WI WI - Evelyn Hartley, 15, La Crosse, 24 Oct 1953

Robin Hood said:

I've just looked briefly on the net and found this http://hubpages.com/hub/Seriously-Interesting-Facts-about-Ed-Gein-Serial-Killer

Penises ? scrotum ? where did they come from ? maybe a little exageration from the author.

Any cemetrys near to where Evelyn was babysitting ?

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There were three within a mile of the home, 2 of which less than 1/2 mile.

I read about the farmer finding the jacket as well, and his explanation was that he was working , saw it, tossed in his truck on the chance it could be related to the Hartley case and alerted police when he got the chance. Most likely he couldn't just stop what he was doing at that moment. Hard to say though.

Also, all of Gein's victims weren't already dead when he took them. The last victim (and the one who's murder led to his arrest) Bernice Worden, was shot in the head by Gein as she worked in her hardware store. He also admitted to shooting to death a tavern owner, who's head(or mask?) was found in his home. So his "MO" was to shoot people to death, when he wasn't grave robbing. I don't think there was evidence Evelyn was shot, though there was a lot of blood but no one heard any gunshots that night....He seemed to just shoot the victims, no trying to restrain them or attack them first. but who knows...

Another thought, is that he was able to easily shoot these women because he was in their place of business as a customer. If he saw Evelyn through the window and decided he wanted her, he couldn't just walk in the house as she would be startled and put up a struggle(as she did). The only thing would be to knock on the door and shoot her as she answered, but there was no evidence of that(no blood splashed about the house etc) and there was the evidence she fought for her life which she couldn't have done to easily after being shot. This could have been his attempt at breaking in and abducting of course. Like Punklove said, we need more proof of where that judge got the story of Gein being nearby that night.
I know I am rambling, can't get my thoughts out right!

punklove said:

Its kind of weird but when they found the jacket and shoes they felt that the same person couldnt have worn both items - the jacket was a medium and the shoes were sized 10, so they assumed that someone that would wear a size 10 shoe couldnt wear a Medium size jacket.

Oddly enough - one of the main reasons people saying that it couldnt have been him (other than him passing the lie detector test) is that he wore a size 9 shoe, and the shoes found were size 10 - he is also said to have weighed around 125 pounds, which would mean he could fit into a medium size jacket. Here is a photo that you can see that show his feet, they dont look all that small to me. Besides, wearing a shoe thats one size bigger doesnt see unthinkable.

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Maybe he was wearing some of his brothers clothes, it was only 10 years previous that he died and I get the impression they would have saved them, they didn't seem to be wealthy.

punklove said:

There were three within a mile of the home, 2 of which less than 1/2 mile.

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We'll never know if while perusing the cemetries he saw Evelyn, visiting relatives would be a good reason to be in the area.

joellegirl, if he was out armed with a spade and shovel and then the opportunity arose the old saying comes in to play...'sights you see when you haven't got a gun' comes into play. Just an idea.

True. Like I mentioned he may have tried the abducting route without a gun. It was just the way he usually got his live victims. Anything is possible with Ed Gein. Just would like to see more proof of his really being in La Crosse that night. I'm not saying he couldn't have done it. He very well could have. Maybe a new search with better technology of his property would be a good idea, but is probably a subdivision or strip mall now, which also could have turned up clues when building. Or it could still be open land.

joellegirl said:

True. Like I mentioned he may have tried the abducting route without a gun. It was just the way he usually got his live victims. Anything is possible with Ed Gein. Just would like to see more proof of his really being in La Crosse that night. I'm not saying he couldn't have done it. He very well could have. Maybe a new search with better technology of his property would be a good idea, but is probably a subdivision or strip mall now, which also could have turned up clues when building. Or it could still be open land.

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She also wasnt really his 'type', the women that he killed (and dug up) all had the same things in common - they all were older, larger heavy set women that resembled his mother. It seems like Evelyn was stabbed and not to be gross, but Gein wouldnt have used a knife on her due to the risk of harming whatever part of her body he would have wanted to use.

Ive been searching through old newspapers online and the only thing Ive ever been able to find that suggests that Gein was nearby that night is something that the Judge that was over the case later wrote in his book... The Judge said that Gein was within 2 blocks of the home visiting an 'aunt', yet his parents (George and Augusta Gein) had no living siblings, they also had no ties to the La Crosse area any longer. Although Gein was born there, when he was 8 years old his mother felt that it was 'evil' there and moved them to Plainfield on a 275 acre farm to remove her sons (and husband) from the temptation of evil.

