GUILTY Australia - Kiesha Weippeart, 6, Mount Druitt, NSW, 18 July 2010 - #2

The arrest is puzzling. It's almost made for a movie if the ambush while they were visiting her grave is in fact true.

Like you BWI, I have so many questions, these being just a few:

- I wonder if Kiesha was really wearing pink pyjama's and a purple jacket

- If the children were removed from their care during the week (prior to their arrest), surely K & R knew something was about to happen. So why would they plan a trip to her burial site? Surely they must have known they were teetering on the edge of freedom?

- Is there really only one murderer and the other helped cover it up? I'm leaning towards K particularly given that Police may re-open the investigation into Ayden's death. Also, perhaps by charging both with murder, the other one will open up and provide all the horrifying details. I just can't get my head around the brutality and sadistic nature of two grown adults both murdering a child.

- I wonder if R's mother knew what happened. The three of them did appear close and she was very supportive of their innocence when other friends and family were dropping off.

- I wonder how the WHO magazine feel now after paying K & R a considerable some of money for photo's of Kiesha.

There are so many other questions, hopefully the trial will answer some of them.

Help! I can't find any links anywhere that state that B and L were removed from K&R's custody prior to this happening.

butwhatif? said:

BBM- The police allege that BOTH Kristi and Rob were in the taxi together with the suitcase, but that Rob alone burned the suitcase.
( I sooooooo badly want to know how they know this)

The taxi driver may have been working illegally. K&R may have hailed a cab from the street so there were no names/numbers attached to the trip that LE could follow up on. They could have gotten the driver to stop short of the reserve, where houses are , saying they were going to stay with friends/family.
The taxi drivers I know work really long hours and are more likely to hear the news than see it. So the driver may never have seen K&R on the news to be able to recognise them as parents of a missing child....and the ones who had been in his cab.....or he didn't want to get involved......or someone claimed K&R used a taxi, to cover for whoever might have really taken them there.

The area had been searched early on by LE and later by public searchers, and one public searcher was adamant that LE do a more thorough search there- but not sure if cadaver dogs were ever utilised.

Questions abound:

*Who was looking after the other kids while K&R were doing all of this? Or did they just leave the kids at home to fend for themselves?
*How/when did they get back to Woodstock Ave?
*Did Rob burn the suitcase at the same time/location?

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Thanks BWI,

I was surprised to see Kiesha was buried in an open area in the woods.

I too doubt R&K buried Kiesha together but they may have. K&R had a newborn and a toddler to take care of and Rob said he couldn't assist in the search for Kiesha because their children needed them but I wouldn't be shocked to learn Kristi did leave her children who were completely dependent on her alone occasionally. CPS was called many many times to investigate allegations Kiesha was being grossly abused at home and they were powerless to stop it so Kristi didn’t live in fear of loosing her children. Remember when Kristi went upstairs to visit her neighbor shortly after her son was born without Kiesha? IIRC Kiesha's sister wasn’t there either and Kristi didn't explain where her daughters were so perhaps she left them alone at home. She didn't say the girls were in her husband's care and AFAIK, the neighbor didn't ask her where they were.

This sick couple have emotionally wounded and deeply scarred a lot of people. I suspect the reason Kristi is distraught in jail is because they got caught. She was sure cocky before they were arrested; flashing her finger with **** U written on it at the camera and chanting "don't judge me". She didn't attend her daughter's vigil either IIRC.

If she murdered her firstborn, she got away with murder once already and she was free to visit his grave whenever she pleased, so perhaps this is why she figured she could visit her daughter's gravesite and she wasn't able to differentiate and take the cost involved seriously.

One of these two should have put their foot down when their partner suggested they visit Kiesha's gravesite on her Birthday and made them see what they stood to loose if they followed through with such an absurd idea. One of them should have refused to discuss the matter any further and refused to accompany them. But this couple is very unstable and they aren't able to offer each other the love and emotional support they need to "make it" so they blindly walked into a situation most couples would have chosen to avoid. On the other hand, I am glad they did make this choice because they lost their right to raise their remaining children and now they have to face and live with the consequences of their actions. Fortunately Justice is being served in this case.

butwhatif? said:

Help! I can't find any links anywhere that state that B and L were removed from K&R's custody prior to this happening.

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So many news articles have been removed from websites - understandable really. When small children are involved, I think it's important to protect their identity.

