WA WA - Shantina Smiley, 29, & Azriel Carver, 8 (fnd deceased), Olympia, Mar 2010 - #6

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I hope you won't hold that against publications as most so-called mainstream newspapers have an online edition. Just because a "paper" is on newsprint does not give their articles more credence. What is wrong with an on-line newspaper? It's the wave of the future.

The Examiner is not an online newpaper. It's one of a wave of new paid blog sites. People sign up to blog, and they get paid by the click, and typically get bonuses for certain numbers of clicks.

If you read the analyses of these paid blog sites, you'll see that they're known for being fraught with inaccuracies, and seeded with numerous keywords (the more keywords, the more search hits, the more clicks, the more payments). Indeed, some of these sites overall, and some of the bloggers on these sites, use a sensationalistic, tabloidesque style in which accuracy in reporting is far less of a consideration than grabbing attention to get people to click through.

These paid blog sites simply do not have the same journalistic standards that traditional mainstream media news sites have.

Google had been including them in their News search (which was driving me crazy!), and just recently I noticed that they're dropping them out of the News search one by one.

Myself and some of the other mods have been cautioning our members about relying on these sites as source references. Some mods disallow linking to blogs in some of our forums. Members and guests rely on WS as a source of reliable information, and in general, because blogs are not held to the same journalistic standards as MSM media news sites, they are not sources of reliable information.

As with anything else, some of the sites overall are not as bad as others so far as inaccuracies; some of the bloggers are not as bad as other so far as inaccuracies.

It's a matter of 'buyer beware' so to speak. Read them and consider them as you would any other blog, with the added caution that these particular blogs are heavily geared toward getting you to click through to them. In general, we don't use blogs as credible source reference links at WS - we use MSM, court documents, etc.

ETA: Now let's all please get back on topic - this case.
 
http://ww.examiner.com/x-34328-Seat...no-foul-play-suspected-Shantina-still-missing

It was also brought up on the other thread by some who felt these items weren't found together, but rather here and there as the person walked along the beach. The Deputy indicates they WERE found together:



He's been involved in the investigation. If he says they were found in the same location, they were.

He's been involved in the investigation, and he says there's no evidence of a crime too.

When should LE in this case to be considered incompetent and their statements discarded, and when should they be considered competent and their statements accepted?
 
. . . I think the Van was supposed to have been washed away and been found later. . . .

I would like for investigators to try to recreate the time and tides. With a painted test dummy to his weight let the tide drift and see where it would have washed up. If it does not come up on Fox Island, then it can be determined after a couple tests that he was intentionally dumped from another location.
(Snipped by SMK)
This is very interesting, as I have wondered often about this last part. Now that Chamberlain mentions what he does about the items found, and their leaving the van, it more or less negates the falling asleep and being awakened by high tide theory. This case has so many twists and turns....
 
He's been involved in the investigation, and he says there's no evidence of a crime too.

When should LE in this case to be considered incompetent and their statements discarded, and when should they be considered competent and their statements accepted?

I don't think I've said there is evidence of a crime.

There's a difference between saying they have no evidence of a crime and LE ruling it out altogether. Perhaps I missed it, but I haven't heard him say that yet. At the very least, I'd hope they'd wait until the final results come back on Azriel's autopsy. Of course, finding Shantina would go a long way to putting this to rest.
 
I don't think I've said there is evidence of a crime.

There's a difference between saying they have no evidence of a crime and LE ruling it out altogether. Perhaps I missed it, but I haven't heard him say that yet. At the very least, I'd hope they'd wait until the final results come back on Azriel's autopsy. Of course, finding Shantina would go a long way to putting this to rest.
(Bold/Italics mine - SMK) Yes, who knows what new twist might emerge if SS herself were to be found. Even RS is envisioning her in a basement somewhere. It is hard to imagine , now, their being simply caught by high tide, in this new scenario in which Chamberlain has them out of the van, near the house that was pounded on at 1 am. ( I believe he placed the items with SS and AC some 50-60 yards below the house). To me, this tears through the sleeping/surprised theory. And places more suspicion re the backed up van.....And makes one wonder more, not less, how the poor child managed to drown, and what has become of his mother.....Where on earth is Shantina?
 
