2008.09.22 Tim Miller Coming Back & Leonard Padilla Talks RE: Cindy/Casey Fight!

distracted said:

Yes, that's definitely one possibility.

Her words could have meant, "Of course you know what my involvement is because I told you."

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:clap:

respectfully snipped for space

Very true! & the other part that has always bothered me is the almost 'gentle' way [for lack of a better word] that LA tells kc "but, you know, the *truth* don't hurt......"

THAT sticks out to me also.... a lot.... [imo] :waitasec:

HopeAgainstHope said:

:clap:

Totally agree Leila. There's no way Mrs. Anthony was faking that myspace post or the 911 call. What happened most likely was that Casey and Cindy had a huge fight over the stolen money on father's day, it got physical, and Casey left in a huff with Caylee, during which short time period she killed her in a rage and hid the body somewhere, then went to Tony's. The flurry of phone calls IMO were just Casey either freaking out after the fact, trying to make up a story for her parents or see if they were home to go there to hide/dispose of the body, and when the parents didn't answer the calls (still POed at her) she just got really angry and decided to lie about Caylee and go on living her life ignoring what had happened. Horrible, and very sad, but I think that's looking to be the most likely scenario.

CA threatened Casey with reporting the car stolen and the money and told the police this simple because she was trying to manipulate her daughter with anything she had power over. It didn't dawn on her that Caylee was gone until that heartbreaking 911 call...and I believe very shortly after Casey's first night in jail, George Cindy and Lee realized somehow that Casey killed Caylee. CA must have felt incredible, overwhelming guilt and from then on she and George lied to cover the whole thing up.

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This is also what I think happened- I do NOT think Caylee's death was accidental. Casey did it as revenge against Cindy and because Caylee was interfering with her party lifestyle and relationship with Tony. I just am not sure she killed her the night of the fight, she may have planned it while staying at Tony's, then snuck back and killed her the next day after George left, then the flurry of calls began when she realized she shouldn't have done it.

shadow of my mind said:

I wonder what the mental ramifacations were to Casey's mind if her mother had attacked her like that. Would an action like that have caused Casey to 'go over the edge'. If there had never been any type of physical confrontation prior to that night, just the usual yelling and stuff could it cause a Casey to take out her anger of her mother on her daughter. [In Casey's mind Caylee was the casue]
Maybe one of our fellow WS's who has a background in mental health could add to how a fight like that would effect a person.

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Casey was probably PO'd that her mother would question her about taking money she felt herself entitled to...:razz:

kwmred said:

http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/

Above is the link to the 9/22 Dana Pretzer radio broadcast. Tricia has given me permission to start this thread. Among Dana's guests tonight were Tim Miller and Leonard Padilla. Tim spoke about a conversation he had with Cindy last night and about coming back to Orlando (also quite a bit about Aruba). Leonard dropped another bombshell as NG would say and claims that Cindy literally had her hands on Casey's throat during the Father's Day argument.

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And what knucklehead made her let go?

Perception is surely subjective. My subjective perception is that Cindy absolutely was using the car "theft" to pressure Casey to tell her where Caylee was. I do not get any vibe at all that Cindy harmed Caylee, none. That's just me.

As for the "I don't know what your involvement is" convo, I take that as possibly being Cindy telegraphing to Casey to remember they are being recorded and Casey's sarcastic mocking reply to be disgust because she has told Cindy what happened. By that I mean I am thinking maybe of a scenario where after the genuinely panicked 911 calls, Casey tells Cindy that the fight and the "choking" upset her so much that she took Caylee away and some sort of "accident" happened. Knowing Casey's M.O. she would convince Cindy it was her fault, that her anger made Casey kill Caylee. This could account for Cindy's abrupt turn around to the silly defensive statements about Casey. In her immediate initial emotional state she could have bought that she was responsible and tried to help Casey. Once in, she feels she can't drop the act now.