On that note, I'm wondering if all news articles referring to Kiesha as 'Kiesha Abrahams' may provide an advantage for detectives and the prosecution. Technically, that's not her name - I'm assuming it's 'Keisha Weippart' (spelling?). Maybe it was a strategic (and smart) move on behalf of the investigative detectives to let that name be touted about. :waitasec:

I suspect the reason Kristi is distraught in jail is because they got caught.

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Oh for sure. It amazes me that when people are arrested they weep, they cry, they collapse ... the only thing they're upset about is getting caught, not the actual crime (I'm certain of that). Do we know if K is no stranger to jail? I'm sure she would know the welcoming she'll receive in prison for a crime such as hers.

Bluesky#1 said:

Thanks BWI,

I was surprised to see Kiesha was buried in an open area in the woods.

I too doubt R&K buried Kiesha together but they may have. K&R had a newborn and a toddler to take care of and Rob said he couldn't assist in the search for Kiesha because their children needed them but I wouldn't be shocked to learn Kristi did leave her children who were completely dependent on her alone occasionally. CPS was called many many times to investigate allegations Kiesha was being grossly abused at home and they were powerless to stop it so Kristi didn’t live in fear of loosing her children. Remember when Kristi went upstairs to visit her neighbor shortly after her son was born without Kiesha? IIRC Kiesha's sister wasn’t there either and Kristi didn't explain where her daughters were so perhaps she left them alone at home. She didn't say the girls were in her husband's care and AFAIK, the neighbor didn't ask her where they were.

This sick couple have emotionally wounded and deeply scarred a lot of people. I suspect the reason Kristi is distraught in jail is because they got caught. She was sure cocky before they were arrested; flashing her finger with **** U written on it at the camera and chanting "don't judge me". She didn't attend her daughter's vigil either IIRC.

If she murdered her firstborn, she got away with murder once already and she was free to visit his grave whenever she pleased, so perhaps this is why she figured she could visit her daughter's gravesite and she wasn't able to differentiate and take the cost involved seriously.

One of these two should have put their foot down when their partner suggested they visit Kiesha's gravesite on her Birthday and made them see what they stood to loose if they followed through with such an absurd idea. One of them should have refused to discuss the matter any further and refused to accompany them. But this couple is very unstable and they aren't able to offer each other the love and emotional support they need to "make it" so they blindly walked into a situation most couples would have chosen to avoid. On the other hand, I am glad they did make this choice because they lost their right to raise their remaining children and now they have to face and live with the consequences of their actions. Fortunately Justice is being served in this case.

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BBM- that's why I find the comment about the neighbour overhearing increasing arguments in the days leading up to the arrest so intriguing. Was K pushing for the visit, and R knew better, and that's why he was getting so angry?
She could have told R that if he didn't go with her for the b'day visit, she would tell the police everything.

It just stinks of a trap to me....Just my gut feeling

IMO, She's gotten cocky and thinks she can get away with anything,

I know the phones were bugged- but that just doesn't add up for me. If they were drug users, even in the past, they would know to never talk specifics on a phone....especially one that had been in the hands of police!

Would certainly be interesting to see the surveillance of the night to see the demeanor/body language of both.


Would be even better to find out that K thought she was working with the cops to pin this on Rob, when they were actually using her to get both of them. arty:

RE: upstairs neighbour:

'I nursed it right here,'' the neighbour said yesterday as police dusted for fingerprints downstairs. ''But I haven't seen the little girl for a while,'' he said. ''Can't remember when … The mum seemed fine.''

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^ From the 3rd Aug, which puts the visit around 1 week after the murder and a few days after the body disposal....and Kristi.seemed.fine. :maddening:
That's gonna really hurt her come trial time.

-13 days between L's birth and Kiesha alleged DOD
-16 days between L's birth and kieshas alleged body disposal
-11 days between alleged DOD and date Kiesha was reported missing.....11 days to cover everything up.

JMO

I am starting to doubt the taxi story (its possible to me that the brothers car was used)....also I thought they were followed there by police because of a tip off...do we think they actually TOLD someone else? Can't imagine anyone in Sydney not knowing their faces with the coverage, especially someone picking up a couple with a stinky suitcase to take into the bush!! All shall be revealed at trial no doubt.

From the day of the arrests:

http://mt-druitt-standard.whereilive.com.au/news/story/kiesha-abrahams-case-breakthrough/

Det Insp Oxford confirmed the couple’s other children were removed by officers from the Department of Community Services earlier this week.

butwhatif? said:

Help! I can't find any links anywhere that state that B and L were removed from K&R's custody prior to this happening.

