Are the Ramseys involved or not?

Are the Ramseys involved or not?

  • The Ramseys are somehow involved in the crime and/or cover-up

    Votes: 883 75.3%
  • The Ramseys are not involved at all in the crime or cover-up

    Votes: 291 24.8%

  • Total voters
    1,173
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QUOTE BY COCO PUFF:
"ITA. Also, if you were "foreign faction" would you describe yourself as small? Especially if you were demanding a ransom? Wouldn't you want to appear like a big and strong faction? hhhmmmm LE note to self....well it WAS a small faction" that is why we can't find any evidence of it's existance."

I've often pondered that question as well, with different conclusions all the
time. It seems rational that a person would think a real foreign faction
would want to appear "big and strong", but maybe it was to make people
think it wasn't the work of an intruder,thus slightly implicating the Ramseys.
Or,on the flip side of the coin,maybe they were really a "small foreign faction" and
weren't going to hesitate to use that term to describe themselves as,maybe because they were proud that a group so "small" could possibly pull of a crime
so big? Entering their large home in the dark,committing the murder, writing the note, and leaving without being detected. Could be.
Very.Such being the case.


Connor

I have the same issues with this as you do. The quote "small foreign faction" gives me big big problems. I don't even look at it from an IDI or RDI perspective at all. But it gives me the feeling that it is a group of "young" kids with problems. Like a Dylan Klebold. It is freaky.
 
I have the same issues with this as you do. The quote "small foreign faction" gives me big big problems. I don't even look at it from an IDI or RDI perspective at all. But it gives me the feeling that it is a group of "young" kids with problems. Like a Dylan Klebold. It is freaky.

I thought of that when I saw "Muder by numbers"

Two gifted high school students execute a "perfect" murder - then become engaged in an intellectual contest with a seasoned homicide detective.
Richard Haywood, a Californian high school's coolest kid, secretly teams up with another rich kid in his class, brilliant nerd Justin 'Bonaparte' Pendleton, whose erudition, specially in forensic matters, allows them to plan elaborately perfect murders, just for the kick, for which they set up Richard's marijuana supplier, their school's janitor Ray Feathers, as a psychotic serial killer.


If it's so then they probably went on with their lives,maybe have decent jobs and families and the only thing they need to worry about is stay out of trouble so they never have to give any DNA samples ever.

And not to mention,who would have considered the BPD (back then) an intellectual oponent.The game wouldn't be fun in this case without a smart oponent .
(I think this theory was discussed on the Leopold&Loeb thread.)
 
I thought of that when I saw "Muder by numbers"

Two gifted high school students execute a "perfect" murder - then become engaged in an intellectual contest with a seasoned homicide detective.
Richard Haywood, a Californian high school's coolest kid, secretly teams up with another rich kid in his class, brilliant nerd Justin 'Bonaparte' Pendleton, whose erudition, specially in forensic matters, allows them to plan elaborately perfect murders, just for the kick, for which they set up Richard's marijuana supplier, their school's janitor Ray Feathers, as a psychotic serial killer.


If it's so then they probably went on with their lives,maybe have decent jobs and families and the only thing they need to worry about is stay out of trouble so they never have to give any DNA samples ever.

And not to mention,who would have considered the BPD (back then) an intellectual oponent.The game wouldn't be fun in this case without a smart oponent .
(I think this theory was discussed on the Leopold&Loeb thread.)

If it were similar to that movie, they would probably have taunted police or somehow involved themselves in the investigation. The term "small foreign faction" makes me think it was a club with experimental young kids. It is farfetched though that a group was involved and most certainly was one person if you adhere to the IDI philosophy. We speak of revenge and internal knowlege due to the bonus amount, but the crime itself indicates a pedofile or beginning pedofile.

And to top it off, a group of young kids can't keep their mouth shut. But that phrase gives me many many problems.
 
