What evidence does the prosecution have?

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HiHater said:
It implies "doctor shopping" on Zimmerman's behalf, and not falsification on a doctor's behalf.

JMO
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I saw nothing there about 'doctor shopping.' The implication was that he took a long time to' find someone' to write up some documents. I think it was pretty clear what the implication was, imo.

the term 'willing to document something' does not imply a regular, honest doctor visit with the regular paperwork. Why wouldn't a doctor be 'willing' to document a regular dcotor's appointment? ALL appointments MUST be documented.

ETA;and saying ' it took awhile' ---that in itself implies it is false documentation. How else would it take awhile? He saw a doctor the next day. So the ONLY way it would have taken awhile is if it was false.
 
HiHater said:
It implies "doctor shopping" on Zimmerman's behalf, and not falsification on a doctor's behalf.

JMO
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'Doctor shopping' implies going to various doctors until you find ones that will fill bogus descriptions, etc. So how is it not implying something negative about the doctor?

And what does it mean that he 'doctor shopped?' What did this doctor do that the alleged 'other doctors' would not do?

Again, it is obvious that there is an accusation implied, imo.
 
wowitsdark said:
As was pointed out, however, at that point in time, nobody had a clue this case would become a national issue.

There would have been no reason for GZ to think he needed to create a cover story at that point. He had already been questioned at length by the police the night before, and I would assume that the stories he told each of them (the police and the Dr.) align.
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I would say the fact that there was a 17 year old that was lying dead in the morgue would be reason enough to do everything possible to make sure that the self defense story would stick. We have already heard in court that there were various stories told to LE by GZ and we have heard the numerous versions from his family and original attorneys (shaken baby syndrome, anyone?). MOO.
 
BiancaS said:
I would say the fact that there was a 17 year old that was lying dead in the morgue would be reason enough to do everything possible to make sure that the self defense story would stick. We have already heard in court that there were various stories told to LE by GZ and we have heard the numerous versions from his family and original attorneys (shaken baby syndrome, anyone?). MOO.
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At that point no one knew who he was or how old he was.
 
Well, I stopped the video and captured images of the medical report. SURPRISE!! Things are not exactly as ABC reported and everyone else is repeating! GZ told the Doctor he had a broken nose, the doctor said it was probably the case and recommended he see an ENT. GZ told the doctor he would not be going right on the spot! And, contrary to what his brother and father had said, the report says there were no sutures needed due to the "well approximated skin margins." They had said he should have had stitches, but it was too late.

He was also complaining about his tonsils and his joints were achy. And he has irritable bowel syndrome.

He did get some pain pills out of the visit.

By the way, this ABC video confirms that he refused to go to the hospital the night of the incident.
 

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BiancaS said:
Well, I stopped the video and captured images of the medical report. SURPRISE!! Things are not exactly as ABC reported and everyone else is repeating! GZ told the Doctor he had a broken nose, the doctor said it was probably the case and recommended he see an ENT. GZ told the doctor he would not be going right on the spot! And, contrary to what his brother and father had said, the report says there were no sutures needed due to the "well approximated skin margins." They had said he should have had stitches, but it was too late.

He was also complaining about his tonsils and his joints were achy. And he has irritable bowel syndrome.

He did get some pain pills out of the visit.

By the way, this ABC video confirms that he refused to go to the hospital the night of the incident.
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I see the words "We documented that it was likely broken." but I'm not seeing where Mr. Zimmerman told the doctor he had a broken nose, and even then the verbiage could have been "I think my nose is broken" and apparently the doctor agreed.

This could be because the image is so small that you can't really make anything out, also. A full sized image would be nice, otherwise I'll just wait for the release.

Edit: As a side note, tonsils aching.. caused by yelling perhaps? I'm not a med person so I can't say.
 
AJ Noiter said:
I see the words "We documented that it was likely broken." but I'm not seeing where Mr. Zimmerman told the doctor he had a broken nose, and even then the verbiage could have been "I think my nose is broken" and apparently the doctor agreed.

This could be because the image is so small that you can't really make anything out, also. A full sized image would be nice, otherwise I'll just wait for the release.
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Correction: It reads "We discussed that it was likely broken." Not 'documented.'
 
I don't see anything contradictory in what the media was reporting and what I could see of the doctor's report (I went to abcnews.com and watched the video full-screen and paused on the report pages). The doctor listed broken nose as a diagnosis in the top section of the page. In the report, he says that the nose was likely broken and that the black eyes and swelling are typical with that type of injury.

The "pain pill" was Lodine, which is just an NSAID (anti-inflammatory).
 
