Caylee's "Big Trouble..." Shirt Incl. Photos *Merged*

sumbunny said:

Kronk stated when he poked at the bag, the skull rolled out.
so who really knows how the skull was, if left untouched

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While that was what he initially said, he recanted that statement and said the skull was uncovered.

AquarianEssence said:

Yes, here I was referring to larger animals and birds. They wouldn't have need to tear the shirt up, but may the shorts. All of the smaller creatures I've observed go for the entrails. The lower abdomen is the easiest way into the body without bone obstruction.

Sumbunny, the detective said her skull could not have rolled out as Kronk stated and that makes perfect sense to me. It isn't very likely that it would land perfectly upright having the center of gravity on the mouth area. Remember, there was extra weight attached there. Plus the hair was spread around and on top and the ground looked as though it had been there for a period of time, not just landing there that day.

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We also have to consider water creatures that may have been there during the flooding. Birds that will take scraps of fabric for nest building and further animal activity after the soft tissue was gone as well. As I stated before, just too many variables , in my opinion, to consider the missing shirt fabric suspicious.

doogiesgirl said:

[/B]

Above bolded by me.

In Haleigh's case, the reason LE searched the woods next to her home is that Haleigh was taken from her home, her bed, in the middle of the night. In Caylee's case, KC left the Anthony home with Caylee 31 days before she was reported missing to LE, KC told LE that she dropped Caylee off at Sawgrass, then the story switched to Blanchard Park. I believe LE does their very best in those critical first hours and days with what is being reported to them. Why would they search the woods by Caylee's home those first few days when according to her mother, she dropped her off somewhere else 31 days before? Also KC and her family were insisting that Caylee was alive. And didn't LE or/and TES try to search that area? jmo

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:clap:
SEE........ KC's lies.... more trouble again !!!!!!!

makes me so angry !:furious:

The Lies and web of lies & WEB OF LIES UPON TOP OF ~ L I E S !!!

that
should make a jury take a good hard L@@K !!!!!!

JMO
God Bless!
jjgram


*** I think it is disgusting !:furious:

KC U deserve to be :behindbar

AquarianEssence said:

My thought on that is that George would likely have the cop attitude that the public should stay out of their way and let them do their job. They brought in a PI but may have felt they had to because there was very little looking for a live baby girl. Everyone reacts differently. Some would feel the need to be walking the fields and woods looking, others would feel they couldn't handle it if they found her or couldn't bear to do a woods search because that would mean having to consider the possibility she is dead. We all handle fear and grief differently.

I've thought about Casey's statement a lot too, about them not even finding her clothes yet. To me, it felt like she was saying they haven't EVEN found her belongings that were with her, let alone finding her. The way I see it there are several things missing. I don't believe the white backpack has shown up in the car or the house. The body of the shirt is missing, not dissolved. There are no shoes. As others have said, most mothers never leave the house without a full day's worth of supplies. For one of my kids I had a small diaper bag and also took another bag. Whether using diapers or training pants I had as many as would fit with a couple changes of clothes, a couple plastic bags to hold dirty diapers and clothes, wipes, my Caley Cream, a bag of chex or something similar, something to drink, small toys. There were only two pull ups and no clothes in the bag they found and it wasn't white. I believe there is still a bag out there. She probably had two backpacks in the car that day, one left in there and the freshly packed one. I had one with toys and extra diapers I just left in the car. As much as Casey was on the road she likely had multiple bags going on too, especially if they were small.

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I agree !
this is a very good ~ helpful ~ post !

*** Although ~ I will say... I do NOT believe KC was a
good mother !
Because any mother... would call 911 or at least get her
own parents/family to search for the missing TODDLER !!!

not dialing 911
Not Telling family is the ultimate RED FLAG

and the shirt....... missing clothes NOT BEING FOUND>...

disgusting statement by KC !!!!!

*** Clothing today is NOT made strong... to last like clothing
of the past... TODAY's Clothing is made to last a season....
or maybe enough for one / child/ or brother and sister to wear....
but
not to last like clothing of the PAST !!! JMO that is why
the $$$$ Prices are less !!!!
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Devon said:

We don't actually know what was 'on' Caylee when she died, only that certain clothes were found with the remains. IF she had found Caylee drowned in the pool, I think it's not unreasonable to think that she may have first got her out and laid her by the pool, perhaps trying to revive her, and then when she realised that it was too late (because of her own negligence) she may have got the blanket, wrapped Caylee, gathered up the shorts (red flag!) put the 'bundle' plus shorts in the trunk, and hit the gas as fast as she could!

