Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - #6

Status
Not open for further replies.
My gosh, you people really believe StaceyK's theory about this couple???
WTH? I thought this place was for realistic theories:waitasec:
 
My gosh, you people really believe StaceyK's theory about this couple???
WTH? I thought this place was for realistic theories:waitasec:
Hopefully, unless there's anything solid that links FDF to the Mystery Couple besides the coincidence of Floyd's sister's residence, thoughts along that line can go in the Sharon Marshall thread. Those people over there are experts on where Floyd was at various times and the people with whom he associated.
 
My gosh, you people really believe StaceyK's theory about this couple???
WTH? I thought this place was for realistic theories:waitasec:
StaceyK is entitled to her thoughts, opinions and theories just like you are.

Some might agree with her, others might not but that's the beauty of having these forums...for friendly discussions.

Maz

:cow:
 
My gosh, you people really believe StaceyK's theory about this couple???
WTH? I thought this place was for realistic theories:waitasec:


I agree! Some of the theories and "guessing" on here lately is ridiculous. Its not helping the case at all. Its hurting it if anything.
 
I am just injecting a possible connection to the case. FDF is a very crafty guy. No one has been able to identify Sharon Marshall, and no one has been able to identify Jock & Jane Doe. There is a link between the area of J & J Doe's discovery and a man who is a known murderer and con artist (FDF).

Ideas:

1. What if FDF took J&J Doe's baby?
2. What if someone sold a baby?
3. What if FDF assumed Jock's identity during that time period?
4. Could J & J Doe have been involved in FDF's prison church?
5. There are several unexplained deaths related to FDF other than Sharon Marshall (in his family)
6. He was involved in a Florida murder of a young girl other than Sharon Marshall (Cheryl Comesso).

mayfairlight - you need to look up the Sharon Marshall threads here. Franklin Delano Floyd is capable of ANYTHING. He managed to completely obliterate the identity of a young girl for her entire life time and she is still unidentified. He got away with MANY crimes for YEARS.

Suggested Read: "A Beautiful Child" by Matthew Birkbick
http://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Beautiful-Child/75779387367

This site is about bouncing around ideas and clues. I found a connection and think we should explore this. We investigate here.
 
Mysterylover

I cannot acces the site.

Do you have a better link? I cannot find her.
 
I found Jennifer Klein


Jennifer Klein ("Jenny")


MISSING SINCE: 5/25/1974
DOB: 5/14/1971
AGE: (3 at time of disappearance)
HEIGHT: 3' 2" (at time of disappearance)
WEIGHT: 35 lbs (at time of disappearance)
HAIR: Brown
EYES: Blue
RACE: White

CONTACT: Detective Curt Brewer with Grand County (Utah) Sheriff's Office (435) 259-8115

MISSING ENDANGERED: Jennifer Klein ("Jenny") was last seen with her family when they were camped at a campground approximately ten miles north of Moab, Utah. The campground was in the trees and there was a path through the woods that led to the river. There were several people (adults and children) who were out by the river. The campground was full because it was the Memorial Day weekend. Jennifer's father, Howard had gone back to the camper for something and Jenny was playing in the sand. There was a dogfight and everyone turned their attention to the dogs. When Jennifer's mother and brother (five years old at time of disappearance) turned back around Jennifer was gone.

Some of the people in the campground appeared to be transients and they were never questioned. One of the questionable vehicles was an old car parked between the Klein camper and the river. The family doesn't remember anyone at the campground being interviewed. Mr. and Mrs. Klein think that the area was used for both overnight camping and day use.

Jennifer had just turned three and weighed approximately 35 pounds. She was about 3'2" tall. She had a distinctive cowlick on the right side of her forehead and a birthmark on her stomach---possibly on the left side.

Contact the Grand County Utah Sheriff's Office at 435-259-8115 with any information.
HOTLINE: 1-888-770-6477 - Telephone (Daytime): 1-801-965-4686
I agree she is a good match.

However, I do not want to mix up the J&J Doe thread with the Sharon Marshal thread, so I will stop posting here.

Just want all you J&J Doe peeps to keep this in mind!
 
