TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 - #1

I believe that Debardeleben is the most likely suspect in this crime. I looked at his former house - it is a short drive to this house taking East Seminary St. and then Grandbury Rd from the Seminary South mall. This Debardeleben was known to dress up as a police officer. It makes me wonder if the former Seminary South Mall security guard's story of seeing the girls at 11 or 11:30pm in another security guard's truck was true. The other security guard said that he never had the girls in his truck when he was questioned. But what if the security guard who reported this sighting was telling the truth, but mistook Debardeleben for the other real security guard because he had his vehicle tricked out to look like a legit security vehicle and was wearing a uniform?

Of course the trio would feel it was OK to be in a vehicle with the security guard and it would be easy enough to trick them into getting into the truck.

Hi... Justthinking and Princess Rose...Of all the scenerios I've read this one makes the most since to me. How easy it would be for a fake cop/security guard to con the girls away from the mall! The post card still bugs me though. What was the purpose of that? To taunt the family? Was he buying time? If so why not more details in it then just a very vauge note? Also since it arrived like the next day it makes me think it was preplanned a bit. Otherwise would the perp thought of it so fast after the crime?
Just rambling my thoughts here....

Jdee said:

Hi... ... The post card still bugs me though. What was the purpose of that? To taunt the family? Was he buying time? If so why not more details in it then just a very vauge note? Also since it arrived like the next day it makes me think it was preplanned a bit. Otherwise would the perp thought of it so fast after the crime?
Just rambling my thoughts here....

Click to expand...

This case, like a lot of others which got a lot of media coverage, probably has a lot of false leads and stories. There are probably a number of people who have actually "confessed" to the crime, or who have tried to take credit for it - or who have supplied information which is bogus or simply not pertinent to the actual crime.

Each piece of information has to be considered, but not necessarily given full weight when trying to come up with possible scenarios or theories or suspects.

There are indeed some (now) well documented and known offenders who might fit the profile or pattern of this or other crimes, but there were probably at any given time a few hundred evil individuals like him around the country doing similar crimes.

In regard to a possible connection between this tripple disappearance and that of the Lyon Sisters, I would invite anyone to visit the Lyon sisters site here on Websleuths. There are a lot of POSSIBLE suspects and similar cases posted there for comparison. It is very doubtful if any of those possible suspects were working together, or if they even knew eachother, but perhaps one guy committed one of the crimes and someone else committed another.

The possibly connected cases mentioned on the Lyon Sisters topic discussion could also be connected to this case.

I have temporarily deleted my post to check for any copyright infringements.

February 27, 1973, the body of Becky Martin, a young married housewife and student at Tarrant County Junior College in southeast Ft. Worth was found in a culvert. Her remains, too badly decomposed to determine manner of death. She'd been abducted from a parking lot at the school in mid afternoon. Her purse still in her car.

Feb. 17, 1974, Carla Walker was abducted from a vehicle in the parking lot of a bowling alley on the west side of Ft. Worth, shortly after midnight, and while out on a date. She may have been held for several days before being murdered. She was found Feb. 20th, her body also left in a culvert out near Benbrook Lake. Her date. Rodney McCoy was fully cleared of any involvement.

Of interesting note, Debardeleben had earlier rec'd. 5 years probation for a series of car thefts. He'd dumped someone's brand new Corvette in Benbrook Lake. His partner in crime squealed on him.

Retired Ft. Worth detective, John Terrell may believe both these murders were committed by the same suspect--not Debardeleben. Ft. Worth LE didn't agree with his theories according to statements Terrell made on his website http://www.justiceforcarla.com/thecase.shtml Well worth reading.

Terrell makes a good case for "his suspect" in the Carla Walker murder; however, it's possible the two murders are unrelated. The fact that Walker was also found in a culvert could have been a copycat disposal or not, whichever the case may be.

June 1, 1979, Mike Debardeleben abducted a girl named Laurie Jensen in Maryland. She was later released. During her ordeal, Debardeleben insisted on calling her, "Becky."

The above tidbit is the major reason for my post. I'm wondering if Debardeleben's insistence on calling Jensen, "Becky" goes back to an earlier crime he may have committed in Ft. Worth, TX.

The 2 culvert murders may or may not be related to the 3 girls missing, but I feel they are worth mentioning here for possible connections.

Is it possible that Debardeleben is responsible for Becky Martin's murder? Could he have abducted, Carla Walker, and held her as he was later known to do? He seemed to latch onto a fantasy, rehearse it in his mind, and then carry it out. Was abducting 3 girls or at least two, yet another of his fantasies?