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And what about the chloroform?:waitasec:

LTUlegal said:

And what about the chloroform?:waitasec:

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IMO, the chloroform will turn out to be a red herring!

Devon said:

IMO, the chloroform will turn out to be a red herring!

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i think you're probably right, devon.

My 2 Cents...

A thin cotton T-shirt left for 6 months in the type of environment where Caylee's remains where found would literally "Vanish" - Or at the very least turn into an unrecognizable "Rag"

Any "Stitched on" or "Glued on" letters would probably remain

The collar of a shirt is usually reinforced & stitched differently so it would be stronger & therefore it would decompose last

I'd say a lot of variables would also come into play

The type of Material of the clothes, how they were manufactured, What kind of chemicals & dyes they contained, etc, etc,

AquarianEssence said:

I too, have been very disturbed by the fact that only the collar and lettering was found, along with only 4 teeth being found, and away from the skull. Perhaps all the rest were still in her skull but that isn't mentioned. If anything caused the natural disintegration of this shirt the shorts would have suffered the same. Animals would have been more attracted to the smell of the shorts than the shirt. The shorts were whole and it appears to me like the shirt was forcefully torn apart. Clorine may rot the shirt but it would the shorts too.

Regarding pesticides, I read one article that said they originally thought the PMI interval was very short but then discovered it was actually 4 months and the body had been sprayed with pesticides by the murderer to cover and stop the smell, which protected the body from normal insect activity. I'm not sure if lime would hasten decomp or counteract natural acidic activity. But what ever it would do to the shirt it would do to the shorts too.

If Casey pulled her by the shirt and tore it in a fit of rage, killed her then put her there, the rest of the shirt would be there too. She wouldn't pick up the collar without disposing of the shirt too. Animals wouldn't take the shirt and leave the shorts. The suspicious missing teeth, the missing shirt, the ducktape all sound more like a rape than mother murdering her child to me. How many children are missing, all within driving distance, not yet found in Florida at this time? Don't serial killers usually keep something as a memento? If someone wanted to really teach Casey a lesson wouldn't putting her daughter very close to home with the words "Big Trouble comes in small packages" be the perfect signature to get the message across? She is clearly in big trouble now. Finding this shirt body, I'm sure would be key evidence to connect the murder to the murderer.

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I always thought the duct tape with heart, the message on the shirt, Caylee being packaged like the message on the shirt, deposited where she was, etc, could have been a message to Casey, and agree with many points you raise here as possibilities. I've also never ruled out the possibility that this was an attack on Caylee by someone other than Casey.

I didn't follow this thread earlier, just found it now, and happy to find it because I've always been bothered by all the same points about the shirt that everyone has raised here!

I always wondered what happened to the rest of the shirt, was enough decomposed fabric fiber found to account for it or does it appear to have never been at the scene? Did the damage to the shirt occur after death or before? If before, what could have caused it, mauled by babysitter or friend's dog? Fire? Chlorine? Torn when grabbed? Torn off deliberately? etc. Or did it just disintegrate after the body was dumped, was it torn during animal predation or whatever, leaving only the collar area. But again like you say Aquarian, why not the shorts. Or was it dissolved by something poured or sprinkled on body to hasten decomp/skeletonization... why not the shorts....) It will be very interesting to see what DNA and forensics come out in regard to the remaining scraps of the shirt. Was it only the collar (which might be in a different fabric) itself that remained, or the whole collar area with some fabric from the shirt itself? What was the edge like etc, what chemicals or residues present, etc.

Caylee does appear younger in the photo to me, shorter hair etc...but it's true that she has a lot of teeth in the photo. Wonder how old she was? If Rev Grund took it then maybe she was quite a bit younger? (I don't know if he's the one who took the photo.)

Princess Rose also mentioned to me (maybe also posted here, I haven't read the entire thread yet, hope you don't mind me quoting you PR but wanted to give credit) that in the video where she's wearing the shorts, she is quite a bit younger also, Casey has the short haircut etc, and it's true.

So, I'm left wondering, was she still dressed in these clothes often in Spring/Summer 2008 or was it unusual for her to be back in these clothes at that age, etc.... and where did the rest of the shirt go.

Gosh, were only 4 teeth left attached to the skull? I only remember reading that one tooth was found somewhere else amongst the remains, one of the incisors. For some reason I had been thinking the others were all still there. I'm going to have to go look at that again. If only 4 teeth remained attached and one was loose in the remains, that would leave a lot of teeth unaccounted for, wouldn't it. OK, off to check...

I think the collar held up better to the elements, but would love to hear more from an expert. A shread of clothing can maybe tell a story.

