Which is strongest RDI evidence?

Originally Posted by ATasteOfHoney
Does anyone know if detectives/interviewers had ever asked PR why she would make the 911 call without ever mentioning the fact that the "writers" of the ransom note *specified* not to alert LE (or risk losing your little girl's life)?

Why would PR choose to ignore those warnings and just make the call without indicating caution to LE?

Was PR asked about this point specifically?

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Mrs G Norris said:

Oh exactly right? When the police arrived did they just park right out the front? IF and I mean IF the note was genuine wouldn't that have been the most important thing on everyone's mind .. to keep the action at the house LOW KEY?

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Good, good points, Honey and Mrs Norris.

It would have taken mere seconds for PR to tell 911/LE to come in unmarked cars, no lights & sirens, & to park around the corner and come in through the back door since they were "being watched" by the kidnappers and under the threat of death to her daughter. I know she was in a panic -- or feigning that, at least -- but she could have quickly told them that. No maka de sense, sez moi...

I actually think reading the note right away is odd. It's early, dark, just getting up, messy house and kids,etc. I'd have picked it up, complained that it's dangerous to leave on stairs, and sat it on a table without even reading until noticing a missing child. No real kidnapper would leave it on stairs, imo.

txsvicki said:

I actually think reading the note right away is odd. It's early, dark, just getting up, messy house and kids,etc. I'd have picked it up, complained that it's dangerous to leave on stairs, and sat it on a table without even reading until noticing a missing child. No real kidnapper would leave it on stairs, imo.

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Hmmmm, txsvicki -- I never thought about her reading the note when she did, but now that you said what you did, above, I totally agree. I would have stepped on it, picked it up, and prolly said a bad word, and put it on the kitchen counter. I am a real crab first thing in the morning before I've had my coffee. The dayam thing was in my way. Fageddaboutit. I wouldn't have given it a 2nd thought. I had lotsa other things to do, and so on, and so on, and so on.

You've made a great point with your piece of evidence, txsvicki -- and I do regard what you've said as evidence of guilt. Good post!

txsvicki said:

I actually think reading the note right away is odd. It's early, dark, just getting up, messy house and kids,etc. I'd have picked it up, complained that it's dangerous to leave on stairs, and sat it on a table without even reading until noticing a missing child. No real kidnapper would leave it on stairs, imo.

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Very good point, txsvicki!

I think if a kidnapper wanted to ensure that his/her ransom note was read and followed precisely, he/she would leave it in the most conspicuous spot and as close to eye-level as possible.

That obviously is NOT on the steps of a rear staircase.

Maybe a better spot for the ransom note might've been to tape it to the inside (interior side) of the front door, or on the refrigerator door handles, or hanging from the kitchen lighting fixture? Obviously, the tidiness of the house would factor in as to where the ransom note could be left for it to be found.

In this case, a kidnapper would have to make the location very obvious since PR was not tidy. Clearly, leaving an important note on the back steps is not realistic or smart for the kidnapper. One could easily kick it away (or it could get blown into a corner via normal air/stepping) or one might step on it (especially if wearing fancy-heeled slippers) and ruin the important instructions.

This ransom note location on the steps of the rear stairway doesn't make sense.

moo

I would think the most logical place for the RN to be left by a kidnapper is the place where he got the child- her bed.

The ransom note.

1. Several experts believe it was written by her, and no expert could rule her out as the author. If you look at examples of her writing prior to the 26th, you can clearly see the similarities to the ransom note. [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121568"]The ransom note & Patsy Ramsey, letter by letter. - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


2. Patsy had an affinity for acronymns...she used them often in her writing. The ransom note concluded with the S.B.T.C. acronym.

3. Patsy had a prior history of using the phrase "and hence". We see that phrase in the ransom note.

4. The ransom note was written on Patsy's personal writing pad. And that pad also contained the beginning of a practice ransom note.

5. The ransom note was written with a pen from inside the house. The FBI ink analysis traced the ink to a specific pen in the house, which was located in a cup holder by the phone in the butler's pantry. (Tidy kidnapper, huh?)

6. Patsy's fingerprints were found on the pad itself, but not on the ransom note...despite the fact that both she and John have stated at different times that she handed John the note. Even more curious is the fact that John's fingerprints weren't on the note, even though he claims that Patsy handed him the note, and he laid it out on the floor to read. I believe John never handled that note, and Patsy wore gloves.

7. After the murder, Patsy altered her handwriting...in one example, even writing over a printed "a" that was identical to the "a" of the ransom note, and changing it to a cursive "a", which she continued to use for the remainder of that letter.

(I could go on and on, but I'm sure you guys get my point.)

If Patsy wrote the ransom note, and I believe there is OVERWHELMING evidence that she did, then there was no intruder and no kidnapping. That leaves only 3 people in the house that night, Patsy Ramsey, John Ramsey, and Burke Ramsey.

RDI.

Excellent points, M'Kat -- It's just hard to get around the arguments you made. You've tied a tight noose around her -- it makes total sense, and always has to me. If I could find a weak or "either way" challenge with your items above, I would bring it up, but I just don't see one. It is the Ramseys, the Ramseys, the Ramseys; no doubt in my mind. I didn't know that she had altered her handwriting -- I would have, too.