His father died in 1940, his brother was murdered in 1944 (more than likely by him) and then his mother died late 1945. According to later investigation around 18 months after his mothers death was when he started to dig up graves - he would often go to where his mother was buried and would 'talk' with her, and later said that he started to get visions, which is what made him want to make himself into a woman so he started to read the paper and see what women that matched the type of woman he wanted had been freshly buried..

The only reason I bring any of this up is because even before the death of his mother he was very reclusive, which was part of his mothers doing - she was a very domineering woman who only very rarely allowed him to leave the farm, and wouldnt allow him to have any sort of friends. After his mothers death he suffered serious signs of agoraphobia and would very rarely leave the farm, and when he did only for short times.

Putting the alibi he had aside (he was doing handy man things for neighbors the day of) and the fact that he had no way to get to La Crosse and back (this car was later shown for 25 cents and billed as the car that "HAULED THE DEAD FROM THEIR GRAVES" but this wasnt true as it hadnt been driven in years) - going to 'visit' relatives that dont exist.

Im just not sure what to think - it just seems odd that there is only one person that says he was there that night, and it happens to be the Judge that wrote a book about it.

Robin Hood said:

Maybe he was wearing some of his brothers clothes, it was only 10 years previous that he died and I get the impression they would have saved them, they didn't seem to be wealthy.

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Its odd they would use the fact his shoe size was 1 size smaller than the shoes found as proof that it couldnt have been him - without a doubt the shoes could have been a size bigger and he could have worn them with no problem, and we know that he never threw anything out.

joellegirl said:

I read about the farmer finding the jacket as well, and his explanation was that he was working , saw it, tossed in his truck on the chance it could be related to the Hartley case and alerted police when he got the chance. Most likely he couldn't just stop what he was doing at that moment. Hard to say though.

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That was what I originally thought but that was before I saw the date that the police went to visit the farmer because of the rumor going around that he had the jacket.

The shoes were found on Oct 29th, other people in the area reported that there was a jacket on the side of the road several days before the shoes were found. The police followed up the rumor and went to the farmers home on Nov 17th and found that he had the jacket.

It was all over the news for weeks after the shoes were found that all farmers (and people) should make sure to look all over their property for any items that didnt belong there, why would the farmer never come forward?

Punklove, I have just read one of your posts on page 10

'The panties and bra were found two miles south of the Rasmussen home. The torn white shirt was found in a cemetery'

I'm starting to come round to it not being Gein but couldn't help thinking about the clothes in the cemetry.

There are such varying accounts with this crime that it makes one's head spin. Example, some news articles reported her bra and panties found two miles away, others say 14 miles away on RT 14 near the town of Coon Valley. Some articles say her blouse was found in a cemetery, some say her blouse and pants were never recovered. With just about every important point of the story, there are different statements.

I posted earlier links to Google to see street views of the neighborhood. I could still try to upload my photos, but these pretty much show the same thing. I took all mine from the car. The book has some great pictures, many from newspapers, but I don't think I can show those with out the author's permission.
A random thought....One time, about six years ago when we were in La Crosse visiting family, we had just driven thought "the" neighborhood and Evelyn was heavily on my mind. We stopped at a Walmart nearby and when I was walking in this older lady, maybe in her late 60's early 70's smiled and said hello to me. I think because she noticed me looking at her, because I swear she looked like Evelyn only older. It was eerie. I still can see her face clearly in my mind because she really reminded me of her. I don't think it was her of course but it was still startling.

In 1995 near the location of the old Gein home place parts of up to eleven human skeletons all female but one were discovered in a old well. Local police said that while they can not say 100 percent for certain it is in all likely hood that these 11 remains were the work of Ed Gein as they dated back to the time when he was on his killing spree in the area. One the only male was a mailman that vanished the year before Ed Gein was caught. Yes at the time of his disappearance he had been Ed Geins mail delivery person.


