WESH: Duct Tape Info in the Document Release

Themis · Feb 16, 2009

Mr. Olivander says the wand chooses the ... oh nevermind ... wrong forum.

Jolynna · Feb 16, 2009

bookworm474 said:
Don't know it if has been discussed, but what if Casey truly has more than one personality and she can reveal them to anyone out of fear?

She was conscious of guilt under every personality.

For 31 days almost every hour on the hour, Casey clear-mindedly contacted people through text, phone or the computer and kept her stories straight.

Jolynna · Feb 16, 2009

bookworm474 said:
Don't know it if has been discussed, but what if Casey truly has more than one personality and she can reveal them to anyone out of fear?

Fear of what? She is already facing the rest of her life in prison. Maybe even the death penalty.

Lovejac · Feb 16, 2009

Can I just say, hip hip hooray for duct tape!!

Slap some butter and jam on miss casey

cuz she is TOAST!!!

Themis · Feb 16, 2009

Good point, Jolynna! That stream of text messaging does show her clarity and state of mind after the death.

Eulalie · Feb 16, 2009

Themis said:
Premeditation vs. Accident

This is a myth. The legal principle of premeditation does not have an opposite of "accident." That argument is more of a push-pull between intended death or unintended death. Premeditation involves an intent to do an act (or not do an act that the person has a legal duty to perform). <b>Premeditation does not require that the person intended that the result be death.</b>
When we hear discussions about accident vs. premeditation it is like comparing apples to grapefruit. Premeditation is a legal term. Accident is a non-professional term to describe lack of a bad heart and possibly a perpetrator's surprise at the outcome. They didn't mean to do it. This has no bearing on whether or not there has been a crime. It might have a little bit of impact on whether or not a case is prosecuted because it may have some bearing on whether or society needs some retribution or punishment to curb that person's behavior. Premeditation with respect to the element of intent required to support findings of guilty as to a criminal act and the lay person's concept of an accident are two very VERY different concepts.

Thank you very much for this explanation. The bold part is where I'm unclear -- is it correct to say that legally, if someone intended to do the act that resulted in death, then the death was premeditated (even if the death itself was unplanned)?

sumbunny · Feb 16, 2009

What i'm afraid of the evidence showing, is possible caylee fingerprints on the duct tape..I'll be sick if that is the case.

Eulalie · Feb 16, 2009

Themis said:
Mr. Olivander says the wand chooses the ... oh nevermind ... wrong forum.

"Absolutely" Slytherin! Heh.

ETA: oh, forget it...I'm off-topic AND I was thinking of the Sorting Hat.

Jolynna · Feb 16, 2009

jennyb said:
Thanks, Lin. I understand that legally premeditation can happen in the blink of an eye. I guess something so brutal as duct-taping a live child speaks of momentary rage to me, which goes against a long planning scenario. More of an impulse thing. Overall, computer searches notwithstanding, I tend to think it was a rage killing.

Casey put the duct tape over Caylee's hair. That means she knew in advance the duct tape wasn't coming off.

That seems pretty premeditated.

Themis · Feb 16, 2009

Eulalie said:
Thank you very much for this explanation. The bold part is where I'm unclear -- is it correct to say that legally, if someone intended to do the act that resulted in death, then the death was premeditated (even if the death itself was unplanned)?

That is correct. You've got it right.

mindypin · Feb 16, 2009

LittleBitty35 said:
Yes. I can't wait to watch Baez and his team squirm. She is guilty. She, Casey, that thing, has been guilty this whole time. She killed her precious daughter ALL on her own. She has known the whole time what happened. I hope that the DP goes back on the table. ENOUGH from Casey and her attorneys. A defendent's right to a defense and a fair trial does not REQUIRE that we all take complete leave of our senses and ability to deduce and have analytical thought. Casey is entitled to a defense. But she is not entitled to have the jury pool throw common sense and facts and the freaking truth out the window.