If it were similar to that movie, they would probably have taunted police or somehow involved themselves in the investigation. The term "small foreign faction" makes me think it was a club with experimental young kids. It is farfetched though that a group was involved and most certainly was one person if you adhere to the IDI philosophy. We speak of revenge and internal knowlege due to the bonus amount, but the crime itself indicates a pedofile or beginning pedofile.

And to top it off, a group of young kids can't keep their mouth shut. But that phrase gives me many many problems.

Btw,I was reading about the Sylvia Likens case the other day.And besides the fact that Mrs.Santa wrote a play based on her murder I can't find any connection between the murder and Santa's daughter.It's been said she was a witness to the crime or is it not true?Doesn anyone know?
Anyhow I never thought that Santa did it(and still don't think so) but I didn't know how horrible the Likens murder was and how many kids were involved,geez.The basement,the violence,the assault,some bizarre coincidences.Something hit me though.It seems they found burns on her body and I was thinking of JB,I always wondered if those abrasions were actually burns.But the coroner would have noticed that if so,right?

(ETA:cigarette burns,not stun gun marks)
 
Im going to put my 2 cents in to this to:

I believe that PR killed her daughter. I believe that JBR made her mad because she wet her bed and with having to get up so early the next am, she snapped and hit her, knocked her over or maybe even down the stairs and she died. I believe that JR helped her cover it up. I believe that PR wrote that RN. The DNA evidence in JBs underwear didn't match anyone in the house (BTW, did they have any pets?) Does anyone know if LE has put the DNA evidence into CODIS? IMO, they need to do that every year. IF and I say that as a BIG IF, there was an intruder, a person that does this once will do it again and almost certainly get caught. I think that maybe BR knows what happened, we may have to wait until JR is dead until he speaks?

That's all my opinion. Thankx guys!

The known facts and the unexplained facts are what makes this case mystifying for many people. Particularly the alleged sexual abuse of JonBenet, whether it happened two nights prior to her death and on the night of her death. It did occur. That it occurred is probably what lies behind her death and subsequent staging, otherwise 911 could have been called. Burke Ramsey was in that house that night , he is on record stating that JonBenet walked into the house, on returning from the White's. He will know who sipped tea as JonBenet snacked on pineapple, and just as importantly, something he was never asked, wonder why, what was JonBenet wearing that night, pink barbie nightgown, white-gap top, red turtleneck, or pink pajamas?

So if his involvement goes beyond that of a spectator, I reckon at some in the near future we will get to hear about it, human nature is human nature!


.
 
Btw,I was reading about the Sylvia Likens case the other day.And besides the fact that Mrs.Santa wrote a play based on her murder I can't find any connection between the murder and Santa's daughter.It's been said she was a witness to the crime or is it not true?Doesn anyone know?
Anyhow I never thought that Santa did it(and still don't think so) but I didn't know how horrible the Likens murder was and how many kids were involved,geez.The basement,the violence,the assault,some bizarre coincidences.Something hit me though.It seems they found burns on her body and I was thinking of JB,I always wondered if those abrasions were actually burns.But the coroner would have noticed that if so,right?

(ETA:cigarette burns,not stun gun marks)

Mrs. Santa (aka Janet McReynolds) was NOT a witness to that murder. It is confusing because her daughter was abducted as a young girl along with a friend. The friend was sexually assaulted and the McReynolds daughter was forced to watch. I am not familiar with much more on that case- was their daughter's friend killed as well?
Interesting- the day of this crime was Dec. 26, wasn't it?
It is odd that, as the McReynolds were both questioned in the JB case and gave writing, hair and saliva samples (and CLEARED) that not much else was revealed about their own child's ordeal. It was not mentioned, as far as I know, whether she knew her abductor or how she was safely returned to her parents or whether anyone was arrested in that crime. It makes me suspicous that a family member may have been involved in that crime- why else the secrecy?
 
