FL - 17-yo Boy Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #2

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Have we gotten any type of confirmation on Trayvon's phone? Did LE take it that night? We've heard that Trayvon's parents don't have it. I also saw something about SPD asking the parents for the phone (or was it just the records?).

So, if SPD don't have it and Trayvon's parents don't have it - then WTH is it? Could that be was GZ was doing right after he shot him? GZ could have been looking for a weapon as well - grabbed the phone and rolled him over - that would explain why Trayvon was face down with his hands underneath.

ITA the angle of the gunshot wound will say alot.

JMHO
 
Maybe he fell backwards as he shot trayvon. Considering it was raining isnt it possible he slipped backwards?

I think it's rather more likely (based on witnesses) that the two of them were fighting and GZ was on the bottom at some point.
 
Does anyone have any thoughts on how the call with Tray and his girlfriend dropped so quickly? I'm surprised she didn't hear more of the altercation. I can definitely see the phone call eventually dropping during a struggle, but I just can't figure out how one push would cause the phone to disconnect.
 
I think we should know exactly what Zimmerman was wearing because some say he was wearing a white T-shirt. Other's say a red T-shirt. This guy says a red sweater? If it was a red sweater, I wonder if it was a hoodie?

Still contradicts a lot of the call and statements already made by LE in this case? We'll see! I want to see Zimmerman's written/recorded original statements to LE!

There was a woman witness I believe who claimed there was a man outside wearing white t-shirt. Other than that I don't know anyone else who claimed GZ was wearing white. A statement attributed to a 13 year old boy witness indicated GZ was wearing red and was the one on the ground.
 
At least if Mr Zimmerman finds himself walking down a sidewalk with an unmarked truck stealthly following him, or being chased by a burly man with no obvious credentials, he is not likely to be confused about exactly why they are following him.

Not that anyone should ever under any circumstances do any such thing....more random thoughtless violence is NOT the answer to any problem or the punishment for bad judgement and stupidity.

Very true. I just found it somewhat ironic. One question I have that I'm not sure I've seen an answer to is WHY GZ got out of the truck at all. He thinks a suspicious kid is up to no good, he's, alerted 911 and is aware police are en route. Why continue to follow TM? And WHY get out of the truck?!

Even if TM ran towards GZs truck waving his skittles and tea in a threatening manner (is that even possible?) GZ could just step on the gas....
 
Very true. I just found it somewhat ironic. One question I have that I'm not sure I've seen an answer to is WHY GZ got out of the truck at all. He thinks a suspicious kid is up to no good, he's, alerted 911 and is aware police are en route. Why continue to follow TM? And WHY get out of the truck?!

Even if TM ran towards GZs truck waving his skittles and tea in a threatening manner (is that even possible?) GZ could just step on the gas....

I think its clear from 911 call that he was concerned that a "suspicious" person is going to get away.
 
Where do you think he is? Running, or hiding?

I personally don't care. He can't outrun JUSTICE, nor can he hide from it forever.

Media reports are that he is in hiding.
 
snipped for space ( I hope)

As tragic as Martin's death is, I think it's going to be difficult to prove Zimmerman technically broke any laws.



I respectfully beg to differ with you on that. While it is true that there isn't an eye witness, nor a camera which caught everything on tape, there is STILL evidence, there is in actuality mountains of circumstantial evidence which is still valuable evidence that cannot be dismissed.

When my kid was 3 and I had a chocolate cake on the table, and he came into the living room with chocolate smeared all over his mouth and there were little fingerprint tunnels all through the icing on the cake I did NOT have to have a tape of him doing it to know he had been in my cake.

Beyond a reasonable doubt does NOT mean erasing ALL doubt, accepting on the concrete hard and fast truth.

A reasonable person could and very likely would conclude that There is no reasonable or logical reason that TM would after running and attempting to geet away from GZ would suddenly turn and attack, with such ferocity and viciousness that GZ who was armed with a loaded gun, bigger and older than him was in actual fear of his life. There is a huge preponderance of circumstantial evidence to show that TM had no interest in any form of physical confrontation and was actively attempting to avoid it until it was forced on him by GZ.

By forcing that confrontation which led to the young mans death GZ did in deed and in fact technically and actually break the law.
 
