CANADA Canada - Toronto Crimes Discussion

If Williams had killed Gilmour (and Susan Tice) we would know about it by now, because there was DNA collected at the scene.

http://m.torontosun.com/2011/12/28/cold-case-arrest-provides-hope-to-slain-womans-family
"There are many unresolved murdered women in Toronto during that time -- including Lori Marilyn Pinkus and Cheryl Nelson in 1991, Patricia Ann Stewart in 1990, Kelly Mombouraquette in 1987, Lorelei Brose in 1985, Christine Prince in 1982, and Donna Stearne and Wendy Tedford in 1973.

All these cases remain unsolved and there is nothing to link any of them to Westergard.

“With every unsolved case we look for connections, “ said Ryan. “We always keep an open mind.”

OPP Commissioner Chris Lewis said his cold case squad also looks for matches for similar unsolved cases across Ontario.

As of now the cases of Gilmour, Tice and the others remain unsolved".

CrimeSolver said:

If Williams had killed Gilmour (and Susan Tice) we would know about it by now, because there was DNA collected at the scene.

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and because there is DNA evidence we may assume that the murderer has not been convicted of a crime warranting Penitentiary time thus far. It is quite astonishing that a criminal that perpetrated these two crimes has not entered the justice system in Canada at some point in the over 25 years since these murders occurred by keeping their nose clean.

was it june 2000 that DNA sample collection of convicts came into law or is that the date the RCMP only ramped up it's dna database ? Were convicts in prison and those previously convicted and out on the streets having served their time retroactively sampled (my guess no as it would probably conflict with a Charter Right) ?

some DNA info Canada specific from : http://canadaonline.about.com/cs/crime/a/dnadatabank.htm

DNA Profiles

Under the Canadian Criminal Code, judges can order those convicted of designated offences to provide samples for DNA analysis. Young offenders can be included in the DNA Data Bank. The Canadian National Defence Act also lets military judges make DNA Data Bank orders.

For purposes of the DNA Data Bank, offences are designated primary or secondary.

Primary designated offences are the most serious criminal offences - for example, murder and manslaughter, sexual offences and aggravated assault. A judge who convicts a person of a primary designated offence is required to make an order for the collection of a DNA sample from the offender, unless the offender can convince the court that the impact on his or her personal privacy and security outweighs the public interest. Internet luring of a child, child *advertiser censored* and criminal organization offences were added to the list of primary designated offences when legislation strengthening the DNA Data Bank was passed in 2005.

Secondary designated offences include less serious crimes like arson. For secondary designated offences, the Crown must apply for a DNA collection order and show the court that it is in the best interests of justice that it be granted.

When a new DNA profile is added to the DNA Data Bank, it is compared with profiles already there. If a match is found, the investigators are informed. Data comparisons and sharing information with foreign law enforcement agencies are permitted, as long as there is agreement that the information will be used to investigate or prosecute a criminal offence.

Privacy Protection of DNA Profiles

To protect the privacy of individuals, limits have been placed on the access and use of the DNA Data Bank and on communications about both profiles and the bodily substances used. The DNA Data Bank is used strictly for law enforcement purposes. All other uses, including medical research, are against the law.

Results of DNA Data Bank

By May 2006, the DNA Data Bank had nearly 100,000 entries in the Convicted Offender Index and over 28,000 DNA profiles in the Crime Scene Index. Since its inception, the DNA Data Bank has resulted in over 5,200 crime-scene-to-offender matches, and more than 750 crime-scene-to-crime-scene matches.

That's right. The Tice/Gilmour UnSub has otherwise stayed out of serious trouble, though, who knows, he may have past arrests for peeping or stealing underwear, "petty" crimes for which the law doesn't allow the retrieval of DNA. I think this exemption should be reconsidered in light of how many sexually motivated killers and serial killers started as peepers and underwear stealers.

I am wondering if the DNA retrieved from the T/G case could indicate the perps' ethnicity and hair colour? Maybe both women frequented the cafes or popular music spots in Yorkville and there- encountered the perp, who may have been a bar patron/worker, or with a travelling act as worker/fan?Maybe knowing some details like hair colour, might trigger a memory or connection for people.

Not quite Toronto, but may apply..
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2012/06/21/19905861.html
BRANTFORD, ONT. - The trail went cold more than 29 years ago.

It ended somewhere in a field near the former Buns Master Bakery, where police found Mary Hammond's footprints.

Now, police believe they have picked up the trail again and have been searching a home and collecting evidence this past week".

"

Could this guy be connected to Karen Caughlin case??
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/story/2012/06/25/mb-homicide-arrest.html


"Accused serial killer charged in deaths of 3 Winnipeg women

Shawn Cameron Lamb, originally from Sarnia, Ont., faces 3 counts of 2nd-degree murder"

dotr said:

Could this guy be connected to Karen Caughlin case??

Shawn Cameron Lamb, originally from Sarnia, Ont., faces 3 counts of 2nd-degree murder"

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Wouldn't Lamb have been 14 years old in 1974 ?