Never heard this before.

punklove said:

The jacket had blood stains (spots and smears) that were either type A or O, the most of the blood being on the back and front of the jacket, but there was a small amount of blood on the sleeves and neckline. The jacket was odd because it had been cut off (it was cut off around 2 inches below the tops of the bottom pockets) and rehemmed by a machine, the new hem was made with white thread (that didnt match the jacket).

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So if this was the perp's jacket then it sounds like he carried her on his back. What's strange is that there isn't much on the sleeves, leading me to believe this was a two-man job. He was the carrier, the other guy was the retriever.

I wonder if the shortened hem served some type of purpose, like keeping out of the way of some type of machine used or work belt, or was a safety thing (ie it was a work shirt but if he was shorter the shirt could have hung low enough to get stuck in some gears or whatnot).

joellegirl said:

Detectives took on the grisily task of looking at the heads and face masks etc of corpses but none matched Evelyn.

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EW. Oh my god he wore their FACES?!

punklove said:

Although Gein was born in La Crosse he lived in Plainfield which was about 112 miles away, the police apparently (according to the paper) went to the home of the farmer (not in Plainfield) and retrieved the jacket from there.

Not that it proves anything but Gein also passed a lie detector test about not being involved with the Hartley case.

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I don't know if he lacked confidence or was afraid of the outside world but I can't imagine someone that rarely leaves home drive 112 miles. Totally could be wrong though.

Claudette said:

EW. Oh my god he wore their FACES?!

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Even more disgusting is that a simple google search and you can see the face 'masks' that he made (along with a lot of other gross photos of his home and the things they found within it - not for the weak hearted), oddly enough Gein had neighbor 'friend' named Gus that helped Gein dig the graves up (as well as open the casket) when Gein started.. Gein told him that it was for ‘medical experiments’ and his friend seemed to have no issue helping him with it.

During the span of 10 years Gein would check the newspaper, looking for 'fresh' dead female bodies, wait for a full moon and then go to the grave yard to 'collect' the entire corpse or just the parts he wanted before taking the items he kept home.

The reason the Judge felt that Gein had something to do with Evelyn's case was due to the fact that when Geins home was searched they found a box of salted vulva's, two of which that belonged to young women when there were no young women in the nearby area that that had died (or been buried). Geins mothers vulva was found within the box and was painted silver.

He wanted to become a woman - per wiki "The closest he would get to changing his sex was dressing up in his full woman bodysuit. This bodysuit was made entirely of human skin. It completely covered his body and included a mask and breasts."

I accidently saw some of the photos before and seriously they were just gross.

Claudette said:

I don't know if he lacked confidence or was afraid of the outside world but I can't imagine someone that rarely leaves home drive 112 miles. Totally could be wrong though.

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Yeah, I agree completely.

His mother moved them to that farmhouse with the huge amount of land in order to keep him away from other people, she didnt allow them to ever leave the farm other than going to school, and would punish him harshly anytime he dared to go away from the farm. He was very uneasy just leaving to babysit or to go to the store, it seems unlikely he would go so far.

He passed a lie detector test and also had alibis for the day she went missing - he was also a handyman for some neighbors.

punklove said:

Yeah, I agree completely.

His mother moved them to that farmhouse with the huge amount of land in order to keep him away from other people, she didnt allow them to ever leave the farm other than going to school, and would punish him harshly anytime he dared to go away from the farm. He was very uneasy just leaving to babysit or to go to the store, it seems unlikely he would go so far.

He passed a lie detector test and also had alibis for the day she went missing - he was also a handyman for some neighbors.

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I think I'm off the fence on this one now, seems really unlikely it was him or that he was even there.

Also, I think I'll pass on the photos heh....and that's messed up the neighbor helped him dig. Probably wasn't the greatest guy and just thought it was a quick way to make cash - probably wouldn't have had anything to do with it if he knew what was actually happening. Painting things silver...that's a big w.t.f. right there.

I just have a gut feeling it wasn't Gein. From what
I've read over the years, what we have discussed here, and just a feeling.

I also feel if he had did it, he would have admitted it. He admitted to other murders, including his own brother. Once Gein was caught, he wasn't shy about talking about his crimes.

Just as I satisfy myself that it wasn't Gein I find myself reading something that makes me wonder again.
I do find it odd that Gus helped him dig and it seems two people were with Evelyn. It would be interesting to see if any obituaries included burials near where Evelyn was babysitting. Also I wonder what car Gus had.