I found Jennifer Klein


Jennifer Klein ("Jenny")


MISSING SINCE: 5/25/1974
DOB: 5/14/1971
AGE: (3 at time of disappearance)
HEIGHT: 3' 2" (at time of disappearance)
WEIGHT: 35 lbs (at time of disappearance)
HAIR: Brown
EYES: Blue
RACE: White

CONTACT: Detective Curt Brewer with Grand County (Utah) Sheriff's Office (435) 259-8115

MISSING ENDANGERED: Jennifer Klein ("Jenny") was last seen with her family when they were camped at a campground approximately ten miles north of Moab, Utah. The campground was in the trees and there was a path through the woods that led to the river. There were several people (adults and children) who were out by the river. The campground was full because it was the Memorial Day weekend. Jennifer's father, Howard had gone back to the camper for something and Jenny was playing in the sand. There was a dogfight and everyone turned their attention to the dogs. When Jennifer's mother and brother (five years old at time of disappearance) turned back around Jennifer was gone.

Some of the people in the campground appeared to be transients and they were never questioned. One of the questionable vehicles was an old car parked between the Klein camper and the river. The family doesn't remember anyone at the campground being interviewed. Mr. and Mrs. Klein think that the area was used for both overnight camping and day use.

Jennifer had just turned three and weighed approximately 35 pounds. She was about 3'2" tall. She had a distinctive cowlick on the right side of her forehead and a birthmark on her stomach---possibly on the left side.

Contact the Grand County Utah Sheriff's Office at 435-259-8115 with any information.
HOTLINE: 1-888-770-6477 - Telephone (Daytime): 1-801-965-4686
I agree she is a good match.

However, I do not want to mix up the J&J Doe thread with the Sharon Marshal thread, so I will stop posting here.

Just want all you J&J Doe peeps to keep this in mind!

Jennifer Klein has already been ruled out as being Sharon Marshall according to that thread.
 
StaceyK, I do not need to look up the threads about Sharon, I have followed her case for a long time. I'm sorry if I offended you or anyone else with my posts here, I just personally think you are wrong, and I still can not see the connection here. We are all here for the same thing, in the end... If we have different means then so be it. I'll keep following this thread until this case is solved and these kids are identified. As I'm sure you will...
Thanks for thinking outside the box, as they say... just not my box
 
So does anyone want to volunteer to call the Edmonton, Alberta PD to find out their progress with the Sumter dna?

Not that I think there's a match. I'd just be curious as to what Sumter had to say, as in where they'd sent the mystery couple's dna if in fact they actually sent it anywhere.

Let's see. So far we've had reports they sent it to their state lab. Then there was the report it went to a lab in Ft. Worth, Tx., and last I recall it had been sent to the lab at NTSU.

Is this a shell game?
 
I'm not physically able to call anyone, but I would like to know as well.

Personally though... I think it's a shell game, yes; there is no DNA.
 
I don't know where you are in this case, I am still on thread 1, reading and taking notes, but I wanted to put this out there and I hope it doesn't derail anyone. And sorry if it's been suggested, but bear with me.

The dentals are weird. Very weird. She had fillings in all her back teeth, which points to lax dental care at one time. He had a mouth full of dental work, the expensive kind that has to be done after a lot of dental neglect.
Someone spent a lot of money on their teeth, or rather, their appearances. He did still have that bad tooth, but it only would have been visible when he smiled, if I am picturing it right.
They had their jewelry, gold watch, flashy rings, items that reek of wealth, yet inexpensive clothing. Doesn't mean much, but in perspective...
Also, her jewelry was reported as being considered "costume". More appearances.
The almost mafia style in which they were killed, with the lack of sexual assault.
The fact that they seem to be wealthy, yet were never reported. (As far as anyone can tell, at this point.)
The fact that their killer did not seem to be concerned with the matches in the man's pocket, yet they had no cash and no ID. (Do we have any indication that the pockets were gone through after death?)
The story about his father being a Canadian doctor, which sounds like something pulled off a mystery movie, and I don't buy for a second, but does show they had well rehearsed stories about who they were and from there they came. IMO.
The manner in which they were killed and dumped, minimal time, minimal effort.