(snipped)

Mountain_Kat said:

7. After the murder, Patsy altered her handwriting...in one example, even writing over a printed "a" that was identical to the "a" of the ransom note, and changing it to a cursive "a", which she continued to use for the remainder of that letter.

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All good points, M_K. I'll add a #8 to your list that I had forgotten about until recently while looking for something else: The Friday folder. After she knew police were looking at anything she wrote for evidence, not only did Patsy alter what she had to write -- she tried to avoid writing as well. From BPD/PR Interview, August 28, 2000:Also, in addition to the link you provided, Cherokee did an excellent analysis at FFJ here:

[ame="http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6404"]Analysis of the Linguistics and Handwriting in the Ramsey Ransom Note - Forums For Justice[/ame]

FreeSafety36 said:

I would think the most logical place for the RN to be left by a kidnapper is the place where he got the child- her bed.

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Very logical thought process, FreeSafety36. And if JBR was taken out of her bed by a kidnapper/IDI then leaving the RN on her bed would be almost a *subconcious* thing to do! It's a no-brainer!

Obviously, that didn't happen which just adds more to the RDI.

moo

Also makes you wonder how an intruder would know that Patsy would use the back staircase that morning….

Does anyone here know what the LHP alibi was? I don't recall reading it anywhere.

cherisa said:

Does anyone here know what the LHP alibi was? I don't recall reading it anywhere.

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LHP slept alone, in an upstairs bedroom & MP slept (alone) on the couch.

Mama2JML said:

LHP slept alone, in an upstairs bedroom & MP slept (alone) on the couch.

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So how can LE say that their alibis checked out then?

Ok and another thing that has always bothered me is this: In all of the interviews with LE and PR, not once did I see her do an emotional motherly self-berating guilty/remorsefulness that I would expect.
I would have expected to hear PR rant on about "Why didn't they pick me over her, then my baby daughter would still be alive?" or how about "How could I not have awaken when my daughter was being tortured?" or how about "How did I not sense or hear someone in my own home?"

If a mother isn't guilty of committing murder, she would naturally be vocal of her remorsefulness and what she should've/could've done better to protect her precious daughter. We would be hearing some things like that but with PR we don't.

Patsy was also telling a detective that they were having a new home extensively remodelled. That means lots of different workers coming and going. Anyone who'd had a child murdered by an intruder would be permanently paranoid about strangers around the home. Imo, the woman had more issues about being accused than the actual death. That is why I can't decide if PDI and subtly blamed B, or BDI.

cherisa said:

So how can LE say that their alibis checked out then?

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I assume LHP (and Ariana?) corroborated MP's alibi & vice versa. I wouldn't think this, alone, satisfied investigators.

TroyinTX said:

Also makes you wonder how an intruder would know that Patsy would use the back staircase that morning….

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IDI perspectives:
Maybe he got lucky? Or, maybe he knew the Ramseys? Or, possibly he had watched/stalked his prey & knew their habits? I lean toward C.

B and C both work for me.

Mama2JML said:

IDI perspectives:
Maybe he got lucky? Or, maybe he knew the Ramseys? Or, possibly he had watched/stalked his prey & knew their habits? I lean toward C.

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As BDI myself, I try my best to sincerely and honestly evaluate any and every scenario posed. From these 3 IDI options, I would think A would be most likely, pure dumb luck.

If it were someone who knew the R's, we'd have to say they wanted to inflict pain and strife on the family. I can't envision a scenario where someone wanting to hurt the R's would write a ransom note, take their daughter to the basement, sexually assault her, clean her up, strangle her and then leave without her body. Had her body been removed from the house and/or mutilated or never found, I would be much more inclined to agree with this theory. If it were someone close to the family, they would know that the R's were going to Michigan the next morning, and would likely consider they may be up late packing, or may have to go to the basement for something they needed to pack.

If it were someone who'd been stalking the family, that would more than likely point to an obsessive pedophile, IMO. In the scenario that it was an intruding pedophile, I have trouble swallowing the idea that they would be willing to take the risk of doing their deed inside the home. Once they had JB in their possession, it would be much easier and extremely less risky to simply slip outside with her and take her to another location to molest her. If they had planned ahead enough to write out a 3 page ransom note, surely to goodness they'd have thought ahead enough to decide what they were going to do with her once they nabbed her. In the event she did something, like scream, that caught her attacker by surprise and caused him to deliver the head blow, that would be all the more reason to get her out of the house as quickly as possible.

JB being molested and her dead body left inside the home says to me that her killer was someone who had no fear at all of being caught in the home, with JonBenet, in the dark, in the middle of the night....and to me that rules out everyone except PR, JR, BR and JAR.

TroyinTX said:

Also makes you wonder how an intruder would know that Patsy would use the back staircase that morning….

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Imo, there is no reason to expect that the "intruder" knew that PR would use the back staircase that morning.
PR claimed to have found the note. Maybe that's true and maybe it's not.
PR claimed it was found on the back stairs. Maybe that's true and maybe it's not.
Imo, to believe that there is something to be learned by speculating how the intruder knew PR would use the back stairs is operating under the false assumption that the "intruder" wished PR to find the note. I think the truth is that the note could be left in any number of places where it would be found quickly upon the realization that JBR was gone. On the telephone, JBR's bed, or the floor near her room. There is no reason to assume that PR was intended to find it as the story goes. The note was not addressed to PR, it was addressed to JR.