Motive For Murder

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Roy23 said:
Great post. I think I know what you are inferring but not sure. Can I counter with maybe RC wanted to work at Yale for that very reason?

Actually, no way most likely. Great post.
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Hi, I wasn't trying to infer anything. Just providing some facts on the Yale student population and it's richness of ethnic and international backgrounds.

Facts are nice.

In the event these facts are useful to posters in supporting their arguments regarding Annie's ethnicity and possible motive, I just thought I'd put the info here in our nice new thread. :innocent:
 
I can totally believe this-they have heated discussion, he tries to exert authority, she defends herself, argument, fight, he loses it
 
'Ailina said:
I think it's very possible that all of these things attributed to the "flash point" of murder: jealousy, attraction, resentment, control....

However, I think the primary element in RC's personality was his need for control. His seems to fit the personality profile for serial killers; if you recall, BTK was freakishly controlling about his neighborhood housing association requirements, even measuring cut grass with a ruler.

RC was a stickler for details and protocol as well, calling out people who violated the "shoe covers" regulation. Sounds like he tried to micro-manage everyone around him.

Annie strikes me as one who would "conciliate" to a point, but she would have to be confident and independent to function at her high level at the lab. To me, this would be just the type of situation fertile for a confrontation.

Add to that wedding stress (as someone mentioned in the general thread), perhaps RC's suppressed attraction, his anger at being unable to control those around him...Annie would seem to be a likely target -- petite, conciliatory, obliging (if she did respond to an email he sent), along with the necessary element of opposition to him, which would no doubt spark his violent nature.
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My thoughts exactly :clap: But much better worded than me-thank you
 
I'm leaning heavily to the idea that RC developed a "romantic" fixation on Annie and became frustrated at her impending wedding. This frustration may have manifested in calling her out on the animal protocol. But as her wedding grew nearer, the protocol controversy was not enough of an outlet. (Note that Annie remained professional and pleasant in response to RC's animal concerns and that she didn't become confrontational could have been construed as a "snub" as I think he was trying to get her attention anyway he could.) That's what I've got for now. IMO the only affair he had with Annie was in his head.
 
'Ailina said:
I think it's very possible that all of these things attributed to the "flash point" of murder: jealousy, attraction, resentment, control....

However, I think the primary element in RC's personality was his need for control. His seems to fit the personality profile for serial killers; if you recall, BTK was freakishly controlling about his neighborhood housing association requirements, even measuring cut grass with a ruler.

RC was a stickler for details and protocol as well, calling out people who violated the "shoe covers" regulation. Sounds like he tried to micro-manage everyone around him.

Annie strikes me as one who would "conciliate" to a point, but she would have to be confident and independent to function at her high level at the lab. To me, this would be just the type of situation fertile for a confrontation.

Add to that wedding stress (as someone mentioned in the general thread), perhaps RC's suppressed attraction, his anger at being unable to control those around him...Annie would seem to be a likely target -- petite, conciliatory, obliging (if she did respond to an email he sent), along with the necessary element of opposition to him, which would no doubt spark his violent nature.
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We have heard that RC came into the building after Annie did. I wonder if he was late and Annie had to do something that normally the technician did. Maybe at that point RC comes in and had issue with it. He already had issue with her practices so maybe they relived it again to the point of violence.
 
http://www.courant.com/news/connect...ale-student-murdered-cause-of,0,4101796.story

7:51 p.m. EDT, September 15, 2009

...It wasn't until five days after her disappearance that members of the state police crime squad, with the assistance of a cadaver dog, discovered her fully-clothed body...
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I'm bringing this to the motive thread for consideration. I have not puzzled out a motive as of yet.

Note: the above quote isn't attributed to anyone or an entity (LE/FBI). I had seen a previous article (which I can't find right now where the quote was attributed to a "source").
 
Well, I'll throw my two cents in as well...

As far as a motive, I personally feel that Annie had an affair with him and it ended badly, as has been mentioned earlier, or that she refuted an advance of some sort and it angered him. I am not sure he meant to kill her, though. I think he then went home and told the gf that he had done something, and they called the other two parties, and that's why they all left with baggage, which tells me that they knew something was up and went somewhere else for a day or so, possibly to discuss a plan of action.

JMO
 
gxm said:
I'm leaning heavily to the idea that RC developed a "romantic" fixation on Annie and became frustrated at her impending wedding. This frustration may have manifested in calling her out on the animal protocol. But as her wedding grew nearer, the protocol controversy was not enough of an outlet. (Note that Annie remained professional and pleasant in response to RC's animal concerns and that she didn't become confrontational could have been construed as a "snub" as I think he was trying to get her attention anyway he could.) That's what I've got for now. IMO the only affair he had with Annie was in his head.
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I can see this, too. The protocol thing seems like the natural avenue for his sexual and/or nonsexual frustrations.

Whether or not the romantic element actually did play a part in it, I think the violent end was the only possible end as far as RC was concerned. :(
 
Waddles said:
I can totally believe this-they have heated discussion, he tries to exert authority, she defends herself, argument, fight, he loses it
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I'm starting to see these events as a quite likely. I could definitely see him flying off into a rage at a woman who might have been defending her position against his accusations. A neighbor said RC seemed very controlling over his girlfriend and that she often heard yelling/arguing from his apartment.