The fact that this little girl was packaged in such fashion is bizarre - the duct tape, with a heart, the shirt with the message - it seems like a feeble attempt to copy several movies one has seen. This staged disposal of Caylee is further disgrace beyond the murder of her. Horrifying. Cindy asked Casey, "What have you done?"

im sorry if this has already been talked about....im really behind on stuff here....but i just seen this....

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21184243/detail.html
at the top of the page it says

*together read "BIG TROUBLE comes small"*
*Several items that appeared to be part of a child's pull up pants*

then it goes on to talk about the skull, duct tape...etc.....

then...

at the very bottom of the page after all the other stuff.....and a couple pics.....and then it goes on to talk about the southernmost outside shed and then you would have to continue onto the next page....but....it has a note at the bottom of the page
it says, with a black line above it...............

*NOTE: The word "packages" was found at the scene where the bags were recovered*.

does this mean that part of Caylee's shirt ( the iron on word "packages") was found inside the garage at the Anothonys house while they were searching and found the laundry bag and black plastic bag?

if its true and it was found at the home....yikes...that ties the crime scene to the house!!

TakeNote said:

im sorry if this has already been talked about....im really behind on stuff here....but i just seen this....

http://www.co.grays-harbor.wa.us/info/sheriff/index.htm
at the top of the page it says

*together read "BIG TROUBLE comes small"*
*Several items that appeared to be part of a child's pull up pants*

then it goes on to talk about the skull, duct tape...etc.....

then...

at the very bottom of the page after all the other stuff.....and a couple pics.....and then it goes on to talk about the southernmost outside shed and then you would have to continue onto the next page....but....it has a note at the bottom of the page
it says, with a black line above it...............

*NOTE: The word "packages" was found at the scene where the bags were recovered*.

does this mean that part of Caylee's shirt ( the iron on word "packages") was found inside the garage at the Anothonys house while they were searching and found the laundry bag and black plastic bag?

if its true and it was found at the home....yikes...that ties the crime scene to the house!!

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The "scene" referring to crime scene was in the wooded area off of Suburban. I think they are trying to say the word packages was found there. JMO.

i had the wrong linked....changed it above on my post

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21184243/detail.html

i know some of the letters big trouble and others were found at the scene where caylee was found....but i dont remember the world *packages* was found...but i maybe wrong.....

why would they have added that at the bottom, instead up at the top with the other letters/words? that were found?

i dont know just asking

Maybe it was found after they did the orginal report? I'm really not sure, but the "scene" to me means "crime scene" JMO. When they are talking about the A's house they say "the home". I honestly think "packages" was found at a later time than the original letters. JMO.

TakeNote said:

im sorry if this has already been talked about....im really behind on stuff here....but i just seen this....

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21184243/detail.html
at the top of the page it says

*together read "BIG TROUBLE comes small"*
*Several items that appeared to be part of a child's pull up pants*

then it goes on to talk about the skull, duct tape...etc.....

then...

at the very bottom of the page after all the other stuff.....and a couple pics.....and then it goes on to talk about the southernmost outside shed and then you would have to continue onto the next page....but....it has a note at the bottom of the page
it says, with a black line above it...............

*NOTE: The word "packages" was found at the scene where the bags were recovered*.

does this mean that part of Caylee's shirt ( the iron on word "packages") was found inside the garage at the Anothonys house while they were searching and found the laundry bag and black plastic bag?

if its true and it was found at the home....yikes...that ties the crime scene to the house!!

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I think you have the wrong link above, but never-the-less, I think they mean the word "packages" was found at the scene where Caylee's remains were found, in the bags.

I really need to learn to refresh the page before I make a post! LOL! Sorry guys.

If this has been discussed, mods, please remove.
On page 6, item 15 here
http://www.wesh.com/download/2009/1009/21250069.pdf
It says that the words "packages" and "in" were found at the crime scene while the other words of the phrase "big trouble comes in small packages" were found with the body. This is the first I have heard of the letters being found at 2 different places. What is the crime scene they are referring to? The Pontiac? The Anthony home? Furthermore it says they theorize that Caylee was placed in this shirt because of what it says.

In reading further I think they could have all been found at the location where the body was found but the words "packages" and "in" were not in the bags the body was disposed in and the other words were. It does appear that the letters were all separated, I find it curious that 2 entire words were not with the other words, if the letters came apart from the shirt I would think random letters could have been spread about but not entire words.

I wonder if detectives came to the conclusion that Caylee was deliberately placed in that shirt because of the description George gave of what Caylee was wearing when he last saw her on the 16 th.?