Another New Lawyer for Casey - Dorothy Sims

New Posts

Horace Finklestein said:
The witnesses admitted they did not know who Casey really was and that she lied to them about everything.

Caylee was abused. Dr. Green said Caylee was "savagely abused". The type and extent of abuse I do not claim to know - but Caylee was sleeping at parties, in bed with Casey's boyfriend, etc. Not stable at all. Casey did not provide for Caylee either - only Cindy and George did.

snipped

Be very careful here. Dr. Green gave his opinion based on information he had received. Another doctor could very well take the same information and come up with an entirely different opinion.

There is no evidence or proof that Caylee was abused. You might notice that neither LE nor the State Attorney's office has made any statement to that effect. I believe they say neglect in the charges. It might be a good idea to add, in his opinion, to your post.
Click to expand...
 
ExpectingUnicorns said:
If this is the case it seems more likely that she would be challenging the testimony of the mental health doctors, the psychologist or psychiatrist, rather than addressing the autopsy results. According to her many bios she does have experience in opposing charges of malingering, etc, so it does make some sense that she would search for doctors to support a theory that Casey is mentally ill. That could also explain why she needed to make a personal visit to Casey in jail. I wonder, did she bring her box with the doctor in it with her?
Click to expand...

Bingo
 
LiveLaughLuv said:
Hornsby said Sims could help spare Anthony’s life in the penalty phase of the trial.

If Anthony is found guilty, Hornsby said that the defense may present expert testimony saying that she was suffering from some sort of diminished mental capacity.

“The fact that Casey has had a psychologist or psychiatrist visit her in jail suggests the defense has their mental health mitigators in place, but they won't file their notice until the last minute,” Hornsby said.

The state gets to have its own psychological experts examine Casey and offer testimony in the case, subject to Sims cross examination.
http://www.wesh.com/r/24945864/detail.html


So, this is where the defense is heading...seems Sims tears apart medical reports but usually in workers comp cases, living people...this is a death case, could she still tear apart the autopsy report???

Justice for Caylee
Click to expand...

BBM

Perhaps she is supposed to tear apart the psychologists that will say that KC is of sound mind during the sentencing phase? My initial thoughts were that she was going to try to discredit Dr. G., but after listening to RH, I am thinking she may be there for the penalty phase if/when KC is found guilty in order to prevent the DP.

ETA: Ooops! Lol! I shoulda kept reading! Great minds and all! Hahaha! We are all on the same page!
 
If Ms Sims - and I don't use Dorothy because I immediately think of the Wizard of Oz - is here to declare Casey mentally ill during the mitigation phase, this is going to get interesting.

I've asked the question in several places including AZLawyer - what exactly are Florida's parameters for "diminished mental capacity". My understanding, from my little pea brain with no legal experience at all, is that the bar is pretty high.

Diminished mental capacity is also known as the "Twinkie Defense". You may all remember the case in California of Dan White,in a killing of the mayor of San Francisco and an other city official, who apparently killed in a state of depression, a depression both expressed and aggravated by his excessive ingestion of Twinkies and other junk food. Charged with first degree murder, he was convicted only of voluntary manslaughter.

But Florida isn't California. My understanding is the defendant must have acted with premeditation, deliberation and malice. To me the prosecution can clearly prove those things.

I was also reading some interesting segments in this administration of justice memorandum (which I can't copy because it's a pdf). This segment was arguing predetermined conditions. In other words, if ICA has had a life long "condition", the defense must produce very strong argument as to why ICA should be "excused" from this crime, when she has managed this condition, without similar offenses. Somehow a child getting in the way of your belle vita because she has begun to talk and become more independent will not be seen be a good enough excuse for killing her. The prosecution will be able to prove ICA was clearly a schemer who constantly thought up options to get around the problems in her life.