Later in passing counterfeit money, he made Dallas one of his many stops, but he avoided Ft. Worth or at least there's no mention of him passing funny money there that I'm aware of. Did he have his reasons?

It's hard to say whether or not he was in Ft. Worth on all the dates when each of these killings or abductions took place. He and his wife Caryn did move back to 3920 Spurgeon St., Ft. Worth sometime before his mother died in September of 1973, but when exactly?

By April of 1974, he and Caryn had returned to Virginia. On May5, 1975 he beat Phillipa Voliner with a gun in Memphis, TN.

His activities and whereabouts are then unaccounted for until 1976 when he is first arrested for counterfeiting. Did he return to Ft. Worth toward the end of 1974? It's unknown. He certainly was familiar with the territory.He certainly seemed not to hang around long after some of his crimes, moving frequently and rapidly.
__________________

Interesting Princess Rose.. I did read what TexasSandman said about the mail. Though I also read that sometimes the mail did come early in their area. I don't know if I find it unusual to check the mail in the morning though. Maybe he was outside and just happen to think about it or remembered he hadn't checked it the day before so went and checked it early. Heck I've done that...
But the idea that word was not out yet about the girls and the card arriveing before hand is very suspicious. Though my gut still doesn't connect the husband here... but more to a stranger abduction.

I ordered the biographies of Debardebelen to try to put together a timeframe and am trying to get in contact with one of his biograhers so I can determine if this man was definitely in Ft. Worth on Dec. 24, 1974. I'll be looking for other clues that might indicate her was involved in the trio's disappearance as well. There can be no doubt that he is the sort of person who could pull off such a crime:

high intelligence
worked alone - secretive
disguised himself as police officer or security person in order to win victim's trust
hatred for women
committed crimes at malls
lived nearby
highly organized
was flying beneath police radar at the time of the trio case
changes type of crimes readily
tended to offend around holidays

All of this is circumstantial. It will be interesting if we can find even more evidence that will point to this person.

Debardeleben had an IQ of 127, high enough to get into medical school, and certainly higher than your average man with a badge.

I just read something, and wish I could relay where I got the info, but I've been reading quite a bit, not only what's available on Debard..., but also the psychology and progression of serial killers, whom at least one source rates on a scale of 16-22. Debard...falls into the 22 range.

back to my original thought...some of the higher ranked killers are so organized, their schemes so well rehearsed that when they finally commit their first murder or 1st. robbery it may look like another guy's 20th. murder or robbery.

Concerning the Security Guard who came forward 26 years after the fact.....In the article that Scott Gordon reported on, the man states that he called LE, where he left his name, phone number and what he saw. However he claims that LE never contacted him and that is why he came forward after all this time. I would hope that all lead that were originally called in would have been kept with the original file. If that is the case then it would be very easy to check to see if the SG did REALLY come forward.

Again, this is coming from an article that was being written 26 years later, but it makes me wonder just how well the initial investigation was done. To think that LE did not even try to question or interview mall security to see if anything funny had been going on during the time before, after, and on the actual day in question.

M ~

Frustratingly, the book, Beyond Cruel, does not offer much insight into Debardeleben's exact whereabouts in 1974. However, in 1973, he was staying at his mom's house (month unknown) when he suddenly called his wife Caryn and demanded that although she had had surgery that day, she fly from VA to DFW airport. He didn't pick her up at the airport, and when she got to his mom's house on Spurgeon St., she found Debardaleben had a young blonde woman drugged and tied up in the attic. He told her that he had raped her and they had done a lot of drugs. She later claimed that she talked Debardeleben out of killing the girl and they dropped her off somewhere - but couldn't explain where. Justthinkin mentioned to me yesterday that she thought the girl in the attic might be Carla Walker. Knowing that Debardeleben's mother was dying of cancer at the time and that morphine was an end of life pain management tool for cancer patients back in the 1970's, it makes sense that he would have access to it and we both suspect that he was involved in the Carla Walker case.
http://www.unsolved-crimes.com/walker.html

Princess Rose, I just read that the FBI had searched the Spurgeon St. residence for bodies underneath the house. They didn't find anything. Well shoot. This tells me that Ft. Worth LE must know about Debardeleben because the FBI would've had to get permission to search the grounds, and I feel sure Ft. Worth LE was there watching the proceedings.

Still, s it doesn't necessarily clear him for the Martin or Walker murders. Perhaps LE thinks he did it, but just didn't have enough to go to trial with. Might be the same story with Rachel, Renee, and Julie Ann, if he was in Ft. Worth at that time, and that's a big if. I mean, we know where Becky and Carla were found. Don't know who, specifically, the FBI was searching for under that house. Maybe they were just checking it out to see if he'd stashed anyone under there, just going through the motions. I don't think Debard...would've been one to dump bodies under his own house. I think he was too cagey for that.