The only things that lead me to believe Ray could have had a fatuation of sorts with Annie are his interest in Asian people (Asian club in high school/etc) and the possibility that he might have been hitting on women at work (the reference from his gf about an affair). But these could be completely unrelated.

ETA: I also see RC capable of sexual assult because his ex gf accused him of rape. I know we haven't heard if Annie was raped, and we have heard that she was found fully clothed, but she was wearing a skirt that day...I hate to think about it.
 
DeepThinker said:
Well, I'll throw my two cents in as well...

As far as a motive, I personally feel that Annie had an affair with him and it ended badly, as has been mentioned earlier, or that she refuted an advance of some sort and it angered him. I am not sure he meant to kill her, though. I think he then went home and told the gf that he had done something, and they called the other two parties, and that's why they all left with baggage, which tells me that they knew something was up and went somewhere else for a day or so, possibly to discuss a plan of action.

JMO
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Yeah, I'm not so sure this was premeditated either, because of what we've learned about his personality. Or maybe he's one of those guys who wishes he could "kill" anyone who opposed him, saying things like, "I'm gonna kill that guy," etc.

But I agree...I'm thinking he probably did tell GF and/or family either something happened, or that he was being wrongly suspected by LE. Either way, GF and family would try to "help" him. (Sure am glad I wasn't on the receiving end of his "story.")
 
It's so hard to figure out motive without knowing whether she was raped, beaten, dismembered, or if a ligature was used. I also think it is important to know if the perp intended to leave her where he hide her. I looked at some writings on modis operandi, and these facts could really help us out. I hope we hear at 5 pm.
 
'Ailina said:
I think it's very possible that all of these things attributed to the "flash point" of murder: jealousy, attraction, resentment, control....

However, I think the primary element in RC's personality was his need for control. His seems to fit the personality profile for serial killers; if you recall, BTK was freakishly controlling about his neighborhood housing association requirements, even measuring cut grass with a ruler.

RC was a stickler for details and protocol as well, calling out people who violated the "shoe covers" regulation. Sounds like he tried to micro-manage everyone around him.

Annie strikes me as one who would "conciliate" to a point, but she would have to be confident and independent to function at her high level at the lab. To me, this would be just the type of situation fertile for a confrontation.

Add to that wedding stress (as someone mentioned in the general thread), perhaps RC's suppressed attraction, his anger at being unable to control those around him...Annie would seem to be a likely target -- petite, conciliatory, obliging (if she did respond to an email he sent), along with the necessary element of opposition to him, which would no doubt spark his violent nature.
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Ailina, I totally agree with you. Given the information that we have, it appears to me that RC has major power and control issues. His older myspace page that was linked here yesterday shows that he has no respect for women. For him to have any self esteem or power and control issues around a grad student like Anne, he had to prove that he was in control of the whole situation. Who know what kind of self talk RC was using to justify his actions (if he is the killer), but you can bet the only remorse would be that he got caught. He seems so much like the spouse batterers that I have worked with. This is IMO.
 
I don't think it was premeditated either. I base my reasoning on him having to leave clothing behind, the location of the murder, and the cause of death. I think he strangled her spur of the moment because he didn't have a weapon. Overall, this doesn't appear to be a well thought out premeditated murder. If he did or currently was having an affair with her, why not just call her up and ask her to meet him somewhere or follow her known trails, why kill her in such a risky place?
 
Sanddollar14 said:
Who know what kind of self talk RC was using to justify his actions (if he is the killer), but you can bet the only remorse would be that he got caught. He seems so much like the spouse batterers that I have worked with. This is IMO.
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Definitely agreed. Someone with his personality would be convinced any problems were always "someone else's fault." Annie would've been one to defend her position logically. It's been my experience, when trying to argue logic with someone like RC, that only serves to further their irrational rage. (NOT saying it's Annie's fault at all here. Just saying her reasonable reaction would've fed into RC's rage.)
 
'Ailina said:
I think it's very possible that all of these things attributed to the "flash point" of murder: jealousy, attraction, resentment, control....

However, I think the primary element in RC's personality was his need for control. His seems to fit the personality profile for serial killers; if you recall, BTK was freakishly controlling about his neighborhood housing association requirements, even measuring cut grass with a ruler.

RC was a stickler for details and protocol as well, calling out people who violated the "shoe covers" regulation. Sounds like he tried to micro-manage everyone around him.

Annie strikes me as one who would "conciliate" to a point, but she would have to be confident and independent to function at her high level at the lab. To me, this would be just the type of situation fertile for a confrontation.

Add to that wedding stress (as someone mentioned in the general thread), perhaps RC's suppressed attraction, his anger at being unable to control those around him...Annie would seem to be a likely target -- petite, conciliatory, obliging (if she did respond to an email he sent), along with the necessary element of opposition to him, which would no doubt spark his violent nature.
Click to expand...