Alternately, she may have tried to convince Cindy that she left intending to kill herself and Caylee, (a Susan Smith baloney excuse), maybe with chloroform but it only worked on Caylee, not on her. Again, she would convince Cindy that it was her fault, that had driven her daughter to such drastic measures. You have to remember how good Casey apparently is at manipulating people especially her parents.

In fact, maybe Casey did try something like that. Remember Mark Hacking, who after his years-long elaborate fantasy of going to school etc, kills his wife after he has played that fantasy out to absolute very last second. I believe they had actually packed up their belongings for a move to his new "job." Casey does the same thing, plays out her lying fantasies to the very last second, i.e. taking LE all the way inside Universal.

That night of the 15th, if the details we have are correct, that is when Casey's years-long elaborate fantasy of working etc. came to a crashing end when she is caught stealing thousands of dollars. Maybe she did intend to kill herself, but like Susan Smith and Mark Hacking instead just killed an innocent trapped in the web and then toddled off to party on.

Just thinking, that's all.

Just a theory here. If I can't post it, can someone let me know and I'll delete it?

Suppose the fight between CA and KC got physical and one of them fell on Caylee and she got hurt. Then KC scooped her up and left the house and CA and GA didn't know if she was okay or not. Then KC did do something to Caylee and made it appear to CA that CA was responsible and that KC was covering for CA. She could have told her that Caylee was severely injured and she gave her to someone so CA could not get at her. Then claimed that Caylee died and whoever KC gave her to disposed of the body and KC doesn't know where the person put her.

The person I think who knows more than anyone is Cindy's therapist.
Once those records are subpoena'd, more will be revealed.

I think Cindy was getting advice from the therapist, telling her - Cindy - to take actions that she normally wouldn't have done.... i.e. make Casey responsible for stealing, lying, neglecting her child. Kick her out of the house. Press charges for stealing Cindy's parent's money. Obtain custody of Caylee.

When Cindy told KC what her plans were, KC went berserk and threatened to take Caylee and never let Cindy see her granddaughter again.

Anger--->Threats---> Verbal abuse --->Physical Altercation

Cindy may have continued to see the therapist after Caylee and Casey left. From her post at her Myspace July 3rd, Cindy was obviously very distraught. The therapist is prolly the one that first called Casey a sociopath and then Cindy repeated it to Casey's friend(s).

The therapist prolly advised Cindy to call 911 and have Casey arrested and when she did, felt so uncomfortable and guilty for doing so, as she had never made Casey be responsible for her actions in the past. (Remember what the teacher said about Cindy showing up at school, etc.)

Cindy then immediately went back to her own way of thinking and doing things, re Casey's behavior, lies, threats, etc..... without the therapist's help/advice. Thus the drastic change in her demeaner immediately after the 3rd 911 call.

Since there are confidentiality laws, the therapist can not give any info re what he/she knows about the case... unless the records are subpoened.

One of my theories is that Casey took Caylee and left the house. In a state of rage/passion, Casey harmed-killed Caylee in some way, panicked, and then tried to cover it up... staging a drowning.

My other theory is that Casey wasn't going to let Caylee burden her lifestyle and her relationship w/ TonE.... and when there was noone with whom to leave Caylee, she left her in the trunk where she suffocated. I think she panicked with this theory also and tried to cover-up.

I don't think she purposely left the pizza in the trunk to cover the odor.
Raw meat or milk would've done a better job.

I think the pizza was just a leftover meal of Caylee's.

SeriouslySearching said:

She called because of the "stolen car" and the money...not Caylee. She was enraged with Casey even more...but we truly don't know what was behind it all. I don't think she meant to say that about the decomp smell. It slipped.

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Makes sense. You're granddaughter has been missing a month and you call to have your daughter arrested for stealing a car you lent her? And then, Oh btw, my granddaughter's missing? Obviously she smelled the car before she made that call. Something is so wrong here.