So, while I understand RHornsby is offering interesting defense options for soundbites, I'd really like him or AZLawyer or anybody who knows anything about the diminished mental capacity "rules" in Florida during the mitigation phase to please weigh in!
 
kaRN said:
Unreal!! Ms. Sims seems to suffer from grandiosity and possibly about 10 different personality disorders herself including posing as a medical Doctor which is a crime. For starters she isn't qualified to diagnose a dog let alone a psychiatric disorder.
A good junkie can modify a doctors behaviour too. Kudos to her. This woman is beginning to make me very sick.
Click to expand...

Ms. Sims states that “the really dishonest
defense medical examiners appear to have traits from one of these
three personality disorders: obsessive compulsive disorder, sociopathic
disorder or narcissistic disorder.” This is important because “smart lawyers
can predict and modify the doctors’ behavior based on an understanding of
their particular traits.” From this beginning, Ms. Sims provides specific examples
of how a lawyer can make this assessment and specific tactics and
techniques that can be used for each type.[End Quote]Bold by me.

I would think the word "appear" would mitigate any possible impropriety on her part.
Click to expand...
 
Ms Sims is working pro bono and she questions medical experts. Ms. Baden deals with forensics. The addition of Ms. Sims tells me that the defense believes that Anthony will be found guilty and the question will be the penalty.
 
LiveLaughLuv said:
Thanks LinasK for bringing me back into reality....you are right, SP was given the DP and we don't know how Laci and Conner died, so there is hope, right?

Seriously, LWOP would be far worse fate for this party girl. Just to think of the lengths she went through to have her "bella vida"! She can now have it while in la casa grande....JMHO

I also feel jurors would want to her from her own mouth in her own words why those 31 days passed and she told no one of an alleged abducted Caylee. Carried on with life as if she never had a child. She wasn't worried, she showed no concern, no alarm within her...she made things up as she went along. As GA stated, she pushes the envelope..she'll take it as far as she can go.

I just wonder what in the world Baez tells these "specialists" to have them sign on with him? Does he truly feel ICA is innocent??? Remembering what Todd Mac stated, the prosecutors still haven't been "shown" this aspect of her innocence, so where is it??? Where is this "compelling" evidence/reason to back up that claim?

When I think of the OJ trial for double homicide, there was no doubt in my mind he wasn't innocent. Too bad a certain detective went as far as to allegedly "plant" evidence and Cochran showed how racist he was...add that to my belief, they paid off a juror. As Karn stated earlier, a leather glove when it gets wet shrivels up. When OJ's hand couldn't fit in it, he was acquitted but why didn't any jurors figure out the leather and the shriveling up of it??? I think some were star dazed but ICA isn't a star. What she allegedly is accused of doing to Caylee was in itself a depraved act and since this is a baby who had been tossed like garbage, I feel those jurors will see through all those smoke and mirrors these "specialists" put out there for the hardest hurdle is those crucial 31 days...how can she explain that?? No self investigation while on stripper poles downing drinks. Watching videos while her baby was not in her care. Using money not hers while on a shopping spree at Target, JCP...which will also come into play, she's a convicted felon already...I do hope jurors use common sense and throw out of their minds anything that sounds absurd. JMHO

Justice for Caylee
Click to expand...

I understand your concern LiveLaughLove, but I hope you will remember we have come a long way since the OJ case. Even as a Canadian, I watched every minute of the OJ case on the tube, and what we all remember about the case is the not guilty verdict and that damn glove. Clearly OJ was/is guilty - no doubt in my mind. But have you forgotten the absolutely shoddy prosecution of this case? We had Marcia and what's his name spending all of their time in front of the cameras, a presentation of DNA that was unbelievably boring and completely confusing, a mess as far as the forensics, racist cops - it just went on and on :banghead::banghead:
To my mind, the weight of letting a guilty man go free rests solely on the shoulders of the prosecution and those two completely shifty lead detectives.