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I always find it both heartening and heartbreaking that other people care about these kids... so much more than their own parents.


Love For Kiesha Abrahams Beats Flames

Just hours after a teddy bear tumbled on to a candle, sending Kiesha's memorial wall up in flames, mourners had begun to rebuild the display.

The blackened fence outside Kiesha's former home on Woodstock Ave, Mt Druitt, was decorated with fresh flowers, toys and cards soon after firefighters left yesterday.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...ams-beats-flames/story-e6freuy9-1226044162463


Fire Destroys Kiesha Abrahams Memorial

Investigators do not believe the blaze was deliberately lit and fire fighters have returned to the site this morning to try to restore as much of it as possible.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...brahams-memorial/story-e6freuy9-1226044023337

I think Kiesha was already dead the day Kristi went to talk with her neighbor who lived above her and the reason she went was because her and Robert wanted to know if she heard anything the night Kiesha was murdered.

From Rob's dad:

''It's hard to believe he had something to do with this. I'd like to think he had nothing to do with it.''

Mr Smith said his son's mother, Rebecca, had visited him in custody yesterday where he was ''fairly upset''. He planned to see him today.

But Mr Smith said he did not get along with his de facto daughter-in-law, Ms Abrahams. ''I myself didn't like her a lot, but that's just a personal opinion.''

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And...

Despite earlier indications from police that they would reopen an investigation into the death of Kiesha's brother, homicide Detective Inspector Russell Oxford said yesterday he had consulted colleagues and it would not go ahead.

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^BBM

More from Chris' mum at link...

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/kieshas-stepfather-barely-says-boo-20110426-1dv5q.html#ixzz1Kg6sXy2r

Have some tissues on stand-by for this one....

A grieving dad's final tribute to Kiesha Abrahams

The pair told The Daily Telegraph they would lay Kiesha to rest with the dignity and respect she was robbed of for the nine months she lay in a shallow bush grave.

The child's family said they hoped to bury her alongside her older brother Ayden, who died in 2003 when he was just a few weeks old.

"That's what I want, both my kids together, brother and sister there with one another to keep each other happy," Mr Weippeart said. The family also requested Kiesha's surname be returned to the name she was born with.

"On her birth certificate she is Kiesha Weippeart, and that's how we would like her remembered," Mrs Weippeart said.

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http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/na...-kiesha-abrahams/story-e6frf7l6-1226045307434

Wow! The last 9 months have taken such a physical toll on Chris. He looks so fragile.

Kiesha's stepfather barely says boo
THE man charged with the murder of six-year-old Kiesha Abrahams has been described as a quiet fellow who barely says ''boo''.
Robert Smith, 31, is being held on remand awaiting his next court appearance on Friday after being charged last week with killing his stepdaughter. Kiesha's mother, Kristi Anne Abrahams, 28, has also been charged with murdering the little girl last July.
More...

The post-mortem examination at Glebe Coroners Court in Sydney on the skeletal remains is expected to be finalised today.

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http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...-kieshas-funeral/story-e6frg6nf-1226045234400

This latest news comes comes when detectives hope to have skeletal remains found in a shallow bush grave identified this week.

A post mortem is also expected to determine the cause of death.

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http://mt-druitt-standard.whereilive.com.au/news/story/breakthrough-weekend-in-kiesha-abrahams-case/

Not sure if that bit about COD is to explain to readers in general that a PM can usually provide a COD , or that they mean it is possible that it can be determined with Kiesha's remains. Fingers crossed

A good read.....

Vicious threats of an online mob rescue no children

Another group titled ''No death penalty for Kristi Abrahams, the bi*ch needs to suffer'' also attracted more than 1000 members before it was shut down. Members of that group referred to the pair as ''cannibals'', ''mutts'' and ''cowards'' and many described in detail the modes of torture they would like to inflict on the pair.
The Australian Institute of Health and Welfare estimates that about 33,000 Australian children suffered some form of abuse last year. Yet a survey of 22,000 people by the National Association for Prevention of Child Abuse and Neglect found more than half of Australians say they would turn a blind eye when confronted with signs of abuse.

They would do so for fear that they might be wrong (48 per cent), because it was not their business (42 per cent), because they would not know what to do (38 per cent) or because they did not want to admit that the abuse had happened (22 per cent). Only one person in three would contact the police if a child disclosed sexual abuse.

In other words, while certain individuals are all too eager to get up on their soapboxes after the fact, few of us would step up and take responsibility if we were presented with signs of abuse.

