Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - #4

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This photo was listed on a Poster put out by the LAPD, hoping to locate some of the women that were possible victims of William L. Bradford....This model looks an awful lot like this Jane Doe.... I believe she has on a wig, too!Bradford also killed men that he photographed or had a relationship with so..... Could it be that they were both victims of his?
Just a thought......(I do not see any moles in this photo either)

(PS. I still think Antoinette should be ruled out....)


Check it out...
 

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Madea, got a link? She does look like Jane Doe!

Another absurdity of this case....Jane Doe may have had a large suitcase. Now either she did or she didn't. If she did, it could've held clues. Anyone ever get Sumter LE to own up to Jane Doe having a suitcase?

I don't know if it's too late, but we could try to find out where Stride Rite sold their women's shoes back in 1975 and 76. It was a new program so perhaps they didn't have so many stores catering to adults yet. Unfortunately Stride Rite sold out, and now they are a subsidiary of another company. Can't think of the name off-hand.

I'm having some problems believing this couple was from Canada. Back then most of our clothing was still made in the USA IIRC. He was wearing Levi jeans, well worn, a shirt from a USA race, an American made watch and ring, and she was wearing American made shoes and rings. If from another country, surely they would've been wearing something that was made in that country or something at least not made in the USA.

One of the earliest articles describes them as looking like the all American boy and girl, calls them teens. That earliest sketch appears to be of teens rather than adults.

Mysterylover is a teacher per one of her posts here, and she said after looking at students all day she thought this couple was younger than stated. I think she's right. I think they're younger. Sketches depend on the ability of the artist doing them to portray correct age grouping. I think the police sketch is off. They made these kids both look about age 30.

If Jock Doe was from a nice family in Canada, even if they did initially disown him, I think they would have begun to look for him at some point. It would be the normal thing, especially for his mother. Mothers don't write off their kids permanently, no matter what they've done. They may not approve, but they still love their children. At least, the majority do!

I don't think we can get hung up on Canada nor get hung up on Jock's jewelry belonging to him. He could've been a thief, and found some jewelry that fit him, that he liked. Illegal activities could've provided the means to afford the dental reconstruction. that could fit with a wad of bills--just sayin.

One of Jane's rings originally had a red stone, blue stone, and white stone, together a symbol of the US flag. I don't think someone from another country would've been so moved to purchase a ring symbolizing the US bicentennial unless 1. she was from the USA or 2. she was from a poorer country where the citizens may have idealized the USA, and she hoped to get a permanent visa.

Look at the 2nd. and 6th. photos of Jock, both morgue or funeral home photos. Notice his right eye, and the size difference from the left eye.

Can we conclude anything by this? Is this accurate or is it induced by funeral home botching? Perhaps we should be looking for a guy whose right eye takes up a smaller portion of his face than his left eye. Whadda ya think?

I asked this before, but didn't get a response, and I do think it's something for strong consideration.
 

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Madea, got a link? She does look like Jane Doe!

Another absurdity of this case....Jane Doe may have had a large suitcase. Now either she did or she didn't. If she did, it could've held clues. Anyone ever get Sumter LE to own up to Jane Doe having a suitcase?

I don't know if it's too late, but we could try to find out where Stride Rite sold their women's shoes back in 1975 and 76. It was a new program so perhaps they didn't have so many stores catering to adults yet. Unfortunately Stride Rite sold out, and now they are a subsidiary of another company. Can't think of the name off-hand.

I'm having some problems believing this couple was from Canada. Back then most of our clothing was still made in the USA IIRC. He was wearing Levi jeans, well worn, a shirt from a USA race, an American made watch and ring, and she was wearing American made shoes and rings. If from another country, surely they would've been wearing something that was made in that country or something at least not made in the USA.

One of the earliest articles describes them as looking like the all American boy and girl, calls them teens. That earliest sketch appears to be of teens rather than adults.

