that is formed with the expectation and plan that a financial gain will result. Many refer to a business venture as a small business, since it normally starts out with an idea that begins with a small amount of capital or finances. Most business ventures are backed by one or more investors with the hope that the business will be profitable."

IMO, I don't think the $300,000 was for the Century 21 business but a new business venture???
 
Hmmmm.

Re above comment "The business partner now works for a competing real estate agency."

Interesting to note??? The dates may be wrong though.....


Here is a short snippet of what I was just reading. Link to full article below.

"In reality, however, such pressure has the opposite effect on some agents, reducing them to tactics and behaviour that compromise not only their own integrity but the integrity of the industry as a whole. If their behaviour didn’t affect me and the community in which I live and work, then I would have nothing to say about this. But it does directly affect me and it directly affects you. No names or pack drills here – I seek not to expose the offender but the practice, the practice being to erect For Sale signs on properties prior to any contract being signed. It is first and foremost illegal. It is secondly unethical. And it is finally reprehensible." Article continues......


http://liveweb.archive.org/http://expertrealestate.blogspot.com/2008/02/its-just-not-cricket.html

But worst of all.....lol....It runs the risk of the home owner selling the house, and not giving the Real Estate Agent ONE PENNY in commissions......Im sure that was hat was most reprehensible to GBC.
 
Wow! I wonder if what the police saw was in fact graffitti paint with the words
" Shes D**d" I know its crazy but something the police saw to set up a crime scene!! IMO

If anything (graffiti or pressure spray or whatever) said 'she's dead' there's no way it would be left unprotected and ready to be walked on or interfered with by anyone on a crime scene - it would have been cordoned off, tagged, and photographed/examined. It's tempting to make Allison's murder more complicated than it actually is, in the absence of any announcement by police. However - IMO - the police aren't currently trying to dredge up complex theories about the connection of other people (unlike a lot of people on here, with respect). I truly believe, based on physical evidence and their own observations, they have narrowed the suspects down to one or two people and are simply gathering and documenting enough evidence to allow a murder charge to succeed (as per Hawkins explanation of manslaughter / murder investigations).

If lack of an arrest and guilty verdict is stressing, the stress is probably only going to get worse for a while yet. They aren't going to let the person responsible get away with this but that takes time to prepare. There's also going to be no clarity about the police evidence until trial. But, remember they say if a deal seems too good to be true, it probably is (not true). The same applies to speculation - if it seems too wild to be true, it probably is (not true).

As Hawkins said, the perpetrator of this act is very unlikely to ever confess exactly what happened (sorry if I paraphrased that badly). That's something the forum may have to come to grips with, we may never know what really happened. However I think we can rest safe in the knowledge that the person responsible will be charged, and there will be enough evidence to convict them.
 
Regarding the "SHE" written on the path, it looks to me to have been done a while ago with a pressure cleaner. Does anyone know how long the BC's had been renting that house?
 
This is second hand hearsay so may not be reliable but a recently retired brisbane homicide detective mentioned to one of my family members that Allison and gbc were seperated. No other details were mentioned but I thought it was interesting. Pure speculation but perhaps this may have been very early on and they had not announced it to family yet. He may have been planning on moving on with the mistress and Allison threatened to make sure he walks away with nothing which likely would infuriate gbc and his mistress. Pure speculation of course. This could also be the reason gbc and none of his family was not listed in the funeral notice as loving husband etc if they were in fact aware of a separation.
 
Sorry I have been out of the loop on what's been posted in the latest thread or 2, and understand people have already confirmed Allison's children were not home on the Thursday night.

This is the first time I've seen it in print :
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-ipswich-funeral/story-e6freoof-1226350333476

"It is now more than three weeks since Mrs Baden-Clay's three girls saw their mother for the last time, when she dropped them off for a night with their friends."

Hope that's not repeating anything previously posted. It would tally with the comments someone claimed Allison made to her hairdresser too, and other comments from people suggesting they knew her.
 
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