WARNING:GRAPHIC PHOTOS Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #8

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Did he actually ever say 'satanic' or was that just something the tabloids made up? The timing of the murder was on the 'Day of the Dead' and the day after Halloween. He would be a bad prosecutor had he not investigated that. What is the point of bashing this guy continuously anyway? Just because he tapped a phone some years ago? Do you have any idea how many cases he handled in his career? Do you even realize that there are 2 prosecutors? IMO this is such a low blow to attack the prosecutor where it is the judges that decide.

A "low blow" to attack a prosecutor who has been found guilty of misconduct?!

:eek:

The reason it matters here is that the prosecutor in question has a proven history of inventing an elaborate and improbable theory and then violating prosecutorial ethics (and Italian law) trying to prove it.

The theory in this case is equally improbable. The issue we are discussing is whether that theory was also a mere invention by the prosecutor.
 
Some of the images were posted in the news and the Kercher family was very upset about it. We know that Amanda's lawyers have publicly tried to distance themselves from the media activites that have been undertaken by the Knox family. I would be very surprised to learn that Amanda or Raffaele's lawyer gave crime scene photos to Ron Hendry. I suspect that they came directly from Amanda's family, and not someone like Raffaele's lawyer.

There have been discussions about who released documents, such as Amanda's diary, to media. This appears to be another example of court documents being released to media most likely through Amanda's family. I suspect that they did not clear this decision with the victim's family. But, I may be wrong, and it may be true that Amanda and Raffaele's lawyers have decided to retry the case in the US media ... even though they are in the middle of an appeal and Raffaele's lawyers strenuously objected to the release of the movie.

I don't know about the photos, but it was proven conclusively in this very thread that the Knox family didn't even have AK's diary to release it to the media. And of course they didn't have RS' diary, which was released as well.
 
That's quite interesting. I would have thought a place like Bosnia, that practiced genocide, would have more human rights violations than a place like Italy.

This document gives different information: http://www.echr.coe.int/NR/rdonlyre...D/0/FAITS_CHIFFRES_EN_JAN2011_VERSION_WEB.pdf

"Bosnia" didn't practice genocide. Bosnian citizens (especially Muslims) were by and large the victims of genocide. The primary perpetrators were Serbs and Bosnians of Serbian ethnicity. The second largest number of incidents were perpetrated by Croats and Bosnians of Croatian ethnicity. There were a few incidents of retaliation by Bosnian Muslims, but relatively few.

All of this has been or is being litigated at the World Court because the majority of incidents involved persons outside the jurisdiction of Bosnian courts.
 

Nobody here has made much of the homeless man's testimony. I think it has generally been disregarded in these discussions. (This isn't to say refuting the testimony isn't important in Perugia, which is a separate issue.)

So what I find most significant about those articles is the note that numerous witnesses told ILE there were no buses running on the night of the murder and the homeless man's recollection must be wrong, yet those witnesses were ignored because they didn't say what ILE wanted to hear.

That may say something very significant about this entire case.
 
I have an apology to make to you all. I wont go into details and normally items like Ron Hendry's photographs do not bother me as I know he is doing a job and is well respected.

The demon I have rears its' head periodically and it had nothing to do with the photographs.

I in no way meant to derail a topic on this thread and normally I am quite capable of dealing with it

Again, I do apologize to you all, and will plead tempory insanity and hope that you will all forgive me for this lapse
 
A "low blow" to attack a prosecutor who has been found guilty of misconduct?!

:eek:

The reason it matters here is that the prosecutor in question has a proven history of inventing an elaborate and improbable theory and then violating prosecutorial ethics (and Italian law) trying to prove it.

The theory in this case is equally improbable. The issue we are discussing is whether that theory was also a mere invention by the prosecutor.
Yes, because he tapped a phone that he probably shouldn't have and isn't he appealing? That he has a 'proven' record of inventing stuff and that his theories are improbably is just your opinion. Would his theories indeed have been improbable then that only would have been good for the defense. The crazier his theories the more likely that the judges would reject them. I don't see the point. He is just doing his job. It is the judges that decide.
 
Yes, because he tapped a phone that he probably shouldn't have and isn't he appealing? That he has a 'proven' record of inventing stuff and that his theories are improbably is just your opinion. Would his theories indeed have been improbable then that only would have been good for the defense. The crazier his theories the more likely that the judges would reject them. I don't see the point. He is just doing his job. It is the judges that decide.

Quite the opposite actually

The bench ruled that he and Michele Giuttari, a detective-turned-thriller writer, had used their powers to persecute people they regarded as their enemies: tapping their phones, interrogating them, putting them under investigation without any evidence against them and even getting them jailed, for personal reasons

the court said, were guilty of "almost unheard of" criminal activity, carrying out investigations "in no way related ... to their proper competence", launching criminal cases with no evidence, ordering phone taps with "quite different ends" from those cited when the taps were authorised, taps that were made "for reasons of retaliation ... against people towards whom they had reasons for hostility".

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/knox-prosecutor-tainted-by-satanism-case-1992485.html


Even though all the Monster's victims were shot with the same gun, Mignini told a court that it wasn't the work of a single serial killer. Rather, Mignini described an elaborate conspiracy of 20 people, including government officials and law enforcement officers, who made up a secret society behind the Monster killings.