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Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/socie...no-children-20110426-1dv0n.html#ixzz1Kgx4tMxX

The autopsy has been inconclusive.

Bluesky#1 said:

I am so upset to hear K&R had 36 complaints filed against them for abuse before Kiesha was murdered and that the amount of blood found in her home strongly suggests she was murdered there.

"Blood was allegedly found on the floor, doors, lounge and bedsheets of the home when the unit was foresically searched."

Since Kiesha's body was transported in a suitcase in a taxi, the taxi driver should have contacted LE shortly after K&R reported Kiesha missing. If he/she had, perhaps LE could have located Kiesha's remains much sooner.

Remember the shovel that was found hidden in a drain pipe? Would Rob have taken a shovel with him in the suitcase?

I recall Rob and Kristi's account of what happened the night before & morning Kiesha allegedly "went missing" and how unbelieveable they were. Thank God Kiesha's other siblings won't have to grow up under these horrendous conditions.

This article seems to indicate R&K told someone they were planning to visit Kiesha's grave and they tipped off LE. If that is the case, this person will be entitled to the reward money. I wonder if Rob's mother who gave them a ride was the tipster ?

"The couple was unaware they had been monitored for police for sometime before they were arrested, with intelligence gathered by indicating they would visit the child's burial site some time around her birthday.

I'm so sad you were treated so cruelly Kiesha.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8240490/accused-killers-visited-bush-grave

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bbm

Yep, definitely something wrong with their timeline. I remember commenting at the time (as I had watched the Golden Compass that night too) that their timeline was hinky. IIRC they stated they put her to bed just before the movie finished which I thought was a load of bullcrap as you wouldn't let a child watch all that way into a movie to put them to bed 10 mins before it finishes.

darnudes said:

bbm

Yep, definitely something wrong with their timeline. I remember commenting at the time (as I had watched the Golden Compass that night too) that their timeline was hinky. IIRC they stated they put her to bed just before the movie finished which I thought was a load of bullcrap as you wouldn't let a child watch all that way into a movie to put them to bed 10 mins before it finishes.

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This statement immediately made me suspect her parents had "interferred" and hurt Kiesha. However Kiesha was already deceased when Kristi and Rob claimed she went missing sometime between Saturday night and Sunday morning. There was a report stating Kiesha wasn't removed from the flat until 3 days after she died as a result of her injuries. Unless Kristi and Rob tell the truth, we may never know the date and time of her death.

I was hoping the autopsy would find trauma to the skull or broken bones since a significant amount of Kiesha's blood was found in her home. If Kiesha had been suffocated or died from a drug overdose, there wouldn't have been any traces of blood found.

I didn’t believe Kristi either. Kristi claimed she tucked Kiesha into her bed at 9:30pm and she reported her eldest daughter missing on Sunday morning after she went into her room and discovered her bed was empty and the front door ajar, although it showed no sign of forced entry. Ms Abrahams had told police she put her daughter to bed at 9.30 pm and noticed her missing at 10 am on Sunday, though she had told a friend she noticed her daughter gone about 9 am. Kristi makes it sound like she slept in Sunday morning and parents with young children usually are up at the crack of dawn taking care of their children.

Nine o'clock is when business hours begin so it makes you think these two were actually taking care of business.

Most youngsters get up at the crack of dawn and Ms. Abrahams was nursing a newborn. There was another toddler living in the home too, so IMO Kristi should have awoken to find her eldest daughter missing sooner by several hours. She also said she wasn’t sure if the front door was locked when they went to sleep.

When asked if he had any suspicions where Kiesha might be, Mr Smith said: ''I have no idea. If I had any idea we'd be there looking.''

Is this the area in which Kiesha was found?

A psychic has also described to police a vision of Kiesha in bushland behind Amelia Way at Bidwell. The bush is a dumping spot with couches and old clothes littered throughout the grass.

http://www.news.com.au/national/kie...er/story-e6frfkvr-1225903160022#ixzz1KkqDpEsu

Home to tragedy - inside Kiesha Abrahams' death flat


http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...ahams-death-flat/story-e6freuzi-1226045898008

^ shows pictures of the refurbished Woodstock Ave unit.

Link to inconclusive PM results.....