Thank god what we see in the SA in this case is crispness, efficiency, unbelievable organization, and two determined lead prosecutors who will bring a guilty verdict home.
 
logicalgirl said:
If Ms Sims - and I don't use Dorothy because I immediately think of the Wizard of Oz - is here to declare Casey mentally ill during the mitigation phase, this is going to get interesting.

I've asked the question in several places including AZLawyer - what exactly are Florida's parameters for "diminished mental capacity". My understanding, from my little pea brain with no legal experience at all, is that the bar is pretty high.

Diminished mental capacity is also known as the "Twinkie Defense". You may all remember the case in California of Dan White,in a killing of the mayor of San Francisco and an other city official, who apparently killed in a state of depression, a depression both expressed and aggravated by his excessive ingestion of Twinkies and other junk food. Charged with first degree murder, he was convicted only of voluntary manslaughter.

But Florida isn't California. My understanding is the defendant must have acted with premeditation, deliberation and malice. To me the prosecution can clearly prove those things.

I was also reading some interesting segments in this administration of justice memorandum (which I can't copy because it's a pdf). This segment was arguing predetermined conditions. In other words, if ICA has had a life long "condition", the defense must produce very strong argument as to why ICA should be "excused" from this crime, when she has managed this condition, without similar offenses. Somehow a child getting in the way of your belle vita because she has begun to talk and become more independent will not be seen be a good enough excuse for killing her. The prosecution will be able to prove ICA was clearly a schemer who constantly thought up options to get around the problems in her life.

So, while I understand RHornsby is offering interesting defense options for soundbites, I'd really like him or AZLawyer or anybody who knows anything about the diminished mental capacity "rules" in Florida during the mitigation phase to please weigh in!
Click to expand...

See Florida Statute 921.141(6) --

(6)MITIGATING CIRCUMSTANCES.—Mitigating circumstances shall be the following:
  • (a)The defendant has no significant history of prior criminal activity.
  • (b)The capital felony was committed while the defendant was under the influence of extreme mental or emotional disturbance.
  • (c)The victim was a participant in the defendant’s conduct or consented to the act.
  • (d)The defendant was an accomplice in the capital felony committed by another person and his or her participation was relatively minor.
  • (e)The defendant acted under extreme duress or under the substantial domination of another person.
  • (f)The capacity of the defendant to appreciate the criminality of his or her conduct or to conform his or her conduct to the requirements of law was substantially impaired.
  • (g)The age of the defendant at the time of the crime.
  • (h)The existence of any other factors in the defendant’s background that would mitigate against imposition of the death penalty.
 
logicalgirl said:
If Ms Sims - and I don't use Dorothy because I immediately think of the Wizard of Oz - is here to declare Casey mentally ill during the mitigation phase, this is going to get interesting.

I've asked the question in several places including AZLawyer - what exactly are Florida's parameters for "diminished mental capacity". My understanding, from my little pea brain with no legal experience at all, is that the bar is pretty high.

Diminished mental capacity is also known as the "Twinkie Defense". You may all remember the case in California of Dan White,in a killing of the mayor of San Francisco and an other city official, who apparently killed in a state of depression, a depression both expressed and aggravated by his excessive ingestion of Twinkies and other junk food. Charged with first degree murder, he was convicted only of voluntary manslaughter.

But Florida isn't California. My understanding is the defendant must have acted with premeditation, deliberation and malice. To me the prosecution can clearly prove those things.

I was also reading some interesting segments in this administration of justice memorandum (which I can't copy because it's a pdf). This segment was arguing predetermined conditions. In other words, if ICA has had a life long "condition", the defense must produce very strong argument as to why ICA should be "excused" from this crime, when she has managed this condition, without similar offenses. Somehow a child getting in the way of your belle vita because she has begun to talk and become more independent will not be seen be a good enough excuse for killing her. The prosecution will be able to prove ICA was clearly a schemer who constantly thought up options to get around the problems in her life.

