FL - 17-yo Boy Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain

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I want to know what is so suspicious about a 17-year-old boy walking home from a store? Was the only reason he was deemed "suspicious" because he was black? Was he walking in people's yards? Peeking in windows? Doesn't sound like it to me? Sounds like he was simply walking on the sidewalk. Anyone thinking how scared he could have been that someone was following him? With all the sickos out there? What if he had run? I believe this man would have still shot him.

Charges should be filed! He killed this boy.
 
The chief said the police have met with Zimmerman on two to three separate occasions, and the there investigation should be wrapped up this week. He said all of the evidence in the case will be delivered to the State Attorney

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2012/03/08/family-of-trayvon-martin-_n_1332756.html

Here comes the question we probably asked ourselves so many times.

WHY DID THIS HAVE TO HAPPEN.....?

Micci
 
From Lovejac's post, quoting the article:

Zimmerman told the police that Martin noticed that he was being followed and asked, “what’s your problem?”

That's when a physical confrontation ensued, Lee said. And moments later, Martin was shot.

This is key. If during a verbal confrontation, Trayvor attacked George Z physically and then he acted in self-defense, that's legal IMHO. It appears to me that's what happened, and that's why George Z isn't being charged with a crime. Reading between the lines that's what it seems might be the case.

Recently I've seen a couple cases where some unwitting teenager accidentally walks on some nut's property, and gets shot to death trying to escape the assault by the property owner. And that's NOT the same thing, IMHO. A young person who cuts across a lawn or is standing on a sidewalk in front of some vigilante's house and then is chased and shot in cold blood for just standing there is not the same thing as someone who is in a physical confrontation and then gets shot. Because if what I'm speculating is true, that George Z initiated a question about who Trayvor was, and Trayvor (justifiably) became defensive and a verbal argument ensured, and then as a result of that Trayvor physically attacked George Z, that's legally justified.

I don't know that scenario is true. I'm just guessing based on the few facts that have been told, and the response from LE not to charge George Z.

My heart is still breaking over the local case where a young man was standing in a driveway of a nutcase, and gunned down as he was trying to flee the verbal assault of the homeowner.
 
LolaMoon08 said:
I want to know what is so suspicious about a 17-year-old boy walking home from a store? Was the only reason he was deemed "suspicious" because he was black? Was he walking in people's yards? Peeking in windows? Doesn't sound like it to me? Sounds like he was simply walking on the sidewalk. Anyone thinking how scared he could have been that someone was following him? With all the sickos out there? What if he had run? I believe this man would have still shot him.

Charges should be filed! He killed this boy.
Click to expand...

I think that's a fair guess. But maybe he would have aggressively pursued any teenager he thought he could get away with. It's hard to imagine he'd have treated an old man walking a little dog this way.
 
For the record, his name is Trayvon, not Trayvor. Just wanted to clear that up with respect for him. :)
 
Even if it escalated to a physical confrontation you have to ask yourself... did the shooter jump out of the car in an aggressive manner after Tray asked "What's your problem?" If someone was following me and after I verbally confronted them and they jumped out of the car... I'm fighting! Do you think the outcome would have been any different had Tray ran? He'd have been shot in the back, imo. The shooter had to have gotten out of the car for there to be a physical altercation. He should have never gotten out of the car. There is nothing that justifies him shooting this young boy. Nothing!
 
Oops ... Sorry ... Typo... I think you meant me... But I didn't mistype it all the time... And that I don't be respectful? ... Tough one....
 
LolaMoon08 said:
Even if it escalated to a physical confrontation you have to ask yourself... did the shooter jump out of the car in an aggressive manner after Tray asked "What's your problem?" If someone was following me and after I verbally confronted them and they jumped out of the car... I'm fighting! Do you think the outcome would have been any different had Tray ran? He'd have been shot in the back, imo. The shooter had to have gotten out of the car for there to be a physical altercation. He should have never gotten out of the car. There is nothing that justifies him shooting this young boy. Nothing!
Click to expand...

I agree. This whole thing is just awful, and this young man is now dead. I do get that.

But yes, I do think the outcome (the arrest of the shooter) would have been different if Tray ran. I think George Z would have been arrested on the spot if the bullets were in Tray's back.