(Bold/Italics mine - SMK) Yes, who knows what new twist might emerge if SS herself were to be found. Even RS is envisioning her in a basement somewhere. It is hard to imagine , now, their being simply caught by high tide, in this new scenario in which Chamberlain has them out of the van, near the house that was pounded on at 1 am. ( I believe he placed the items with SS and AC some 50-60 yards below the house). To me, this tears through the sleeping/surprised theory. And places more suspicion re the backed up van.....And makes one wonder more, not less, how the poor child managed to drown, and what has become of his mother.....Where on earth is Shantina?

What if it wasn't SS or Azriel who banged on the side of the house that night?
 
I spoke with Chief Criminal Deputy Jim Chamberlain on Friday and the information in the article is the information he provided to me. I have covered this case since Shantina and her son went missing.

It is my understanding, as well, that online news publications are the wave of the future.

Isabelle Zehnder
www.seattleheadlinesexaminer.com
Ms. Zehnder:
I have left remarks on the comments section of your piece, thanking you for your fine journalism. Your interview with Chamberlain has for me almost wholly negated the original theory as set forth by Lt. Chris Mealy of the Thurston County Sheriff's office, that the two were parked sleeping in the van, and surprised by high tide.

It has cast new suspicion on the child's drowning, raising for me red flags of when/where/how/why?

It has made Shantina's vanishing more suspect in my mind, and raised new questions about the position of the van.

I was formerly the Morris County Political Examiner in New Jersey, and I am aware that most examiners, like myself, have backgrounds in reporting, professional writing, and journalism, and I , like you, went through the application process, background check, training etc.

I know how Google has made key words and clicks a new obsession even with the New York Times, that bastillion of journalistic ethics! You are a darned good writer, and keep on doing what you do so well! :dance:
 
What if it wasn't SS or Azriel who banged on the side of the house that night?
Right: Their scent was never found, leading a reasonable person to surmise that someone was with them.
 
Right: Their scent was never found, leading a reasonable person to surmise that someone was with them.
And what if they were being confronted or chased by someone? This scenario is what the Examiner piece, and the interview with Chamberlain, has raised for me. If he now says these items did not wash up, but were dropped, some 50-60 yards beneath the home which was pounded on at 12/1 am, near the stairs which lead up, then the idea of SS and Az sleeping in the van becomes a non-issue. They were out, but why? To what purpose? Who dropped the items? Were they running from some pursuer? This is what I myself would like to pose to Chamberlain, ask him if his own mind has posed these questions, and why/why not.....Because in my own mind, this new assertion of Chamberlain's points almost necessarily in the direction of a chase, a confrontation.....
 
I wonder what ever happened to that arial view picture, of the wooden stairs leading up to that residence? I know I saw it on one of the threads early on. . .was this the one at 8520 Island View Drive NE ?? :waitasec:

Did get an arial view on Google Maps Street Search, which shows beach and aprox where house would have been, do not know if this will link (cannot copy pic):http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=&layer=c&cbll=40.758437,-73.985164&cbp=11,42.04,,0,-6.66&ie=UTF8&om=1&panoid=s_TY766yv4kWDddHKN8OVQ&t=h&ll=40.75844,-73.985195&spn=0.042649,0.174923&z=13&utm_campaign=en&utm_medium=ha&utm_source=en-ha-na-us-bk-svn&utm_term={keyword}No, it appears it does not link, I guess anybody who wants to could go to Google Street views and type in Island View Drive NE Olympia WA
 