I agree completely agree. I have seen her guilt as a no-brainer from the get-go.

lin · Feb 16, 2009

Jolynna said:
She was conscious of guilt under every personality.

For 31 days almost every hour on the hour, Casey clear-mindedly contacted people through text, phone or the computer and kept her stories straight.

Repeatedly expressing her affection for and confidence in her 'nanny' iirc.

Kimster · Feb 16, 2009

Can't WAIT for this doc dump! :clapping:

cocoamom · Feb 16, 2009

Muzikman said:
If the media doesn't get them ALL up right away, I will go and get my own copy. For Websleuthers only, of course... heh

Muzikman, YOU ROCK!! :bowdown::bowdown: We're not worthy of thee!!

TIA!

cocoamom · Feb 16, 2009

Themis said:
Premeditation vs. Accident

This is a myth. The legal principle of premeditation does not have an opposite of "accident." That argument is more of a push-pull between intended death or unintended death. Premeditation involves an intent to do an act (or not do an act that the person has a legal duty to perform). Premeditation does not require that the person intended that the result be death.
When we hear discussions about accident vs. premeditation it is like comparing apples to grapefruit. Premeditation is a legal term. Accident is a non-professional term to describe lack of a bad heart and possibly a perpetrator's surprise at the outcome. They didn't mean to do it. This has no bearing on whether or not there has been a crime. It might have a little bit of impact on whether or not a case is prosecuted because it may have some bearing on whether or society needs some retribution or punishment to curb that person's behavior. Premeditation with respect to the element of intent required to support findings of guilty as to a criminal act and the lay person's concept of an accident are two very VERY different concepts.

Excellent post! thank you for that explanation!:Jumpie:

momtective · Feb 16, 2009

Muzikman said:
If the media doesn't get them ALL up right away, I will go and get my own copy. For Websleuthers only, of course... heh

:blowkiss:

per_curiam · Feb 16, 2009

There's a possibility that the duct tape isn't what killed Caylee. (Duh...

)

KC could have been under the influence of drugs, alcohol, or just her own mental illness, or anger. She could have drugged Caylee first, to subdue her enough to finish off with the tape, in case Caylee "woke up". How sickening it is to type this! But that's what I think is a possibility.

LisaNY · Feb 16, 2009

jennyb said:
So basically most murders are considered premeditated then, if it only takes a second to think and then act. If you're in a bar holding a beer bottle and someone pizzes you off, you hit them over the head and kill them -- well, that's premeditated too? Just like if a child makes you so angry you tape their mouth and they die... I wonder ...

I think if you had the bottle in your hand PRIOR to getting pizzed, not premeditated, if you get into a confrontation, then walk to end of bar, pick up bottle, thats premeditated. I could be wrong.

I think the evidence on the tape will tell us all if this was premed or not. IMO, it does not matter. I still think dp applies either way. She was 2 yrs old. I still believe she was overdosed, and then a kidnap staging was attempted. (KC would have loved the attention that would have gotten her) It proved to be too much work, and the body decomp was out of control so she dumped poor Caylee. I hope the blanket or the laundry bag has a stain, that matches the stain in the trunk of the car. iow, the decomp saturated thru the pooh blanket / laundry bag forming the basketball-sized stain in the trunk. I think le has a lot more than we think. The real story is probably far more horrifying than any theory any of us could come up with. Poor baby, time for justice ... all moo.

cyberborg · Feb 16, 2009

Jolynna said:
She was conscious of guilt under every personality.

For 31 days almost every hour on the hour, Casey clear-mindedly contacted people through text, phone or the computer and kept her stories straight.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

:woohoo: :woohoo:

ks1 · Feb 16, 2009

hollyhobby1973 said:
I agree here. I just wonder how LP gets all the goods.

I think LP was a Carnie and guessed peoples weight, age, etc. in an earlier life. He is good at using reasonable deduction to determine an outcome and has the microphone (NG) to do it publicly.

WESH: Duct Tape Info in the Document Release

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