I'm not saying this isn't a tragedy. It's awful.

But I do think if Tray had grown up in this gated community he might be better at interacting with Crime Watch.

Prayers for his family.
 
He could have talked to him from the vehicle... what was this young man going to do to him IN his vehicle?

We have a cabin in a "gated" area. You pull up to the gate and if you don't have a key you can honk, or if there is already someone there, they will ask you who you are. You tell them which cabin/family you are with and they will let you in.

If you are seen walking/riding around there and someone does know who you are, they will stop and talk to you... to introduce themselves...
Because you are probably visiting family or friends.

This is ridiculous.
 
MicciStella said:
Oops ... Sorry ... Typo... I think you meant me... But I didn't mistype it all the time... And that I don't be respectful? ... Tough one....
Click to expand...

I wasn't trying to be snippy, I was just pointing it out. And I wasn't directing it at anyone in particular. I didn't say it was disrespectful either.
 
I want to know who made physical contact first? Did the shooter grab Tray? We know he had to have jumped out of the car for there to even be a physical confrontation. I'm asking this because I have two nieces and we have taught them from an early age that if someone grabs you.. you fight like hell!! Did the shooter even identify himself as "Sir Bad Arse Neighborhood Watch?"

We have an innocent 17-year-old boy dead! For walking home from a store! He was on the sidewalk! He wasn't in people's yards! He wasn't peeking in windows! He was walking on the sidewalk! The only reason the shooter found him to be suspicious was because he was "black." He was told to stop following Tray! He did not follow Law Enforcements orders. He instead continued to follow Tray. Tray finally asked the guy "What's your problem?" Obviously, at that moment, the shooter jumped out of his car. With a gun! I'm willing to bet money that the shooter put his hands on Tray first. Like a citizen's arrest type of thing. Tray, confused, doesn't know why this complete stranger is grabbing him and he fights back. The shooter shoots Tray dead!

That's murder!
 
More details. When police arrived on the scene, Zimmerman appeared to have been rolling around on the ground and had a bloody nose and was bleeding from the back of his head, and he had been calling out for help.

Sounds very much like it could be self-defense. This wouldn't have happened had Zimmerman not attempted to follow Trayvon, but that doesn't justify a physical assault, IMHO.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/08/trayvon-martin-fla-teen-k_n_1332440.html
 
LolaMoon08 said:
I want to know who made physical contact first? Did the shooter grab Tray? We know he had to have jumped out of the car for there to even be a physical confrontation. I'm asking this because I have two nieces and we have taught them from an early age that if someone grabs you.. you fight like hell!! Did the shooter even identify himself as "Sir Bad Arse Neighborhood Watch?"

We have an innocent 17-year-old boy dead! For walking home from a store! He was on the sidewalk! He wasn't in people's yards! He wasn't peeking in windows! He was walking on the sidewalk! The only reason the shooter found him to be suspicious was because he was "black." He was told to stop following Tray! He did not follow Law Enforcements orders. He instead continued to follow Tray. Tray finally asked the guy "What's your problem?" Obviously, at that moment, the shooter jumped out of his car. With a gun! I'm willing to bet money that the shooter put his hands on Tray first. Like a citizen's arrest type of thing. Tray, confused, doesn't know why this complete stranger is grabbing him and he fights back. The shooter shoots Tray dead!

That's murder!
Click to expand...

In bold - I don't think we'll ever know that for sure. Zimmerman would have every reason to say he was grabbed first, and there is no one to dispute that.

Still, Zimmerman was bleeding from two places. From Zimmerman's point of view, how much physical assault do you have to withstand before shooting is justified? I think a bloody nose, and a bloody back of the head is enough to justify shooting the assailant, even if Zimmerman overstepped a little by confronting Trayvon.
 
JeannaT said:
More details. When police arrived on the scene, Zimmerman appeared to have been rolling around on the ground and had a bloody nose and was bleeding from the back of his head, and he had been calling out for help.

Sounds very much like it could be self-defense. This wouldn't have happened had Zimmerman not attempted to follow Trayvon, but that doesn't justify a physical assault, IMHO.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/08/trayvon-martin-fla-teen-k_n_1332440.html
Click to expand...