Mysterylover is a teacher per one of her posts here, and she said after looking at students all day she thought this couple was younger than stated. I think she's right. I think they're younger. Sketches depend on the ability of the artist doing them to portray correct age grouping. I think the police sketch is off. They made these kids both look about age 30.

If Jock Doe was from a nice family in Canada, even if they did initially disown him, I think they would have begun to look for him at some point. It would be the normal thing, especially for his mother. Mothers don't write off their kids permanently, no matter what they've done. They may not approve, but they still love their children. At least, the majority do!

I don't think we can get hung up on Canada nor get hung up on Jock's jewelry belonging to him. He could've been a thief, and found some jewelry that fit him, that he liked. Illegal activities could've provided the means to afford the dental reconstruction. that could fit with a wad of bills--just sayin.

One of Jane's rings originally had a red stone, blue stone, and white stone, together a symbol of the US flag. I don't think someone from another country would've been so moved to purchase a ring symbolizing the US bicentennial unless 1. she was from the USA or 2. she was from a poorer country where the citizens may have idealized the USA, and she hoped to get a permanent visa.

Look at the 2nd. and 6th. photos of Jock, both morgue or funeral home photos. Notice his right eye, and the size difference from the left eye.

Can we conclude anything by this? Is this accurate or is it induced by funeral home botching? Perhaps we should be looking for a guy whose right eye takes up a smaller portion of his face than his left eye. Whadda ya think?

I asked this before, but didn't get a response, and I do think it's something for strong consideration.

Here's the link where I found the photo: http://crime.about.com/od/missing/ig/50missingwomen/index.03.htm

On the "Jock" Doe eye question, the right eye is possibly where the bullet lodged or expanded there, it's possible that it could've been stretched to remove the bullet... not sure, JMO. Tomorrow, I'll ask my funeral home friend if that could be the case....
Oh and it was Los Angeles County Sheriff's dept. that put out this poster, some of the ladies on the poster have been indentified, one was the Leppert girl, BTW, they removed that photo!
 
Madea,

I think you should follow up on #41 out of LA county. She looks enough like most of the photos/sketches of Jane Doe to warrant matching efforts, moles or no moles!

I'd at least find out when #41 went missing.
 
This photo was listed on a Poster put out by the LAPD, hoping to locate some of the women that were possible victims of William L. Bradford....This model looks an awful lot like this Jane Doe.... I believe she has on a wig, too!
Bradford also killed men that he photographed or had a relationship with so.....
Could it be that they were both victims of his?
Just a thought......(I do not see any moles in this photo either)

(PS. I still think Antoinette should be ruled out....)

Check it out...

Hi Justthinkin, I agree!

MadeaBec, I agree, she seems to be wearing a wig in the photo..
I always look at the thickness of the eye brows and their shape, nose shape and fullness of the lips... These do match our Jane Doe!....:Banane37:
 
.......something t3ells me, these two may have been from Canada, but not as citizens, but as guests etc....they may have flown into Canada and came to the US, to travel the country, and celebrate the bicentennial celebrations throughout the country.........it saddens me to think they came to this country, to fulfill a dream to visit here, especially the 200 birthday of America, and there travels here got them murdered, they were friendly people, and trusted most, someone i feel took advantage of there kindness, and it cause there death..........there statement where from Canada.........makes me think more that was there original disination, from there real homeland......in 76 to enter USA, perhaps it was easier for them to fly to canada first, then travel down and into america.....hence there statemnet, where from canada...........perhaps we should concentrate south of the border, and neighboring countries such as columbia etc, for looking at there pictures, i sense nothing indication they are Canadian residents........to see if any missing persons reports had been reported in 76 77 time period........back then, in 76 a foriengner missing here, there could have been a language barriour in finding whom they are......unlike today, options were limited at that time...........ALL JUST MOO.....and trying to offer a different perspective on the situation.