That's what I believe happened. He tried to show some authority, although he was a paeon, over some silly violation exactly like the "shoe covers" violation, or "we put the slash in THIS spot", and she was initially contrite and then put him in his place, and his pent-up anger over not being someone important suddenly took over. I'm not saying this well, but it's my theory.
 
'Ailina said:
Yeah, I'm not so sure this was premeditated either, because of what we've learned about his personality. Or maybe he's one of those guys who wishes he could "kill" anyone who opposed him, saying things like, "I'm gonna kill that guy," etc.

But I agree...I'm thinking he probably did tell GF and/or family either something happened, or that he was being wrongly suspected by LE. Either way, GF and family would try to "help" him. (Sure am glad I wasn't on the receiving end of his "story.")
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He's definitely off-center, to say the least. However, being off-center is not grounds for condemnation. I agree with other posters in that he sounds very controlling, most likely has low self-esteem and a lot of rage. Those could very easily culminate into an act of passion, such as strangulation. Considering Annie's very petite frame (I read somewhere that she only weighed about 90 lbs.), it wouldn't take much pressure at all to strangle her. This, in my mind, is consistent with the types of wounds RC is said to have (scratch marks on his chest and arms, and a mark under one eye). To me, these definitely indicate defense wounds from the victim. (When I first read that he had defense wounds, I thought he was the one defending against an attacker - needless to say, I was a bit confused, lol :waitasec:)
 
I think it's important to know that in a lab setting regulations are very numerous and very well defined. It's important to adhere to regulations but following them to the absolute strictest letter of the law can be a little bit unnecessary, like the example of always wearing shoe covers in the area where Raymond worked. Shoe covers are probably important but if you walk in the area without shoe covers for a moment it may not make any difference.

In my experience working in one lab when you entered the lab area you were supposed to wear safety glasses, that was the rule. But if you just needed to go into the lab for a second to retrieve some paperwork and weren't going to be near any dangerous chemicals...then it was OK to not put on safety glasses (though my boss would frown on it. He wouldn't freak out though).

This could also extend to the way you used chemicals, filled out paperwork, cleaned up after yourself, etc....

Now there was a picture of the Bennett lab, which was the main group Annie was in and not at the Amistad building (I don't believe). It looked like many university labs I have seen, a mess. The reason for that is because universities don't tend to have many, if any, safety control officers so the tidyness of individual labs depend on how neat the professor or whomever runs it is.

So Annie may have been used to a little more disorder. She also was probably generally pushed for time so those types of things can make you cut corners even if it's just in a small way. Labwork includes a lot of paperwork and cleanup. Sometimes it's really difficult to fill out and do everything perfectly. For example, I used to have to check refrigerators every day and record the temperature on paperwork stuck by a magnet on each fridge. Sometimes I just got busy and forgot so there was a gap in the record. It probably didn't really matter because the temps were almost always the same but it was supposed to be done and I did my best to keep up with it but it's not always possible to be perfect.

Finally, I have known people who use regulations to further their ulterior motives and I'm sure many of you do too. For example a woman I worked with persuaded the boss to institute a policy that every time you left the workplace you had to mark yourself out on a board. Her stated reason was because if there were a fire we would have to know who was in the facility so we could account for them. But her real reason was that she wanted the control of knowing who was where.

Anyway, it sounds to me like Raymond used absolute adherence to the regulations, something nobody could always do, to fill his need to control. I could see him channeling great anger into feeling always screwed over because people didn't do something right. Maybe he had to clean up behind researchers, maybe he just had OCD about it, maybe it was because he felt like the low guy on the totem pole or a combination of all of it.

I'm not discounting an infatuation with Annie also but from the e-mails and what other people who used his lab said it sounds like he had these issues.
 
'Ailina said:
Definitely agreed. Someone with his personality would be convinced any problems were always "someone else's fault." QUOTE]

Yes, always someone else's fault and is probably angry with her because she made him do it. Was it in one of the newspapers that said his neighbors talked about how mean he was to his girlfriend? It looks like he only had control over his dog.
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FishingFunnyFrog said:
The emails exchanges between Ray and Annie seem interesting...Ray was accusing Annie of not following protocol with the lab mice. The murder seems more sexual to me though. Perhaps Ray was infatuated with Annie and used the lab mice protocol thing as a reason to contact Annie via email and have conversations with her? http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,550740,00.html
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Hi, FishingFunnyFrog, great moniker. To me, that accusation sounds more like a controlling male than a hopeful suitor. Which apparently was his reputation with at least some of his neighbors.
 
Postulating here only:

I keep thinking about how Annie the bride MUST have been leaving town very soon for NY (wedding guests arriving, etc.), (and for at least a week, one would think), and making advance preparations to be gone from work - making preparations with regard to her absence from her research & perhaps from her mice. By Tuesday, she may have been making final preparations, and last minute requests, etc.

Labrat would have a better idea, but it seems Annie & RC might naturally need to communicate about mice things with regard to her absence. (Maybe even during her absence.)

Lots of work-related reasons to have an argument, and Annie's leaving for the wedding could have sparked some work-related conflict between them.

again, just noodlin' here...
 
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