Police believe Caughlin's killer drove a metallic purple 1970-1971 Charger, Challenger, Duster, Demon or Swinger. The factory name for the paint was "Plum Crazy."

CrankyOldFart said:

Wouldn't Lamb have been 14 years old in 1974 ?

Police believe Caughlin's killer drove a metallic purple 1970-1971 Charger, Challenger, Duster, Demon or Swinger. The factory name for the paint was "Plum Crazy."

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I see what you mean, the perp I suggested is not a good one because he probably would have raped then killed his victim. Although plenty 14 year old hooligans have been known to start criminal career by stealing cars ...
Sounds like they have a great lead in this case, hope it is solved soon!
http://eedition.sarniathisweek.com/doc/Sarnia-This-Week/sarniathisweekvpmay2/2012050201/#0

http://www.lambtonshield.com/suspect-in-karen-coughlan-murder-may-be-deceased/
"Suspect in Karen Caughlin murder may be deceased
Crime, Lambton County — By jd on July 6, 2012 at 9:19 am

LambtonShield.com has learned that one of the suspects in the 1974 murder of Karen Caughlin may have died"

(I was thinking that Petrolia was not that far from Brantford where Mary Hammond was last seen alive...)

father & son arrested in the 1978 Michael Traynor case out of Barrie:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2012/07/12/toronto-barrie-explosives-arrest.html

Connected to the suspects in Barrie coldcase,
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2012/07/13/19984166.html
"Police say they have found two cement bunkers behind the home, one measuring about 20x10, and about seven-feet high.

It contains both explosives as well as food and equipment to sustain people for a short amount of time.

Police said they have found wires and explosive devices, such as propane tanks and containers of gasoline, as well as at least five mechanisms that could explode.

A robot has been brought up from Toronto to assist the technicians in disabling the bomb-like appliances"

LadyL said:

father & son arrested in the 1978 Michael Traynor case out of Barrie:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2012/07/12/toronto-barrie-explosives-arrest.html

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Thanks. I didn't remember having actually done a summary of this case until I heard about the victim having been bound to a tree. From post #42:

●Michael Traynor, 26, an unemployed plumber, vanished from his hometown, Barrie, Ontario, on Tuesday, September 12th, 1978, after spending an evening at a bar with friends. A hunter found Traynor’s decomposed body on Monday, October 2nd in a densely forested area north of Barrie. His hands were tied behind his back with copper wire and he had a gaping gunshot wound to the chest.

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This guy accused of sex assault and violence, seems to fly under the radar (at least media-wise) wondering if there is more to it ...
http://www.983flyfm.com/theflyfm/charges-against-kingston-man-revealed/
"Forty-one-year-old Christopher Edgar was arrested on Wednesday by Kingston Police and was charged with sexual assault, forcible confinement, break and enter, dangerous driving, flight from police and possession of stolen property."

Trying to find a thread for Simone Sandler or a place to put info. (not that there seems to be anything new,) but just in case it relates to any other crimes past and present.

http://www.examiner.com/article/cold-case-friday-simone-sandler-21


"Media reports said that Sandler was last seen with a tall, thin, dark-haired, tattooed, young man known in the area as known as “Joe.” -- the Toronto Star reported that “Joe” was in a relationship with Sandler, a relationship which broke off a week before her disappearance.


Another anonymous caller said that they had witnessed the murdered woman getting into a dark-coloured sedan with a driver described as having a mulatto complexion and dark hair.


In 2008, Toronto Police reopened their investigation into the Simone Sandler homicide as the request of her family. To this day, no leads, suspects, or motives have ever emerged.


In the days, months, and years following the murder, Toronto Police interviewed more than 100 people, travelling to Vancouver, Saskatoon and Northern Ontario to conduct interviews"

I'm almost positive I did a capsule synopsis of Simone Sandler's murder in this thread, dotr. I remember writing it. If not, it was a major oversight.

Edit: Yes, it's the fourth case in post #27.

Wondering about this site which appears to be a complete duplicate of this thread "Toronto Crimes".??
http://club.cccgrapevine.com/showpost-1-659-1.html

CrimeSolver said:

●At 8 a.m. on Friday, March 19th, 1993, the body of 41-year-old Barbara Brodkin was discovered by her 6-year-old son after he awoke; the boy called 911. The woman had been stabbed in the heart in the Balliol St. apartment where she resided with her son. She had been murdered sometime during the night as her child slept nearby. Brodkin was known to be a marijuana dealer, and police speculated the motive for her murder was robbery since a small cosmetics case belonging to the victim, containing drugs and money, was missing.

●On Thursday, September 1st, 1983, 23-year-old Toronto prostitute Claire Samson was seen in front of the Essex Hotel on Jarvis St. getting into a large, beige car driven by a balding older man. Samson was never seen alive again, and her body was found the following day in a wooded area off Oro Sideroad 20/21 near Highway 93, just north of Barrie, Ontario. She had been shot in the head with a small-calibre gun. In 1987 and 1989, this murder case was publicized by Crimestoppers, and a reward was offered, apparently to no avail.