Does anyone have any thoughts on how the call with Tray and his girlfriend dropped so quickly? I'm surprised she didn't hear more of the altercation. I can definitely see the phone call eventually dropping during a struggle, but I just can't figure out how one push would cause the phone to disconnect.

Maybe the call wasn't disconnected by him. She could have heard something going on and been saying "helloooo." If she wasn't getting an answer, maybe she thought to hang up, have the phone actually ring, and get his attention like that.

JMO
 
snipped for space ( I hope)

As tragic as Martin's death is, I think it's going to be difficult to prove Zimmerman technically broke any laws.



I respectfully beg to differ with you on that. While it is true that there isn't an eye witness, nor a camera which caught everything on tape, there is STILL evidence, there is in actuality mountains of circumstantial evidence which is still valuable evidence that cannot be dismissed.

When my kid was 3 and I had a chocolate cake on the table, and he came into the living room with chocolate smeared all over his mouth and there were little fingerprint tunnels all through the icing on the cake I did NOT have to have a tape of him doing it to know he had been in my cake.

Beyond a reasonable doubt does NOT mean erasing ALL doubt, accepting on the concrete hard and fast truth.

A reasonable person could and very likely would conclude that There is no reasonable or logical reason that TM would after running and attempting to geet away from GZ would suddenly turn and attack, with such ferocity and viciousness that GZ who was armed with a loaded gun, bigger and older than him was in actual fear of his life. There is a huge preponderance of circumstantial evidence to show that TM had no interest in any form of physical confrontation and was actively attempting to avoid it until it was forced on him by GZ.

By forcing that confrontation which led to the young mans death GZ did in deed and in fact technically and actually break the law.

Well there is an eyewitness that said he saw Trayvon on top of GZ attacking him...
 
WFTV says not racial slur. For those that have suggested Zimmerman was a racist based on that recording - see how easy it is to hear what you want and make snap judgements, exactly what Zimmerman did when he saw Martin.

Perhaps Martin thought (as many others thought) he heard Zimmerman make a racial slur, and as passionate as people get over such slurs, did attack Zimmerman.

As tragic as Martin's death is, I think it's going to be difficult to prove Zimmerman technically broke any laws.



"Throughout the day, people on social media websites began reporting that they heard the racial slur; however, others said they don't believe that it was an offensive comment. To listen for yourself, click here.

WFTV had an audio expert listen to the call, and determined that the word said was "punks.""

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/state-attorney-case-will-be-given-grand-jury-shoot/nLX9c/

I'll wait for the DOJ or FBI decision once they enhance the tapes. I did not hear an -unk. Unless Floridians have an alternate way to pronounce the word "punk" I'm not convinced. JMO and no one has to agree!

I'm also concerned that one of the family attorneys says their tape does not contain that...
 
snipped for space ( I hope)

As tragic as Martin's death is, I think it's going to be difficult to prove Zimmerman technically broke any laws.

Well there is an eyewitness that said he saw Trayvon on top of GZ attacking him...

I haven't heard any witness use the term "attack." I've heard wrestle and struggle, but not attack. JMO
 
Very true. I just found it somewhat ironic. One question I have that I'm not sure I've seen an answer to is WHY GZ got out of the truck at all. He thinks a suspicious kid is up to no good, he's, alerted 911 and is aware police are en route. Why continue to follow TM? And WHY get out of the truck?!

Even if TM ran towards GZs truck waving his skittles and tea in a threatening manner (is that even possible?) GZ could just step on the gas....

My opinion only, He had every intention of getting out of the truck, he got out of the truck for the exact same reason that he was carrying a loaded gun, and I don't think that gun was for protection. It is perfectly clear that he was intent on forcing a confrontation with this A$$hat black kid in a hoodie that he was certain was up to no good, and he was going to put the fear of God and the neighborhood watch into him.....he was Neighborhood watch almighty and he was going to chase him down and show him .... and he did.

The idea that he approached and politely asked the young man if he were lost and why was he in the neighborhood was just not on the agenda, he approched in a belligerant way, and wanted to do "What are you doing around here" in a threatening manner....and very likely started the confrontation by putting his hands on Tray First....

It was what he intended to do all along and is precisely why he got out of the truck to begin with.
 
Well there is an eyewitness that said he saw Trayvon on top of GZ attacking him...