Sherbie said:
I don't see anything contradictory in what the media was reporting and what I could see of the doctor's report (I went to abcnews.com and watched the video full-screen and paused on the report pages). The doctor listed broken nose as a diagnosis in the top section of the page. In the report, he says that the nose was likely broken and that the black eyes and swelling are typical with that type of injury.

The "pain pill" was Lodine, which is just an NSAID (anti-inflammatory).
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They should have taken xrays When I was in a car accident and hit my nose on the dashboard, xrays were taken. The doctor requested the xrays of my nose. I was glad there were no breaks.
 
Sun48shine said:
They should have taken xrays When I was in a car accident and hit my nose on the dashboard, xrays were taken. The doctor requested the xrays of my nose. I was glad there were no breaks.
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Sometimes not all measures need to be taken. From stories told here on these forums I've gathered that it's common for black eyes to occur with a broken nose. Given the amount of pain, where it's coming from, and the black eyes it may be enough for a doctor to determine that the cause is a fractured nose.

Just my thought.

Edit: An example that I -can- speak of is tumors. I have a rather large tumor under my left eye. When I saw my doctor about it he moved it around for a few seconds and said it was nothing to worry about. He didn't need to do a biopsy to know this, and I can't tell you why. I trust his judgement even though it does bother me not knowing how he would know without doing a biopsy.
 
katydid23 said:
You really think a doctor is going to falsify medical records and use them in a felony murder case?

It is not that easy to do that. It is very easy for the feds to check back with his other records and verify everything. He would have to have nurses and receptionists agree to lie under oath as well.

Are you serious, or are you making a joke?
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bbm

I certainly do not know whether THIS doctor would falsify anything but I can state for a fact that doctors falsify records and LIE regularly.

During my son-in-law's residency in neurosurgery he moonlighted for a workman's comp insurance company to help supplement his poverty level hospital resident's salary. He had a wife and three toddlers at home.

He was hired as one of the insurance company's investigating/diagnostic doctors. He examined about a dozen patients before the insurance company told him to totally dispute and/or minimize the disabled worker's injuries.

The company wanted him to LIE and state the workers did not have injuries when they clearly did. My son-in-law immediately quit. He would not do it! However, he knew several other doctors, also told to lie, who did not quit.

I could give several other examples, but I think everyone realizes that there are people in every profession who will LIE and CHEAT for financial gain.

So, do I think "a doctor would falsify medical records?" I absolutely KNOW that some physicians WOULD and routinely DO!

BTW, it is NOT that difficult to fudge medical documents; and almost all the workman's comp cases involved court cases of one type or another -- though not murder cases.

imo
 
AJ Noiter said:
At that point no one knew who he was or how old he was.
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SO WHAT?

He was still and unarmed obviously very young man who was pursued and shot dead simply because he was a *suspicious* Black man walking.

And don't forget the lead homicide detective wanted Zimmerman arrested for manslaughter THAT NIGHT!

imo
 
GrandmaTo4 said:
bbm

I certainly do not know whether THIS doctor would falsify anything but I can state for a fact that doctors falsify records and LIE regularly.

During my son-in-law's residency in neurosurgery he moonlighted for a workman's comp insurance company to help supplement his poverty level hospital resident's salary. He had a wife and three toddlers at home.

He was hired as one of the insurance company's investigating/diagnostic doctors. He examined about a dozen patients before the insurance company told him to totally dispute and/or minimize the disabled worker's injuries.

The company wanted him to LIE and state the workers did not have injuries when they clearly did. My son-in-law immediately quit. He would not do it! However, he knew several other doctors, also told to lie, who did not quit.

I could give several other examples, but I think everyone realizes that there are people in every profession who will LIE and CHEAT for financial gain.

So, do I think "a doctor would falsify medical records?" I absolutely KNOW that some physicians WOULD and routinely DO!

BTW, it is NOT that difficult to fudge medical documents; and almost all the workman's comp cases involved court cases of one type or another -- though not murder cases.

imo
Click to expand...

This is Florida, home of more Medicare fraud than you can imagine, all done by doctors. Also home of more pain pill mills that had people traveling from every State to visit. Not my opinion, absolute fact. Sad, but true.
 
GrandmaTo4 said:
SO WHAT?

He was still and unarmed obviously very young man who was pursued and shot dead simply because he was a *suspicious* Black man walking.

And don't forget the lead homicide detective wanted Zimmerman arrested for manslaughter THAT NIGHT!

imo
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I believe this cause and effect statement supposes too much.

This post states that TM was shot *because* he was a suspicious black man.