................I'm going to look around in Venezuela/Columbia areas for missing persons from that time............though Spanish may be a problem here.........at the time, they may have come from a state controlled environment......where ones freedom, perhaps was not as open, as it is today........he looks like he could had been some freedom fighter, for social change and justice etc..........they may have come from what would have been known as a closed society perhaps.......considered traitor/traitors perhaps...........was not uncommon for persons to be executed , such as the Israel athletes during the Olympics in 72 i believe.........

...forgot to add...ALL JUST MOO......nothing factual or certain.
 
I think #41 has been identified a while back. Not sure who she was identified as, but here is a link.

http://www.news4jax.com/download/2006/0824/9730253.pdf

Thanks for the link! I think I'll fire off an email to these Detectives and see if I can find out who the #41 woman is/was and if she is alive and well, or if family identified her by the photo..... She is really a close match, if she is still alive SC Jane could be her sister.......Ya never know!



I will be back


Jeremiah 29:11-14
 
Can someone enlarge the 1st photo of Jock's face, as he lay on the ground? post #342... There seems to be a round black 'dot' on his ear lobe, at the place he would be wearing an earring...if by chance it's a diamond ear ring, its a big one...anyone see what I'm talking about?..:idea:
 
Here's the link where I found the photo: http://crime.about.com/od/missing/ig/50missingwomen/index.03.htm

On the "Jock" Doe eye question, the right eye is possibly where the bullet lodged or expanded there, it's possible that it could've been stretched to remove the bullet... not sure, JMO. Tomorrow, I'll ask my funeral home friend if that could be the case....
Oh and it was Los Angeles County Sheriff's dept. that put out this poster, some of the ladies on the poster have been indentified, one was the Leppert girl, BTW, they removed that photo!


Madea, please look again. His right eye is smaller than the left. His left eye appears to be of normal size, but the right eye doesn't match the left, it's smaller, narrower.

I will be anxious to hear what you find out about #41 from LAPD. See if she was matched through dna.
 
Can someone enlarge the 1st photo of Jock's face, as he lay on the ground? post #342... There seems to be a round black 'dot' on his ear lobe, at the place he would be wearing an earring...if by chance it's a diamond ear ring, its a big one...anyone see what I'm talking about?..:idea:

I did enlarge that photo, but it doesn't look like an earring. It's too large. Not sure what that is. It doesn't appear in other photos. I also checked the lousy crime scene photo, blew it up, and discovered something else. No gunshot to the neck. And yet the #1 close up from post #342 clearly shows a gunshot to the neck.
 
Here's is the e-mail that Mr. Taylor replied back to me;
The woman filling photo #41 on the bulletin is Teresa Bradford, one of Bradford’s ex-wives. She was interviewed several times during this investigation. Also, this case was inactivated last year following Bradford’s death.

Thank you
Sergeant Robert "Bobby" Taylor
LASD Homicide Bureau

Unsolved & ITMS Investigative Unit
5747 Rickenbacker Road
Commerce, Ca 90040
Home Office: (323) 890-5500 ext. 5523
ITMS Office: (323) 580-5519
ITMS Fax : (323) 415-3337
Fax: (323) 415-1540
e-mail: rltaylor@lasd.org

So that explains who that photo is and that she is still alive and well, so back to other missing persons photos.....



Jeremiah 29:11-14
 
While reading about all our missing children I ran across this interesting article.
Thought you would be interested in reading it and possibly ask the same question I have ask to myself, WHY isn't this test being done on 'our Jock & Jane'?? :frown:
QUOTE:
Study shows unidentified dead boy spent short life in northern Illinois

Authorities say they hope new scientific information may help them identify a young boy whose remains were buried earlier this year.

The unidentified little boy whose remains were found in 2005 inside a laundry bag dumped in a field on the outskirts of northwest Naperville spent most of his life in northern Illinois, authorities said Wednesday.

A study of oxygen isotopes in the boy's bones and teeth by a Canadian college professor who specializes in geochemistry determined the particular isotopes from the boy's skeleton matched samples taken from the tooth of a Naperville child.