If Zimmerman put his hands on Tray first, it 100% justifies a physical assault! You put your hands on me first, I am fighting you! Did Zimmerman even identify himself to Tray before he jumped out of the car? We teach our kids to fight back in situations where they are confronted by a stranger. We applaud it and call them little hero's. What is the difference here? There is no difference. So Tray was getting the better of the big bully? Doesn't justify shooting the kid! He was told to leave Tray alone and he didn't! He aggressively followed and confronted him! Had he did what he was told to do... Tray would be alive. He's nothing more than a big headed wannabe cop who shot and killed an unarmed kid who was doing nothing illegal.
 
Police claim the 911 operator told him not to follow the boy. That's all I need to know. Even if there is no one to dispute whatever GZ is saying, that pretty much applies to many homicides (since the victim is dead). Using that logic no one ever will be prosecuted.
 
I also want to hear the 911 calls! I want to know why he found Tray to be suspicious! If the only reason he was deemed "suspicious" was because the color of his skin, I'm going to be so ticked off. I'm white and I cannot stand racial profiling!
 
LolaMoon08 said:
If Zimmerman put his hands on Tray first, it 100% justifies a physical assault! You put your hands on me first, I am fighting you! Did Zimmerman even identify himself to Tray before he jumped out of the car? We teach our kids to fight back in situations where they are confronted by a stranger. We applaud it and call them little hero's. What is the difference here? There is no difference. So Tray was getting the better of the big bully? Doesn't justify shooting the kid! He was told to leave Tray alone and he didn't! He aggressively followed and confronted him! Had he did what he was told to do... Tray would be alive. He's nothing more than a big headed wannabe cop who shot and killed an unarmed kid who was doing nothing illegal.
Click to expand...

We don't know any of the details of who started the altercation. It's an assumption that Zimmerman grabbed Tray, and that's anyone's guess.

I don't know if you live in a concealed carry state, but it's not a good idea to assault someone who confronts you, because you'll likely end up like Trayvon, which is sad. Where would the assault on Zimmerman have ended if he didn't have a gun? Would Zimmerman have a permanent brain injury, or even been dead? We don't know.

Without knowing more details - Zimmerman's general personality and appearance (it makes a difference if Zimmerman appeared threatening or appeared physically weaker), and why Trayvon was suspended at the time from his school.

Civility on both their parts would have kept this from happening in the first place.
 
JeannaT said:
We don't know any of the details of who started the altercation. It's an assumption that Zimmerman grabbed Tray, and that's anyone's guess.

I don't know if you live in a concealed carry state, but it's not a good idea to assault someone who confronts you, because you'll likely end up like Trayvon, which is sad. Where would the assault on Zimmerman have ended if he didn't have a gun? Would Zimmerman have a permanent brain injury, or even been dead? We don't know.

Without knowing more details - Zimmerman's general personality and appearance (it makes a difference if Zimmerman appeared threatening or appeared physically weaker), and why Trayvon was suspended at the time from his school.

Civility on both their parts would have kept this from happening in the first place.
Click to expand...
It's not a good idea to follow someone either. Especially if GZ was told by the police not to. If somebody is following you what are you going to think this person is up to?
 
jjenny said:
Police claim the 911 operator told him not to follow the boy. That's all I need to know. Even if there is no one to dispute whatever GZ is saying, that pretty much applies to many homicides (since the victim is dead). Using that logic no one ever will be prosecuted.
Click to expand...

911 operators don't have any authority to tell citizens what to do.

We've all heard cases where 911 operators say that - the police are on their way, don't act, and the person ends up dead.

This is awful, I'm not arguing that.

I'm saying that as Neighborhood Watch captain on private property, Zimmerman has the right to confront someone in the street who appears suspicious. (Whatever that means). He has that right. I don't know who touched who first, but I don't believe Zimmerman punched Trayvon before being hit himself. I just don't believe Trayvon was punched.

I've seen cases where teens who are totally innocent get shot by crazy homeowners, and this isn't looking like that to me. This is looking like two hair-trigger male personalities encountered each other, neither could manage to interact civilly, a physical fight broke out and when Zimmerman had sustained enough injuries to justify shooting the other combatant, he did.

That's how it looks to me.
 
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