GZ had encountered a number of suspicious individuals during his time watching the neighborhood, but this was the first and only one on whom he ever pulled and used a weapon. I believe that means something different occurred with this suspect. Confrontation wasn't part of GZ's pattern of behavior.

Pursuit is a term that also supposes too much. It implies an intent to catch up with. We do not know if that was his intent, or if it was simply to maintain visual contact.
 
BiancaS said:
Well, I stopped the video and captured images of the medical report. SURPRISE!! Things are not exactly as ABC reported and everyone else is repeating! GZ told the Doctor he had a broken nose, the doctor said it was probably the case and recommended he see an ENT. GZ told the doctor he would not be going right on the spot! And, contrary to what his brother and father had said, the report says there were no sutures needed due to the "well approximated skin margins." They had said he should have had stitches, but it was too late.

He was also complaining about his tonsils and his joints were achy. And he has irritable bowel syndrome.

He did get some pain pills out of the visit.

By the way, this ABC video confirms that he refused to go to the hospital the night of the incident.
Click to expand...

bbm

LOL, of course! _ :rolleyes:

Having a doctor of osteopathy, (a medical practice that emphasizes the treatment of medical disorders through the manipulation and massage of the bones, joints, and muscles) agree that you *MIGHT* have a broken nose is much safer than seeing an ENT physician who is much more qualified to determine that the nose was NOT broken.

Zimmerman got what he wanted with the OD doctor's IFFY agreement about his nose. Why would he go anywhere else where the tentative diagnosis could be unreservedly contradicted?

George might not be the brightest bulb in the chandelier, but he's not completely stoopid either. _ :D

imo
 
GrandmaTo4 said:
bbm

LOL, of course! _ :rolleyes:

Having a doctor of osteopathy, (a medical practice that emphasizes the treatment of medical disorders through the manipulation and massage of the bones, joints, and muscles) agree that you *MIGHT* have a broken nose is much safer than seeing an ENT physician who is much more qualified to determine that the nose was NOT broken.

Zimmerman got what he wanted with the OD doctor's IFFY agreement about his nose. Why would he go anywhere else where the tentative diagnosis could be unreservedly contradicted?

George might not be the brightest bulb in the chandelier, but he's not completely stoopid either. _ :D

imo
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How did he get the black eyes? Don't you get black eyes when you have a broken nose?
 
GrandmaTo4 said:
bbm

I certainly do not know whether THIS doctor would falsify anything but I can state for a fact that doctors falsify records and LIE regularly.

During my son-in-law's residency in neurosurgery he moonlighted for a workman's comp insurance company to help supplement his poverty level hospital resident's salary. He had a wife and three toddlers at home.

He was hired as one of the insurance company's investigating/diagnostic doctors. He examined about a dozen patients before the insurance company told him to totally dispute and/or minimize the disabled worker's injuries.

The company wanted him to LIE and state the workers did not have injuries when they clearly did. My son-in-law immediately quit. He would not do it! However, he knew several other doctors, also told to lie, who did not quit.

I could give several other examples, but I think everyone realizes that there are people in every profession who will LIE and CHEAT for financial gain.

So, do I think "a doctor would falsify medical records?" I absolutely KNOW that some physicians WOULD and routinely DO!

BTW, it is NOT that difficult to fudge medical documents; and almost all the workman's comp cases involved court cases of one type or another -- though not murder cases.

imo
Click to expand...


There is so much social security check fraud and SSI fraud going on where people get their doctors to write medical documentation stating that they can no longer work.

I work for Social Security Administration and hear of a lot of fraud cases. My cousin worked in the Labor Relations department and had to attend a lot of the Appeals Hearings. He said their were a lot of strange cases at the hearings.


Just questions going through my mind. What are your thoughts on this? --
Could it be possible that GZ's father could be a very close friend with the doctor? Could his father have helped the doctor in a malpractice case?
 
Sun48shine said:
There is so much social security check fraud and SSI fraud going on where people get their doctors to write medical documentation stating that they can no longer work.

I work for Social Security Administration and hear of a lot of fraud cases. My cousin worked in the Labor Relations department and had to attend a lot of the Appeals Hearings. He said their were a lot of strange cases at the hearings.


Just questions going through my mind. What are your thoughts on this? --
Could it be possible that GZ's father could be a very close friend with the doctor? Could his father have helped the doctor in a malpractice case?
Click to expand...

Big thing these days is getting a doctors note saying a pet is medically necessary, therefore getting a condo association to allow pets where they are prohibited.

Note that the doctor's office is located closer to Lake Mary (where his parents live) than to Sanford. His father was with him the next day for the re-enactment, I'm sure he was there for the doctor's visit. I'm sure he helped script the medical report. MOO.
 
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