Yes, I agree, there is no way Debardeleben would bury bodies on his property or his mom's property. His fantasy was to have a house with a secret basement with a cell and and an industrial strength incinerator. Thank God he never got the chance to build that. What I wonder about, if Carla was in the attic at that house - back in 1984 they would not have had DNA technology. What I wonder is if they searched the attic and took everything out of there and if they found anything that might have DNA on it - such as the supposed stumps of marijuana cigarettes. That could prove that Carla or one of the other missing Ft. Worth girls was there.

I'm sure figuring out who all Debardeleben killed is not exactly high priority anymore since he has been put away for life. He is probably suspected, but he's not going to come clean. Yet, if they could get DNA on whoever he kept in the attic and run tests, that would be of great help, IMO.

The fact the Feds searched the crawlspace of the house says they didn't entirely buy Caryn's stories.

Princess Rose, Have you come across any tales in the book that remind you of either the 3 girls in Tx or the 2 in Maryland?

justthinkin said:

The fact the Feds searched the crawlspace of the house says they didn't entirely buy Caryn's stories.

Princess Rose, Have you come across any tales in the book that remind you of either the 3 girls in Tx or the 2 in Maryland?

Click to expand...

There is a scenario where he kidnapped two men - a gay couple - one was a bank manager. One of the men was sick with a stomach virus, so the other took him to the ER. When they returned home, Debardeleben was in their house (he had smashed a window to get in) and he literally ambushed them. So, he has done crimes involving multiple people. He seemed to specifically choose victims who are easy to control with fear. If they fought back, they mostly got away from him, albeit after a beating. The problem with Debardeleben's case is that while some of it is really well documented, there seem to be some really huge gaps as well. There is a lot that is known, but whole expanses of time that are unaccounted for. I am hoping that the next book will shed more light on his activities. But I'm only halfway through the first one, so there may be more information in it.

The book, Beyond Cruel, says that a Secret Service agent named Jim Rich investigated DeBardeleben's crimes in Ft. Worth and he looked at 20 unsolved homicides and some of the cases "bore unmistakable similarities to DeBardeleben's M.O. and rituals." (page 192) Frustratingly, the author doesn't list which Ft. Worth murders that Debardeleben is suspected of committing.

It goes on to describe the search of the attic of the house on Spurgeon St. They found two adjustible initial rings: one with an L another with an E. There was also a plastic cord in the attic that Debardeleben had used to tie the blonde woman to the beams and a crushed pair of women's sunglasses, Valentine's box. With these items available, it seems to me that they should be tested for DNA.

A valentine's box? Whoa. Maybe that was to remind him of Carla.

PR, I can't find the list of the area girls, dead or missing, that you posted. I know it wasn't that long ago. Sheesh, do you know which page it's on?

justthinkin said:

A valentine's box? Whoa. Maybe that was to remind him of Carla.

PR, I can't find the list of the area girls, dead or missing, that you posted. I know it wasn't that long ago. Sheesh, do you know which page it's on?

Click to expand...

Post #291 page 9 - I think - but the cases don't go far enough back if you're trying to match up the L and E from the two rings. I also went through the Texas missing persons database - nada. So the body or bodies may have been found. I may have to haul off and go to the library to research - this is really annoying - older crime data should be on the internet - it's not like there is a capacity issue.

I thought I would list out similar cases that have been discussed at Websleuths:

The Lyon Sisters
The Leslie Sisters
The Gaveston Mall disappearance (discussed earlier in this thread)

My research into Debardeleben indicates that he had a tendency to commit the same type of crime over and over in different areas of the country. For example he attacked and murdered female realtors with several years in between offenses. In one case, the realtor successfully fought him off and escaped, in two other cases, he killed them. However, these are in no way his only victims. A few of his victims escaped, but many were never found and starting in the 1980's he had a tendency to let his victims go - changing his pattern, yet again for unknown reasons.

There is no way to know if these cases are really linked or not, but there are some similarities, most particularily between the trio case and the Lyon sisters case.

In the Lyon case, the two sisters disapeared from a mall around the Easter holiday and were never found.

The Leslie Sisters case is similar only in that it was multiple girls - two girls - who disapeared at the time that their father was dying of cancer and the girls were never found. They disapeared while walking from their house to a friends house. They had lied to their parents and actually were going to a teen party. There is conflicting information as to whether or not they actually arrived at the party.

The Galveston Mall case - two girls disappeared from a mall but their bodies were found fairly soon. The case remains unsolved.