So, while I understand RHornsby is offering interesting defense options for soundbites, I'd really like him or AZLawyer or anybody who knows anything about the diminished mental capacity "rules" in Florida during the mitigation phase to please weigh in!
Click to expand...

Yep, like I said before and I will say again, they are going to surpass the Twinkie Defense. They are going to put on a Cocoa and Crackers defense! Part me is like, Dear Lord, and the other part actually wants to see what they do. It's like an train wreck you just have to watch, you know?
 
The Twinkie Defense got Dan White convicted of a lessor charge, manslaughter instead of murder, because of his diminished capacity. This was during the guilt phase of the trial, not the penalty phase.

If Casey is convicted of murder 1, I understand one of the mitigating factors she can argue is impaired capacity. What I don't understand is if she can present a defense based on impaired capacity during the guilt phase in order to receive a conviction of manslaughter rather than murder like Dan White did.

The difference that strikes me right away between the two cases is the fact that Dan White killed Milk and Moscone was not in question as it is in the case of Casey killing Caylee. So would Casey have to concede to the killing in order to argue something like this? I can't see her doing that so to get back on topic of this thread, Dorothy Sims most likely is going to be used during the penalty phase IMO.
 
Kentjbkent said:
Maybe it is finally time to start a thread about the past projects of Jim L, his connection to a few "players" who have instigated themselves in this case, as well as his current professional relationship with WESH anchor Martha S...
:waitasec: :dance:

(This all seems to be coming together for me...will start that thread when I get home this evening)
Click to expand...

I look forward to reading your research on this issue!!
 
Dear Prudence said:
The Twinkie Defense got Dan White convicted of a lessor charge, manslaughter instead of murder, because of his diminished capacity. This was during the guilt phase of the trial, not the penalty phase.

If Casey is convicted of murder 1, I understand one of the mitigating factors she can argue is impaired capacity. What I don't understand is if she can present a defense based on impaired capacity during the guilt phase in order to receive a conviction of manslaughter rather than murder like Dan White did.

The difference that strikes me right away between the two cases is the fact that Dan White killed Milk and Moscone was not in question as it is in the case of Casey killing Caylee. So would Casey have to concede to the killing in order to argue something like this? I can't see her doing that so to get back on topic of this thread, Dorothy Sims most likely is going to be used during the penalty phase IMO.
Click to expand...

Understand what you are saying, but how do you argue innocence during the guilt phase and diminished capacity in penalty phase. That would be not guilty your honor - whoops well if I'm guilty then I must be crazy - is that what you are saying? Are you quite convinced the Defense will not be offering diminished mental capacity on both sides of the fence? After all what we are doing here is second guessing defense tactics - we don't know - at least I don't know - do you?

As far we know, ICA got a psych evaluation before this started to okay her to go to trial. RH has just listed the key mitigating factors which we have already discussed - and I don't see how any of them relate - unless the defense is going to slide diminished mental capacity under the heading of extreme mental or emotional disturbance. And that's going to be really tough to prove what with all the picking up videos, denying, carrying on as usual, plus elaborate lies about just what beach Zanny had Caylee on.

My question is: in what manner can diminished mental capacity be used in Florida, and since this is the mitigation phase thread, in what way do experts feel it will be used in this case. Twinkies here, twinkies there or what?
 
(e)The defendant acted under extreme duress or under the substantial domination of another person.

Answer) CINDY

(h)The existence of any other factors in the defendant’s background that would mitigate against imposition of the death penalty.

Answer) 1. again, CINDY 2. Alleged sexual abuse by Lee and George

Just thinking about these things?! MOO
 
Frigga said:
(e)The defendant acted under extreme duress or under the substantial domination of another person.

Answer) CINDY

(h)The existence of any other factors in the defendant’s background that would mitigate against imposition of the death penalty.

Answer) 1. again, CINDY 2. Alleged sexual abuse by Lee and George

Just thinking about these things?! MOO
Click to expand...