●Anthony Carnovale, 30, was killed by shotgun blasts that hit his heart and lungs on Friday, January 11th, 1980, as he sat on a couch watching TV in his girlfriend’s apartment on Keele St. near Lawrence Ave. W. The two 12-gauge shotgun blasts that tore through the window of the apartment around 11 p.m. also wounded Carnovale’s girlfriend, Cathleen Pereira, in the shoulder and neck, but she survived. The gun was later determined to have been fired from no farther than 10 feet away. Neighbours saw a silver or grey Cadillac with a black vinyl roof fleeing the scene moments after the shooting.
At the time of his death, Carnovale was on parole and facing trial on drug trafficking charges. Police believe the killing was gangland retribution for something illicit in which the victim was involved. This crime was still confirmed unsolved in 1984.

●The body of Maladevi Latchman (age unknown) was found in the Humber River behind the Old Mill banquet hall on Tuesday, November 15th, 1994. An autopsy showed she had been brutally beaten, and it appeared her body had been thrown from a bridge over the river. No further information.

●At midnight on Tuesday, March 25th, 1969, 23-year-old Yvonne Dorion was walking home on Ferrier Ave., near Danforth and Pape Aves., just steps from the rooming house where she lived, when a tall man wearing a long coat jumped from the shadows of an adjacent parking lot and stabbed her in the back between the shoulder blades. Dorion survived the attack but was left partially paralyzed. An hour-and-a-half before the stabbing of Dorion, an elderly woman was attacked and robbed of her purse on the same street. She was physically unhurt. Dorion’s stabbing and recovery was a cause célèbre in the Toronto media for several months, but her assailant was never caught.

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Thanks, go figure- the only post of yours I had not 'thanked", no wonder I missed it! thanks.

Wondering who died in 2001 and where the mystery button (a symbol 8, or "eternity" came from?

Tuesday, April, 26, 2011 - 10:10:08 AM

"Veronica Kaye, 18, was found dead in Caledon on October 9, 1981. Her surviving family fears they may never learn who killed her."

By Heather Abrey, Enterprise Staff

http://www.caledonenterprise.com/news/closure-may-never-come-for-kaye-family/


"A few months ago police came to the family with a summary of their investigation. There is a person of interest, officers told them, but no suspect.
“All roads lead to this guy,” said Julie of the information she was given.
But, despite the “person of interest” status, this man, 45-years-old at the time Veronica was killed, will not face investigators in the interview room. He died in 2001, the family was told, and there isn’t enough physical evidence to say definitively that he was responsible for snuffing out the life of 18-year-old Veronica, or even to officially label him a suspect.
“This person wasn’t on our radar,” Julie explained. “The guy was a stranger. He was 45-years-old, lived [in Caledon], and he was working in Mississauga or Toronto. He came across my sister, who may have been hitch-hiking, and he took her and killed her.” Police told the family that this man was married and had children. He lived in the Caledon area for about four or five years and was an active hunter. But, despite the family’s appeal to have access to the executive summary of the investigation, they have been denied, and no one can tell them who this man was.
“I don’t know the name. People know the name, I just can’t get to it,” Julie said. “It’s the end of the road for us. There’s nowhere else to go. The suspect has died, and unless there’s a witness or evidence, it’s over.”
While Veronica’s sister is firm in her belief that this “person of interest” killed her sister, police were unable to find evidence to prove it.
“We met with the family back in November. We told them we’ve exhausted all of our possible investigative leads, so unless a witness or evidence comes forward [the case] will be marked inactive,” Karski explained. “We have no active lead or further investigative avenues to pursue.”
Officers provided as much information as possible to the family during the course of the investigation, but given that this man is not a suspect, his name is not an option.
“The definition of a person of interest is someone that we believe might have information about the incident or be involved,” explained Karski, reinforcing that there is not enough evidence for this man to be considered a suspect. “It’s unfair to that person that a shadow is cast on them and they can’t then defend themselves.”
Yet, despite not having the whole picture, police were still able to give Veronica’s family new information, and some of it was painful.
“I was so shocked by the age that I said it can’t be his first time,” Julie said of the man she believes is responsible. “Guys don’t just go out on their lunch hour, kill someone and go home… It actually hit home the viciousness of this guy to hear that it was so random. How many others? How can you have so much venom for a 5’4″ 18-year-old girl?”
The man, who is not officially a “suspect”, only a person of interest, did spend some time in jail for unspecified crimes, according to the Kaye family"

From above link concerning Veronica Kaye..
“The fantasy is that somebody is going to come across a box, and in that box will be the physical evidence that links her to him,” said Julie, noting that the jeans that Veronica had borrowed from a friend just before disappearing were never found, and that the source of the strange button was never identified. “Everybody just wants to know the truth about what happened. Who did it?”"



(IMO)
So who could this possible person of interest be? A guy who may have picked up a possibly hitch-hiking Veronica, someone who was 45 years old at the time of her murder Oct.9 1981, lived in Caledon for about 5 years with a wife and kids, enjoyed hunting, worked in Mississauga or Toronto and died in 2001, when he was approx. 66 years old?
Wonder if any one he knew might have found odd items with his belongings after he died, wonder if they would have the courage to tell someone ?