Mrs. Peel said:

Aaagh. Here I go again. Who thinks, let's see: a little girl is missing, there is a bad smell in the car, let's do smelly laundry from said car, and update/create myspace pages with perfectly organized entries and sentences. La-la-la-la.

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updating the my space pages was in the script silly!

I read pages 1-3, and then lost my Internet for a while, can anybody tell me when (like what day exactly) Tim said they would be back?

SeriouslySearching said:

I think the chloroform was used to try to clean the car (the cleaning fluid that GA mentioned) and when that didn't work...it was left to be stolen at Amscot. Instead it was towed! Hence the reason it was not picked up for 15 days...it was hoped the smell would dissipate. Didn't happen. GA was not surprised by the smell in the car that day.

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Hi SS, The cleaning fluid was actually an empty bottle of Arm and hammer laundry detergent. Cleaning fluid sounds cooler and creates more drama so Nancy Grace used that term about 50 times after the story broke. All who watch Nancy think it was some kind of specialty cleaning fluid instead of laundry detergent.

SoCalSleuth said:

Makes sense. You're granddaughter has been missing a month and you call to have your daughter arrested for stealing a car you lent her? And then, Oh btw, my granddaughter's missing? Obviously she smelled the car before she made that call. Something is so wrong here.

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I saw the interview tape a few days ago where Cindy said (awkwardly) that she is a nurse and familiar with the smell of decomp. George knew at the impound lot.

SeriouslySearching said:

You can't forget getting on their myspaces, too. Pretty rational, if ya ask me.

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Yes, and that is exactly what I am going to do if Heaven forbid one of my Grandchildren goes missing. I am going to go and get on my space while waiting for the police to arrive. NOT.........

tekilla said:

Yes, and that is exactly what I am going to do if Heaven forbid one of my Grandchildren goes missing. I am going to go and get on my space while waiting for the police to arrive. NOT.........

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It seemed bizarre to me when the news first broke that the first thing the family did was jump on Myspace to search for this baby. I would have collected all Casey's friends names and paid a personal visit. But I also, upon learning of the string of lies to deputies, had the deputies give me some alone time with her before her arrest. I would have known within minutes where my grandchild/neice was. They still have that option now. But the Myspace thing set off alarms for me immediately.

peace9274 said:

The person I think who knows more than anyone is Cindy's therapist.
Once those records are subpoena'd, more will be revealed.

I think Cindy was getting advice from the therapist, telling her - Cindy - to take actions that she normally wouldn't have done.... i.e. make Casey responsible for stealing, lying, neglecting her child. Kick her out of the house. Press charges for stealing Cindy's parent's money. Obtain custody of Caylee.

When Cindy told KC what her plans were, KC went berserk and threatened to take Caylee and never let Cindy see her granddaughter again.

Anger--->Threats---> Verbal abuse --->Physical Altercation

Cindy may have continued to see the therapist after Caylee and Casey left. From her post at her Myspace July 3rd, Cindy was obviously very distraught. The therapist is prolly the one that first called Casey a sociopath and then Cindy repeated it to Casey's friend(s).

The therapist prolly advised Cindy to call 911 and have Casey arrested and when she did, felt so uncomfortable and guilty for doing so, as she had never made Casey be responsible for her actions in the past. (Remember what the teacher said about Cindy showing up at school, etc.)

Cindy then immediately went back to her own way of thinking and doing things, re Casey's behavior, lies, threats, etc..... without the therapist's help/advice. Thus the drastic change in her demeaner immediately after the 3rd 911 call.

Since there are confidentiality laws, the therapist can not give any info re what he/she knows about the case... unless the records are subpoened.

Click to expand...

ITA, and I think one of the reasons that Cindy defends Casey so aggressively is her own GUILT that she feels responsible (indirectly) for the baby's death. I think she quit her therapist completely and went back to her previous parenting method because of this..Cindy may even blame her therapist. (jmo)

SeriouslySearching said:

Not sure of the date, but Clint said on Greta that when he came back the afternoon of June 15th that Casey was with Tony at the apartment and he thought she stayed the night...altho he did not see her the next morning.