Further tests will be needed to determine whether the remains, found scattered through bushland at Shalvey, in Sydney's west, belong to the six-year-old.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/kiesha-more-tests-needed-on-remains-20110428-1dxdv.html#ixzz1KlVXqCzc

Bluesky#1 said:

[/B]
This statement immediately made me suspect her parents had "interferred" and hurt Kiesha. However Kiesha was already deceased when Kristi and Rob claimed she went missing sometime between Saturday night and Sunday morning. There was a report stating Kiesha wasn't removed from the flat until 3 days after she died as a result of her injuries. Unless Kristi and Rob tell the truth, we may never know the date and time of her death.

I was hoping the autopsy would find trauma to the skull or broken bones since a significant amount of Kiesha's blood was found in her home. If Kiesha had been suffocated or died from a drug overdose, there wouldn't have been any traces of blood found.

I didn’t believe Kristi either. Kristi claimed she tucked Kiesha into her bed at 9:30pm and she reported her eldest daughter missing on Sunday morning after she went into her room and discovered her bed was empty and the front door ajar, although it showed no sign of forced entry. Ms Abrahams had told police she put her daughter to bed at 9.30 pm and noticed her missing at 10 am on Sunday, though she had told a friend she noticed her daughter gone about 9 am. Kristi makes it sound like she slept in Sunday morning and parents with young children usually are up at the crack of dawn taking care of their children.

Nine o'clock is when business hours begin so it makes you think these two were actually taking care of business.

Most youngsters get up at the crack of dawn and Ms. Abrahams was nursing a newborn. There was another toddler living in the home too, so IMO Kristi should have awoken to find her eldest daughter missing sooner by several hours. She also said she wasn’t sure if the front door was locked when they went to sleep.

When asked if he had any suspicions where Kiesha might be, Mr Smith said: ''I have no idea. If I had any idea we'd be there looking.''

Is this the area in which Kiesha was found?

A psychic has also described to police a vision of Kiesha in bushland behind Amelia Way at Bidwell. The bush is a dumping spot with couches and old clothes littered throughout the grass.

http://www.news.com.au/national/kie...er/story-e6frfkvr-1225903160022#ixzz1KkqDpEsu

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BBM- both Amelia way and Freya cres back onto the same reserve/ area of land but the distance between is about 2.5 km's.
ETA: They were arrested at Freya Cres, but the body was further into the bushland.

Home to tradedy - inside Kiesha Abrahams' death flat
HERE is the first look inside the Mt Druitt unit where Kiesha Abrahams was allegedly killed by her mother and stepfather.
Within these walls, the six-year-old girl spent the last days of her life before her body was allegedly carried away inside a suitcase and buried in a bush grave at nearby Shalvey.
More...

More tests needed on remains
A post mortem performed on skeletal remains found by police investigating the alleged murder of Kiesha Abrahams was inconclusive, police say.
Further tests will be needed to determine whether the remains, found scattered through bushland at Shalvey, in Sydney's west, belong to the six-year-old.
More...

Daad vows dignity for little Kiesha
THE mourners will wear purple, the music will be songs from Hannah Montana, and little Kiesha Abrahams will finally get a dignified burial.
The father and grandmother of the murdered schoolgirl on Tuesday said they were determined to give Kiesha a farewell befitting the "princess" she was to everyone who knew and loved her.
More...

Dad Chris Weippeart plans loving farewell for Kiesha
THE mourners will wear purple, the music will include songs from Hannah Montana and little Kiesha Abrahams will finally get a dignified burial.
The father and grandmother of the murdered schoolgirl said yesterday they were determined to give Kiesha a farewell befitting the "princess" she was to everyone who knew her.
Chris Weippeart and his mother Liz vowed to overcome the horrible circumstances of her death by giving her a funeral filled with love and colour.
The pair said they would lay Kiesha to rest with the dignity and respect she was denied for the nine months she lay in a bush grave.
More...

I am surprised they announced Kiesha was murdered on Tuesday, July 20th, 2010. I thought because she has been deceased for 9 months, an examination of her remains would not be able to determine the day she died.

<snip>
Her mother, Kristi Anne Abrahams, 28, and step-father, Robert Smith, 31, were charged on Good Friday with murdering the little girl on July 20 last year.

This is a snippet from a report that was released shortly after Kiesha was reported missing by her mother:
"Police say they are now investigating reports provided by a female neighbour who claims she saw the young girl on their street on July 23 or 24."

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/kiesha-more-tests-needed-on-remains-20110428-1dxdv.html

The flat Kiesha's family occupied has 2 bedrooms and a media report said Kiesha had her own bedroom which was located near the front door. AFAIK, LE never confirmed she had her own bedroom but it seems more plausible Kiesha shared a bedroom with her younger sister.