"In a phone interview with Chief Criminal Deputy Jim Chamberlain Friday, he told Examiner.com . . . "
Right, in my past work as a news reporter, most interviews are conducted via phone. I think the Chief Criminal deputy has really turned the case, perhaps without knowing it, or at least without much fanfare....For me, in my unprofessional opinion (as I am merely a writer; I claim to nothing else ) everything hinges on this new clarity about the items not washing but depositing (as in dropping?) at this location 50-60 yards down the incline of the Grimmer house which reported the 1 am banging on the side of the house (a rural home on NE Island View Drive)---this so, so puts to rest the sleeping and swept away by high tide scenario, and makes me envision a chase down the beach on foot, during some kind of confrontation with a third party--I don't know why, but this really "turned a key" for me, in my own thinking....
 
Professional Posters

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Basically if any information from a particular poster is to be given more weight based on the fact that they claim to have special knowledge in any one area, we need to confirm it for the posting membership.

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If someone posts with "expertise", and they are not verified, do not assume they are an expert, but rather use your own judgement as to how much weight you would like to give it.

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Thanks!
BeanE
 
And what if they were being confronted or chased by someone? This scenario is what the Examiner piece, and the interview with Chamberlain, has raised for me. If he now says these items did not wash up, but were dropped, some 50-60 yards beneath the home which was pounded on at 12/1 am, near the stairs which lead up, then the idea of SS and Az sleeping in the van becomes a non-issue. They were out, but why? To what purpose? Who dropped the items? Were they running from some pursuer? This is what I myself would like to pose to Chamberlain, ask him if his own mind has posed these questions, and why/why not.....

That they left the van and walked down the beach resolves the question of them being swept away in their sleep (which IMO never made a lick of sense), but it raises a ton of other questions. Why did they leave and take off in that direction rather than the way they came? Was it a matter of her continuing her bizarre, wandering behaviour as seen with her driving? Was she THAT directionally-challenged? The area was about a mile down the beach, so what did they pass along the way? Her purse and bag were missing from the van (if she indeed had those items to begin with), so where are they now? Why hasn't LE or Robb given a description of the purse and bag?

Did she carry Azriel's inhaler and spacer in her bag or purse? I can see him having the MDI in his pocket, but the spacer would have been too bulky (IMO) and I think it's more likely she had packed it in one of her bags. Is it possible that after all that had happened throughout the night and then traveling that far down the beach he had an attack at or near the area where the items were found, she digs the inhaler and spacer out of her bag for him to use? Were his asthma attacks ever exercise-induced? Would a walk that far have triggered it? Or a run?

BTW, has there been any report of fingerprints or DNA found on the wine bottle?
 
Right, in my past work as a news reporter, most interviews are conducted via phone. I think the Chief Criminal deputy has really turned the case, perhaps without knowing it, or at least without much fanfare....For me, in my unprofessional opinion (as I am merely a writer; I claim to nothing else ) everything hinges on this new clarity about the items not washing but depositing (as in dropping?) at this location 50-60 yards down the incline of the Grimmer house which reported the 1 am banging on the side of the house (a rural home on NE Island View Drive)---this so, so puts to rest the sleeping and swept away by high tide scenario, and makes me envision a chase down the beach on foot, during some kind of confrontation with a third party--I don't know why, but this really "turned a key" for me, in my own thinking....

I think it makes it clear they haven't (as I had feared) written this off as a bizarre accident, that perhaps they ARE keeping an open mind to other possibilities.
 
Professional Posters

We are lucky enough to have posters from all walks of life with a broad spectrum of expertise and/or some may have special inside knowledge about a case. This is all extremely valuable information for the forum.

But, we like to make sure that anyone posting as a professional in a specific area truly is what/who they claim to be. This is not a new rule and has always been the case.

Basically if any information from a particular poster is to be given more weight based on the fact that they claim to have special knowledge in any one area, we need to confirm it for the posting membership.