If the DNA found on her underwear and clothes points to an unknown man (not matching the three people still living in the house) Catch me up here, why would anyone still think they are involved. That DNA is run through the system every 2 weeks now.

(considering the number of places they found it, underwear, under her fingernails) I don't buy casual contact.. And everyone at the party was checked/DNA.. and eliminated

I still say intruder, but I think Intruder who knew them
 
If the DNA found on her underwear and clothes points to an unknown man (not matching the three people still living in the house) Catch me up here, why would anyone still think they are involved. That DNA is run through the system every 2 weeks now.

(considering the number of places they found it, underwear, under her fingernails) I don't buy casual contact.. And everyone at the party was checked/DNA.. and eliminated

I still say intruder, but I think Intruder who knew them

The male CHILDREN at the party were not checked. There is far too much to "catch up" on. You'll have to do some research. How do you know THAT DNA is run through every 2 weeks?
The DNA may not actually rule out the people in the house. Cynic is our resident DNA expert and can do a better job than I can of explaining how that is possible.
 
Hello WS :)

I have been thinking of the R's quote: "we don't know anybody that evil."

This is just sleuthy nit picking but I keep on thinking: "well how evil are the people that you know?"

Also: If they did it: why call LE? If Burke did it: why call LE? If the kidnappers did it and the note says not to call LE or your child will die, why call LE?

Why did the R's call LE?

...jmo...


Working from an RDI perspective, they had no choice but to call LE. There was body that had to be explained. They were scheduled to fly to MI that morning - their pilot would be asking where they were. Friends and neighbors would be asking where JBR was. They couldn't dump the body, Casey Anthony style, and just not mention her for 6 months.
 
If the DNA found on her underwear and clothes points to an unknown man (not matching the three people still living in the house) Catch me up here, why would anyone still think they are involved. That DNA is run through the system every 2 weeks now.

(considering the number of places they found it, underwear, under her fingernails) I don't buy casual contact.. And everyone at the party was checked/DNA.. and eliminated

I still say intruder, but I think Intruder who knew them

Hopefully Cynic will catch you up on DNA details. I'll just say this - The DNA doesn't even mean someone was present that night, much less does it mean that man is the killer.

The DNA is so-called "touch DNA" and is from an unidentified male. It's possible the DNA is from a factory worker at the factory where the panties were produced. It's possible it comes from one of the male children at the party.

To be fair, it is also possible that it comes from the killer. But that is not a given, and the existence of the DNA does not clear the Rs.

But even if the DNA comes from a man who was in the house that night, it doesn't mean he killed JBR.

There are many many inconsistencies with IDI theory, and that is why people still suspect the Rs.
 
Hello WS :)

I have been thinking of the R's quote: "we don't know anybody that evil."

This is just sleuthy nit picking but I keep on thinking: "well how evil are the people that you know?"

Also: If they did it: why call LE? If Burke did it: why call LE? If the kidnappers did it and the note says not to call LE or your child will die, why call LE?

Why did the R's call LE?

...jmo...

Also, I believe that Patsy truly loved JonBenet and would not have left her there, mot knowing when she would have been found. I think this had to do with Hohn's anxiousness and the fact that he went down to the basement, vs upstairs first on the last search.

If he was looking for 'clues', wouldn't the most logical place to start, be in JonBenet or at least on the second floor?
 
Also, I believe that Patsy truly loved JonBenet and would not have left her there, mot knowing when she would have been found. I think this had to do with Hohn's anxiousness and the fact that he went down to the basement, vs upstairs first on the last search.

If he was looking for 'clues', wouldn't the most logical place to start, be in JonBenet or at least on the second floor?

That would also have been the logical place for JR to start when Detective Arndt told him to have another look around.
When presented with a ransom note (at least a REAL one) you don't look under a bed or in a closet to see if the child is hiding. JB didn't write her own note as a prank. The RN was not a prank- it was a fake. There is a difference. When a parent experiences the horror of finding a ransom note for their missing child, it is always thought that the child is just that: missing. Not hiding. THESE parents looked for her under her bed. ?????
 