Working theory, and I ran this by a friend at INTERPOL, she thinks it possible, given the practices of the day, these two may have been recruiters, either for drugs or prostitution.
The country was in a state of celebration, those that even bothered to have their guard up at the time, had dropped it a little. Both Does had someone sink a lot of work and cash into their appearances.
I don't believe that they were wealthy, I think they just had to give the impression, it was their job. Think about where we know they were: the coast, FL, truck stops in the Midwest, all places where runaways congregate. I believe they may have been looking for just those runaways.
They may have been recruiting drug mules, they may have been recruiting for prostitution either here or abroad, but I am 99%, based on what we have about them, that this is what they were doing.

They either were not producing the required numbers, or they tried to run, or they didn't bring in the amount of product that they were supposed to, but I am sure that it was an illegal employment situation, and their employer killed them.
The party that I talked to at INTERPOL said that today, you don't see as many recruiters, most of the time, those in the drug or sex trade, especially those going overseas, are not coerced, they are simply forced, but in 1975, it would have been much more common for the pimps and dealers to have a couple people on the payroll that did nothing but look good, talk a lot, and bring more people into the organization. She also said that these two would have fit the profile and their murder would have fit the profile of a cartel or sex ring. It also would explain to her why they have lain with no names for as long as they have. She even went far enough as to say that the matches could have been left simply because the killer saw no reason to go through their pockets. It's very likely that the only money they received, they got from their employer, or handler stateside. They never would have had ID in the first place.

None of this makes them any less victims in my mind, they were young people, and were very possibly escaping bad situations of their own, but I have wracked my brains and nothing else fits. And, you know, me and zebras.
 
I encourage you to go through the rest of the threads and take more notes. Your analysis so far is spot on. A lot has been made of the account of the KOA man regarding what he learned from John Doe. Your points regarding that ring true to me. The only thing that really bothers me about that is that the KOA man reported all of it a year later (I don't recall if he went to the police or if they came to him). I wonder why he came forward with the story in the first place because divulging it hardly seemed necessary.
 
Two random observations: Reading more, especially about Jock, makes me think that he was not wealthy.
He has scars, this is not a pampered boy, nor a man that was pampered as a boy. That is just what his body tells me. Also, the KOA worker, he says that he and Jock were friends, rich guys usually would avoid the guys that clean the porta johns.

I don't know if the unshaven legs indicates anything at all, but I would think that if they had been travelling on foot or hitching in August, she would have shaved them simply to keep cool. That would be assuming that they were tidying up at campgrounds and in public washrooms, but even that doesn't fit, because they didn't have "road grime", if they did, they wouldn't be noted as "very clean".
Therefore, my personal assumption is that they had a vehicle or were living in the local area, or had at least a home base location, with full washroom facilities. In the pictures, her hair looks clean, just the way that it falls, and while it's possible she was washed down before the pictures were taken, she wasn't washed and shampooed. They weren't just cleaning up in truck stops, which makes me wonder if there was a hotel room somewhere.

Also, is there any mention anywhere of how old the dental work was? If it was something that had been worked on for many years, as in ongoing care, or was it just started a few years prior to their deaths? I think this could be a helpful tidbit.
 
I don't know where you are in this case, I am still on thread 1, reading and taking notes, but I wanted to put this out there and I hope it doesn't derail anyone. And sorry if it's been suggested, but bear with me.

The dentals are weird. Very weird. She had fillings in all her back teeth, which points to lax dental care at one time. He had a mouth full of dental work, the expensive kind that has to be done after a lot of dental neglect.
Someone spent a lot of money on their teeth, or rather, their appearances. He did still have that bad tooth, but it only would have been visible when he smiled, if I am picturing it right.
They had their jewelry, gold watch, flashy rings, items that reek of wealth, yet inexpensive clothing. Doesn't mean much, but in perspective...
Also, her jewelry was reported as being considered "costume". More appearances.
The almost mafia style in which they were killed, with the lack of sexual assault.
The fact that they seem to be wealthy, yet were never reported. (As far as anyone can tell, at this point.)
The fact that their killer did not seem to be concerned with the matches in the man's pocket, yet they had no cash and no ID. (Do we have any indication that the pockets were gone through after death?)
The story about his father being a Canadian doctor, which sounds like something pulled off a mystery movie, and I don't buy for a second, but does show they had well rehearsed stories about who they were and from there they came. IMO.
The manner in which they were killed and dumped, minimal time, minimal effort.