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I honestly think that Casey and Cindy (and Cindy's mother) got into the battle royale after they got back from visiting granddad. Casey bolted from the house but left Caylee, because she didn't want to deal with her daughter - and I'm willing to bet Caylee wanted to be with her "mom" Cindy. So she storms out and chills with Lazzaro (I'm assuming that's who we're calling TonE). In the morning, George calls Casey on cell to have her come pick up Caylee before he leaves work, which she does around 12:30pm.

Of course , this is all based on the statements of the Anthony family and we all know how reliable that is.. :boohoo:

Bobby62 said:

It seemed bizarre to me when the news first broke that the first thing the family did was jump on Myspace to search for this baby. I would have collected all Casey's friends names and paid a personal visit. But I also, upon learning of the string of lies to deputies, had the deputies give me some alone time with her before her arrest. I would have known within minutes where my grandchild/neice was. They still have that option now. But the Myspace thing set off alarms for me immediately.

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Maybe it is because I grew up without computers, internet and Myspace. But, I just don't understand going to Myspace first. Your Granddaughter is missing try to find her not go play on the computer. And apparently they are still searching the internet for this little girl and not searching in the real world. Seriously how do they really think they can find this Baby by not ever leaving the house?

zadari said:

nope sorry cindy wasnt lying or making up that call no way ,.. she was distressed you could hear it in her voice . i agree with this post .. i dont feel the anthonys have any idea what happened to thier granddaughter . and i dont think they think she is dead i have a feeling they really dont feel she is dead . they are going to have to have a body in front of them before they beleive it . some people are that way . you cant have closure without a body for some people ..

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I was just saying this to my mother the other day. When I was pregnant last I was REALLY sick. I lost over 30 lbs and went into ketosis and had a hard time staying awake, so when it was nap time, I slept really hard. One afternoon I had put my oldest down and went and took a nap on the couch. When I woke up and went to his crib he was not there! I looked all over and could not find him. At one point I remember busting out the front door and screaming his name and running up and down the block in a panic. When I heard Cindy's phone call the first time...and really every time after that, it takes me back to that day, that moment I gave up on the inside of the house and went out the door in true panic.

I assumed that I slept so hard he had either escaped or someone came in the house and took him. I ran back into the house to call 911-- I know, I know, Novel concept...but even as a WSer, I just wouldn't have felt comfortable holding my own investigation, sorry guys! He had climbed onto the bottom shelf of the changing table and pulled the blankets I was storing there back in on himself and fell asleep. I found him while I was looking for the phone.

I will never forget that panic and just thinking about it now makes my chest tight. I don't know if CA had any involvement after the fact and I kind of think that she is just in serious denial and losing her mind, literally. But I was convinced with the 911 call that she wasn't involved initially. I can't listen to it because it literally brings tears to my eyes still and takes me back to that day in an instant.

zadari said:

nope sorry cindy wasnt lying or making up that call no way ,.. she was distressed you could hear it in her voice . i agree with this post .. i dont feel the anthonys have any idea what happened to thier granddaughter . and i dont think they think she is dead i have a feeling they really dont feel she is dead . they are going to have to have a body in front of them before they beleive it . some people are that way . you cant have closure without a body for some people ..

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ITA. If they had been involved in it, Cindy would not have said what she did on that last 911 call. No way is someone going to volunteer that it smelled like a dead body in the car, if they were involved in getting rid of the body. I don't believe they knew what happened at that point, and they still might not know exactly... just totally in denial. Who could blame them? Even RG won't believe Caylee is dead until he has proof, and he is not the g/parent!
We lost my oldest stepson 15 years ago, when he was barely 16. His mom did not believe it was him in the casket. He had died of asphysiation and his face was swollen... it didn't really look like him. It took a while for her to realize it was him... I felt so bad for her, she couldn't deal with it.