Horace, is your source for this item this Feb. 27 news article?

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/seminole_news/022712-man-shot-and-killed-in-neighborhood-altercation

This was published the day after the killing, and apparently updated on March 14. Yet it still contains information that Tracy Martin is Tray's mother, when he is actually Tray's father.

"On Monday afternoon, a FOX 35 News crew met with Tracy Martin who said the victim in the shooting is her 17-year-old son, Trayvon, who was visiting from Miami.

"He walked out of the house to go to the store. He was going to the store," she said. "He doesn't know anybody here. He just came down here, so he was bored, so he walked down to the store. He was on his way back home. I'm living down here. He was sitting on the porch and this man killed him."


So if, the day after the killing occurred, a news crew met with somebody, assigned them dad's name and said they were mom (who we now know does not live in Sanford at all), then maybe it's prudent to view this early report with a more skeptical eye. :dunno:
 
WFTV had an audio expert listen to the call, and determined that the word said was "punks."

WFTV legal analyst Bill Sheaffer said that with the phone call involving a racial slur, it will be much harder for Zimmerman to cling to his self-defense claims.

How are these two snippets in the same article?
 
I havent read through all these threads yet, will tomorrow. Knew nothing about this case until I heard a segment on NPR which included the 911 call with the screaming. I cannot for one moment believe those screams were made by Zimmerman. That was a young person screaming in terror and those screams have haunted me ever since.

No, we don't know all the facts, but even if Trayvon faught with Zimmerman, my guess/bet would be it was fighting for his safety/life. I doubt seriously Zimmerman calmly approached and said "Pardon me young man, may I ask your business in this area?"

If I was approached by someone with a gun, you'd better believe I'm going to do all in my physical power to defend myself. I keep hearing the defense of Zimmerman of the "stand your ground" law, but seriously, who here had the most right to feel threatened and therefore stand their ground - the boy with tea & skittles or the larger adult with a GUN?

At the very least, outside & objective law enforcement need to step in and start from scratch.

When told "we don't need you to do that" (follow Trayvon) by 911, Zimmerman literally took the law in his own hands. And why shoot him in the chest? Surely as someone who had taken classes and obviously considered himself an "almost policeman" Zimmerman could realize even during a scuffle that this kid has not pulled a gun out and something less then shooting could suffice? "Hey kid, I'm not going to shoot you, calm down"

I would hope Z did not set out to hurt/kill Trayvon, but at the very least he made very bad/wrong decisions and should face some sort of charges. He is also not a person who should have a concealed weapon permit of any kind.
 
snipped for space ( I hope)

As tragic as Martin's death is, I think it's going to be difficult to prove Zimmerman technically broke any laws.

Well there is an eyewitness that said he saw Trayvon on top of GZ attacking him...


Which mean nothing, since it still does not prove who was the aggressor, if you walk over and smack the snot out of me, and I precede to clean your clock but good, you cannot stab me or shoot me and then claim self defense.

The evidence circumstantal, ear witness, and actual evidence is that Tray went to the store, and on the way back he was followed, this is undisputed by GZ, he was followed first in a car, and then on foot, at some point while attempting to "get away" Which is also undisputed by the 911 call where GZ says he is running and that these A$$#% always get away....He was then persued on foot, and at some point he was caught, since LE claims that GZ in his statement said he asked him what he was doing...so undisputed, the only thing that IS in dispute is that suddenly instead of breaking and running for his Dad's home 70 yards away, he turned and physically attacked an older and larger man,

I submit that is completely illogical, my common sense tells me that GZ did more than simply ask him his business, but that he attempted to physically detain him in some manner, or that he showed him the gun and menaced him, which cause the scuffle, which GZ then charactarized as an attack, since he had killed Tray and dead kids tell no tales.

Not one single thing that we know for fact from beginning to end would lead a reasonable person to conclude that for no apparent reason out of the blue a kid with no history of violence is going to physically attack someone that he has shown all indications of simply wanting to get away from. JMHO
 
Since Zimmerman had moisture and grass all over his back, and a head injury to the back of his head, and bleeding from his nose, I think it's CLEAR he was in a physical confrontation and he was losing.

That may meet Florida's right to defend your life laws, I don't know. If I were in Zimmerman's position, I'd surely have used any weapon I had in my possession to survive.
 
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