Working theory, and I ran this by a friend at INTERPOL, she thinks it possible, given the practices of the day, these two may have been recruiters, either for drugs or prostitution.
The country was in a state of celebration, those that even bothered to have their guard up at the time, had dropped it a little. Both Does had someone sink a lot of work and cash into their appearances.
I don't believe that they were wealthy, I think they just had to give the impression, it was their job. Think about where we know they were: the coast, FL, truck stops in the Midwest, all places where runaways congregate. I believe they may have been looking for just those runaways.
They may have been recruiting drug mules, they may have been recruiting for prostitution either here or abroad, but I am 99%, based on what we have about them, that this is what they were doing.

They either were not producing the required numbers, or they tried to run, or they didn't bring in the amount of product that they were supposed to, but I am sure that it was an illegal employment situation, and their employer killed them.
The party that I talked to at INTERPOL said that today, you don't see as many recruiters, most of the time, those in the drug or sex trade, especially those going overseas, are not coerced, they are simply forced, but in 1975, it would have been much more common for the pimps and dealers to have a couple people on the payroll that did nothing but look good, talk a lot, and bring more people into the organization. She also said that these two would have fit the profile and their murder would have fit the profile of a cartel or sex ring. It also would explain to her why they have lain with no names for as long as they have. She even went far enough as to say that the matches could have been left simply because the killer saw no reason to go through their pockets. It's very likely that the only money they received, they got from their employer, or handler stateside. They never would have had ID in the first place.

None of this makes them any less victims in my mind, they were young people, and were very possibly escaping bad situations of their own, but I have wracked my brains and nothing else fits. And, you know, me and zebras.


In my opinion 99% is a great stretch. I would likely put it much below 1%, based on what we know!
 
Two random observations: Reading more, especially about Jock, makes me think that he was not wealthy.
He has scars, this is not a pampered boy, nor a man that was pampered as a boy. That is just what his body tells me. Also, the KOA worker, he says that he and Jock were friends, rich guys usually would avoid the guys that clean the porta johns.

I don't know if the unshaven legs indicates anything at all, but I would think that if they had been travelling on foot or hitching in August, she would have shaved them simply to keep cool. That would be assuming that they were tidying up at campgrounds and in public washrooms, but even that doesn't fit, because they didn't have "road grime", if they did, they wouldn't be noted as "very clean".
Therefore, my personal assumption is that they had a vehicle or were living in the local area, or had at least a home base location, with full washroom facilities. In the pictures, her hair looks clean, just the way that it falls, and while it's possible she was washed down before the pictures were taken, she wasn't washed and shampooed. They weren't just cleaning up in truck stops, which makes me wonder if there was a hotel room somewhere.

Also, is there any mention anywhere of how old the dental work was? If it was something that had been worked on for many years, as in ongoing care, or was it just started a few years prior to their deaths? I think this could be a helpful tidbit.

One of the scars is a 2 inch scar. I was a pampered boy and I have bigger scars than that. The other was from appendectomy surgery.
 
One of the scars is a 2 inch scar. I was a pampered boy and I have bigger scars than that. The other was from appendectomy surgery.

He had three scars from the reports I am seeing and I am aware that one was an appendectomy scar. And although that observation is based partially on scars, it's also based on the dental work, which, admittedly, would tell me more if I knew when it was done. But I haven't seen that anywhere.
 
you know, just this week i was pondering again & 'drug mules' popped into my head. it makes sense.

i did mention on another page, probably part 2 or 3, that in the 70s, i went on a lot of road trips with my parents & we stayed in KOAs all over...many, if not most, had showering facilities & i remember using them!

also, her jewelry--not so expensive really. i used to wear a lot of mexican/native american turquoise jewelry from the mid-70s & i was just a teenager in the suburbs...some was/is very expensive, yes, but other pieces weren't/aren't. looking at hers, it looks nominally priced.

great stuff, not_my_kids, thanks :)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
211
Guests online
3,520
Total visitors
3,731

Forum statistics

Threads
592,252
Messages
17,966,205
Members
228,733
Latest member
jbks
Back
Top