I'd thought about those two things but e) isn't going to work because the isn't the kind of situation that warrants "substantial domination" of another person. That would work in the case of the woman in New York whose six year old was killed by her husband - I must look at that case so I can refer to it particularly - the mother was so battered and abused she wasn't capable literally of making a decision for herself. The prosecution is going to bring up a truckload of examples where ICA simply ignored Cindy - and I think that was most of ICA's life - to me Cindy was like an annoying and clumsy bumblebee buzzing and bumping around ICA. She really didn't pay much attention to her except for the ways she could use her to her own advantage.

I just can't see the alleged abuse flying - it just seems to be some last minute ramblings from ICA - unless the defense can pull a professional or a counsellor (school) from under their hats that ICA talked to years ago, it's just ICA's word - and she's a professional liar. Where some people could be believed, I think ICA's done herself in as far as credibility goes in this case.
 
logicalgirl said:
Understand what you are saying, but how do you argue innocence during the guilt phase and diminished capacity in penalty phase. That would be not guilty your honor - whoops well if I'm guilty then I must be crazy - is that what you are saying? Are you quite convinced the Defense will not be offering diminished mental capacity on both sides of the fence? After all what we are doing here is second guessing defense tactics - we don't know - at least I don't know - do you?

As far we know, ICA got a psych evaluation before this started to okay her to go to trial. RH has just listed the key mitigating factors which we have already discussed - and I don't see how any of them relate - unless the defense is going to slide diminished mental capacity under the heading of extreme mental or emotional disturbance. And that's going to be really tough to prove what with all the picking up videos, denying, carrying on as usual, plus elaborate lies about just what beach Zanny had Caylee on.

My question is: in what manner can diminished mental capacity be used in Florida, and since this is the mitigation phase thread, in what way do experts feel it will be used in this case. Twinkies here, twinkies there or what?
Click to expand...

Yes, the defense can argue not guilty and then if found guilty they can and will argue mitigating factors including diminished capacity - maybe something like post-partum depression. Once the jury finds Casey guilty then for the purpose of the penalty phase the fact has been established that she did it. She's guilty, she did it, what penalty does she deserve?

And no I don't know any of this for sure. That was my question. Can they use impaired capacity in the guilt phase to try to get a lesser charge? I too am just guessing what the defense's strategy might be based on what I think are reasonable assumptions given the law and expertise of the latest attorneys to join the team like Ms. Sims.
 
Dear Prudence said:
Yes, the defense can argue not guilty and then if found guilty they can and will argue mitigating factors including diminished capacity - maybe something like post-partum depression. Once the jury finds Casey guilty then for the purpose of the penalty phase the fact has been established that she did it. She's guilty, she did it, what penalty does she deserve?

And no I don't know any of this for sure. That was my question. Can they use impaired capacity in the guilt phase to try to get a lesser charge? I too am just guessing what the defense's strategy might be based on what I think are reasonable assumptions given the law and expertise of the latest attorneys to join the team like Ms. Sims.
Click to expand...

LOL - in other words you are asking the same question I am! Except how the heck can they argue post partum depression???? An active sex life - okay very active - shopping, dancing, cheque kiting - all very normal for ICA wasn't it? Where did the depression show up? I can see them claiming a bi-polar manic phase more than post-partum depression.

Actually I think if they focused on ICA's life a year before she killed Caylee, it would be a smooth flow of ICA's normal behavior.
 
Wow, you gotta love John Walsh! Have a look at Nums24's latest addition to Todays News - No Discussion.

How true is that!
 
Casey could have ALL the defense lawyers in the world defending her and she would still be found guilty.

I don't know what this new lawyer is going to bring to the table since 99.9% sure she's going to be found guilty anyways.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Staff online

Members online

... and 232 more.
Total: 4,021 (members: 233, guests: 3,788)

Online statistics

Members online
233
Guests online
3,788
Total visitors
4,021
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
592,250
Messages
17,966,003
Members
228,732
Latest member
FrnkKrcher
Back
Top