If the DNA found on her underwear and clothes points to an unknown man (not matching the three people still living in the house) Catch me up here, why would anyone still think they are involved. That DNA is run through the system every 2 weeks now.

(considering the number of places they found it, underwear, under her fingernails) I don't buy casual contact.. And everyone at the party was checked/DNA.. and eliminated

I still say intruder, but I think Intruder who knew them

I really do not want to search for the thread or the post right now, but many experts have stated that it would be impossible to say the blood was not from the Ramseys, as the blood could have been a mixed sample. If this were the case, no one can be ruled out.
 
I really do not want to search for the thread or the post right now, but many experts have stated that it would be impossible to say the blood was not from the Ramseys, as the blood could have been a mixed sample. If this were the case, no one can be ruled out.

Thank you- that is what I was trying to say. I know Cynic had posted something about the sample NOT ruling out a R of is was from a mixed source vs a single source.
 
I think that the Ramsey's were involved. I think it may have been Burke that killed JonBenet. I do keep an open mind to the possibility it may have been an intruder, however. IF it was an intruder, IMO it was someone who the Ramsey's were familiar with, that felt comfortable roaming around the house, and attacking JonBenet within the house. JMO, as always.
 
I hope it's OK to post this here...I can't access the New Thread link yet. I also don't see a Search function to see if this has been discussed before. Anyway, I am just finishing the novel "My Sister, My Love" by Joyce Carol Oates. It is loosely based (though it contains some striking similarities) on the Jon Benet case. I won't give away how the book ends, in case anyone wants to read it, but the author is definitely an " inside job" advocate.

As an adjunct to all the reading/information out there on this case, this book is an interesting take on what the interrelationships may have been like in the Ramsey family, leading up to that fateful night.

Glad to be on board here,
chemgirl
 
Welcome Chemgirl!! Thank you for posting, sounds like a good book!!
 
If the DNA found on her underwear and clothes points to an unknown man (not matching the three people still living in the house) Catch me up here, why would anyone still think they are involved.

I hope you have time, Sabrina, because we could be here a while answering that.
 
The male CHILDREN at the party were not checked. There is far too much to "catch up" on. You'll have to do some research. How do you know THAT DNA is run through every 2 weeks?
The DNA may not actually rule out the people in the house. Cynic is our resident DNA expert and can do a better job than I can of explaining how that is possible.


DeeDee,

Ive been thinking about the rag or towel that wiped JB down. Was it ever found? I dont think it was, but I cant find a source or even post/topic where its mentioned.

This is whats on my mind, we all know or at least common sense should tell us, that TDAN, is highly transferable. What if the compromised DNA in the panties and on the long johns, was from the cloth she was wiped with.

This makes the most sense to me. No matter how I look at it, if this is a case of the TDNA being secondary transfer, my guess would be the towel/rag/cloth was the source.....
 
DeeDee,

Ive been thinking about the rag or towel that wiped JB down. Was it ever found? I dont think it was, but I cant find a source or even post/topic where its mentioned.

This is whats on my mind, we all know or at least common sense should tell us, that TDAN, is highly transferable. What if the compromised DNA in the panties and on the long johns, was from the cloth she was wiped with.

This makes the most sense to me. No matter how I look at it, if this is a case of the TDNA being secondary transfer, my guess would be the towel/rag/cloth was the source.....

The coroner found dark (cotton?) fibers on JB't thighs and pubic area. It noted, as we know, that these findings were "consistent with having been wiped down with a cloth". Unfortunately, the specific cloth itself was not identified, as far as I know. A navy terry bathrobe belonging to JB was found in the den (an odd place for a bathrobe, right?) I do not know if this bathrobe was ever tested to see if those fibers were a match. But I'd bet it probably wasn't.
 
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