The research further determined the boy's mother had lived in the south-central portion of Canada while pregnant with the boy -- likely Winnipeg, Sault Ste. Marie or the surrounding areas, said Henry P. Schwarcz, an emeritus professor at McMaster University in Hamilton, Ontario, who performed the study.

"Most of your body is made up of oxygen, and that gets into your bones and teeth, and therefore you have some records of where that oxygen comes from," Schwarcz said.

Over the course of 40 years, scientists have created a map of North America based on particular types of oxygen isotopes, Schwarcz said. While the map can't pinpoint exact locations, it can narrow things down.

Using one of the boy's primary molars, Schwarcz was able to determine that the child's mother had lived in a particular area of Canada or even possibly the Upper Peninsula of Michigan while pregnant. Because the tooth was formed in utero, it carries the mother's information.

An analysis of the boy's bone determined he had spent most, if not all, of his life in northern Illinois. Schwarcz said bones collect oxygen isotopes that act as geographic markers throughout a person's life.

More at link http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=85576[/quote]

quoting and bringing this further into the discussion.
 
^^

The officials in Sumter are aware that isotope testing is available and the former coroner expressed interest in it. Since there has been a change in the coroner's office recently, I cannot speculate on where the new people in charge stand on this issue though. Carrying out the tests also involves expense (Dr Schwarcz does not do this work for free). There is also the logistical difficulty of transporting human remains (which any human bone samples are considered, regardless of how small) across an international border in order for the tests to be conducted.
 
Okay, I've written to Prof. Schwarcz, asking if there's anyone in the US who does this, and how much it costs, and how long it takes.
 
rmf, do you know the name of the detective currently assigned to work this case?
 
Okay, I've written to Prof. Schwarcz, asking if there's anyone in the US who does this, and how much it costs, and how long it takes.

Here are some of the Universities that do Isotope Hair Analysis:
Department of Anthropology, Oregon State University, Corvallis, Oregon
238 Waldo Hall 97331 email address; anthropology@oregonstate.edu


Department of Anthropology, Texas A&M University, College Station, Texas
4352 TAMU 77844
Professor Vaughn Bryant's email Address is; vbryant@tamu.edu

If there is still hair, for Jock & Jane, this would probably be the quickest and least expensive, right? May not cost anything if it is done in a classroom setting.....IDK!


I'll check back.....



Jeremiah 29:11-14
 
Good work, Mystery & Madea! We need someone to call the SC state lab that has the bones & see if they also received hair samples for testing before contacting either OSU or TAMU.
 
Long time lurker on this case-great work being done here!!! I personally love the isotope analysis-we had a long time poster who brought the concept to my attention early in 2008 in some of the other UID cases. All of us instantly thought of Jock and Jane, as well as Boy in the Box and maybe even Benjaman Kyle. I look forward to reading any responses you get on this work being done for Jock and Jane. If you need warm bodies to make requests, please let me know!

Peace.
 
^^

The officials in Sumter are aware that isotope testing is available and the former coroner expressed interest in it. Since there has been a change in the coroner's office recently, I cannot speculate on where the new people in charge stand on this issue though.
Carrying out the tests also involves expense (Dr Schwarcz does not do this work for free).

There is also the logistical difficulty of transporting human remains (which any human bone samples are considered, regardless of how small) across an international border in order for the tests to be conducted.

rmf,
Yes, there has been a change in the coroners office BUT doesn't LE/ the investigator in this case have a 'say' in this testing ?
Why would the 'testing' request in a double murder case be left totally up to the coroner?

I can't believe the bone samples would have to be sent to another Country for tests?

What did the investigators find out about this test costs, last year, when another WS suggested the oxygen isotope test to be done?

It's hard to believe there isn't any labs in the U.S. that do the same oxygen isotope tests?

Of course it would take time and expense to get DNA/isotope results, but it could possibly send two lost kids home to their loved ones and possibly their parents/friends/sleuthers would offer to pay the Lab bill..

Seems solving the case would be the least expensive way to go after 30 years of keeping the case open .. what's your thoughts on this?.. :detective: .jmo
 
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