We ask that posters that are posting with expertise in a specific area contact Tricia so she can confirm their credentials. This is 100% voluntary and no one is ever required to reveal their true identity unless they want to post as an expert. Please know that Tricia does not reveal ANYONE'S identity if you should choose to be confirmed by her.

We just want to make sure that if posters rely on information posted by someone with special training, that they do actually have that training.

If someone posts with "expertise", and they are not verified, do not assume they are an expert, but rather use your own judgement as to how much weight you would like to give it.

If you would like to add youself as an expert in a certain field or an insider to a case, please contact Tricia.

Thanks!
BeanE
This is interesting and informative, but I myself, unfortunately, would never consider listing myself as a professional with any expertise within a Websleuth forum (I am merely someone who worked in the 1990s as reporter/feature article writer for Tucker Publishing in Hunterdon County, NJ ( a small publication) and now works as a press agent for Gnosis Arts Multimedia in Bedminster, NJ, and as a part time producer with Now Public Media. None of which gives me a lick of professionalism in police work :( ) In terms of conducting interviews via phone (as I assume it was my comment regarding this which prompted your reply post) anyone who has had the misfortune to work in free-lance writing can tell you of hours spent playing phone tag to conduct interviews. Please note that I said I am a writer, and therfore wholly UNprofessional when it come to offering anything other than my :twocents: to Websleuths!! Thanks!!:gomods:
 
I would also like to say that much of my own passion about this case - in particular, the last bit of info gleaned from the Examiner piece - rests on intuition, which can in no way be called professional. In this sense, I rely on the much more logical minds I have encountered on Websleuth's, to more or less confirm what I have "hunches" about. So I am a follower, and no leader. I do believe there have been opened new possibilities by the confirmation by Chamberlain of this last info, but that is me, only, in a burst of enthusiasm, thinking aloud: Opinion, passion, that is about it!!
 
That they left the van and walked down the beach resolves the question of them being swept away in their sleep (which IMO never made a lick of sense), but it raises a ton of other questions. Why did they leave and take off in that direction rather than the way they came? Was it a matter of her continuing her bizarre, wandering behaviour as seen with her driving? Was she THAT directionally-challenged? The area was about a mile down the beach, so what did they pass along the way? Her purse and bag were missing from the van (if she indeed had those items to begin with), so where are they now? Why hasn't LE or Robb given a description of the purse and bag?

Did she carry Azriel's inhaler and spacer in her bag or purse? I can see him having the MDI in his pocket, but the spacer would have been too bulky (IMO) and I think it's more likely she had packed it in one of her bags. Is it possible that after all that had happened throughout the night and then traveling that far down the beach he had an attack at or near the area where the items were found, she digs the inhaler and spacer out of her bag for him to use? Were his asthma attacks ever exercise-induced? Would a walk that far have triggered it? Or a run?

BTW, has there been any report of fingerprints or DNA found on the wine bottle?
I had been wondering about many of these points myself: If DNA were or could be feasibly lifted from items like the wine bottle; if SS were disoriented in her beach ramblings as well; if there is any description of the overnight bag and purse....Would love to get more details, and/or to reach out in order to do so, if possible.
 
I had been wondering about many of these points myself: If DNA were or could be feasibly lifted from items like the wine bottle; if SS were disoriented in her beach ramblings as well; if there is any description of the overnight bag and purse....Would love to get more details, and/or to reach out in order to do so, if possible.

Since it was felt she took a purse and overnight bag with her and neither was found in the van, it would be helpful if they would release a description.

Did they attempt to get any DNA samples from the woman's shoe? What about the man's shoe? Could it be that three people washed out with the tide that night?
 
Since it was felt she took a purse and overnight bag with her and neither was found in the van, it would be helpful if they would release a description.

Did they attempt to get any DNA samples from the woman's shoe? What about the man's shoe? Could it be that three people washed out with the tide that night?
Yes, the man's shoe always irked me, it is a puzzle!!:waitasec:
 
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