Mignini indicted the 20 people and charged them with the concealment of Narducci's murder, and laid out a hard-to-follow plot that included body doubles and featured Narducci's body being swapped - not once, but twice!

If all of this sounds hard to believe, it is. Tuesday, in a preliminary hearing, Perugia Judge Paolo Micheli threw out the case against the 20. The judge found there was no solid evidence to back up Mignini's claim that Narducci was murdered, let alone the victim of a satanic sect

Late Tuesday evening, when the 20 defendants were freed of all charges, they celebrated in front of the courthouse, opening bottles of champagne
a court in Florence said Mignini was guilty of abusing the considerable powers of his office

According to the Italian newsmagazine Panorama, investigators discovered that Mignini maintained computer lists entitled "Attacks to Remember" and "Orgy of Attacks." The lists contained names of journalists, government officials, and members of the Italian Parliament.

Mignini was convicted of launching investigations into his critics in the media, the police, and the government. The prosecutor illegally wiretapped phones and cell phones in his ambition to end the "orgy of attacks."

Because he violated the public trust, the Florence court banned Mignini from holding public office for the rest of his life. But, during his appeal, the prosecutor gets to remain in office. Mignini has not been called on to resign either

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_1...ag=mncol;lst;4

He was convicted of:

1.) Illegally investigating journalists who had criticized him with the "intent to harass or deter them from pursuing their legitimate profession". Specifically the court found that Mignini had targeted Italian journalists Vincenzo Tessandori, Gennaro De Stefano, and Roberto Fiasconaro, because they had criticized his investigations into the death of Narducci.

2.) Ordering an illegal investigation of the Florentine ex police chief Giuseppe De Donno.

3.) Ordering illegal investigations of two officials of the Viminale, the Ministry of the Interior in Rome, including an illegal investigation of the Roberto Sgalla, ex-director of the office of external affairs
 
If all of this sounds hard to believe, it is. Tuesday, in a preliminary hearing, Perugia Judge Paolo Micheli threw out the case against the 20. The judge found there was no solid evidence to back up Mignini's claim that Narducci was murdered, let alone the victim of a satanic sect.
*Snipped*. And that is exactly how it works in a trial. It is the judges that decide. Insinuating that anything would be different if a different prosecutor had been working on the case makes no sense IMO. There was a different prosecutor working on the case. There were 2. RG had different prosecutors in his trials. Those were separate trials. Different prosecutors, different judges, different trials...same conclusion.
 
*Snipped*. And that is exactly how it works in a trial. It is the judges that decide. Insinuating that anything would be different if a different prosecutor had been working on the case makes no sense IMO. There was a different prosecutor working on the case. There were 2. RG had different prosecutors in his trials. Those were separate trials. Different prosecutors, different judges, different trials...same conclusion.

Same plot
Same prosecutor
Same psychic

Different judges as they go on to say

"No one," they write, "has an absolute right not to be put under investigation, even if they are innocent; but everyone has the right not to be investigated if no evidence emerges ... that goes beyond mere suspicion."

Those are words that may come back to haunt him

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/knox-prosecutor-tainted-by-satanism-case-1992485.html
 
I don't know about the photos, but it was proven conclusively in this very thread that the Knox family didn't even have AK's diary to release it to the media. And of course they didn't have RS' diary, which was released as well.

That is false. It was not proven 'conclusively' because from my understanding some of AK's diary was offered to an individual that is administrator at PMF. Since the family was making this offer, how did they not even have it??? The video (showing Meredith's neck wound) was plainly given to the media by RS's family. So nothing proven conclusively IMO.

What does it matter who released the information anyway? Anything written is jail is fair game to investigators IMO. It is their own fault and likely their defense teams would agree, that they wrote the attempts to procure an alibi and the plain lies within.
 
when I think of Amanda, I think of Hayden P now...something that occured to me after watching the MFTVMovie was that if it is actually possible that AK was anything more than a lovesick, self involved victim in all of this, then is it possible that she was having mania of some sort as in a manic episode?...up for days..erratic behaviour...poor decision making...violent behaviour..irrationality....?

I cannot completely rule it out....based on the film and that is bad for Amanda in terms of public perception.

I read Monster of Florence and this case should be thrown out, based on this guys record alone...seriously...the nuts are running the nuthouse there.
 
A "low blow" to attack a prosecutor who has been found guilty of misconduct?!

:eek:

The reason it matters here is that the prosecutor in question has a proven history of inventing an elaborate and improbable theory and then violating prosecutorial ethics (and Italian law) trying to prove it.

The theory in this case is equally improbable. The issue we are discussing is whether that theory was also a mere invention by the prosecutor.

Illegal wire tapping is what he did. He listened in on police and media without permission during an investigation of the Monster of Florence murders.

This is not about "inventing elaborate and improbably theory".
 
"Bosnia" didn't practice genocide. Bosnian citizens (especially Muslims) were by and large the victims of genocide. The primary perpetrators were Serbs and Bosnians of Serbian ethnicity. The second largest number of incidents were perpetrated by Croats and Bosnians of Croatian ethnicity. There were a few incidents of retaliation by Bosnian Muslims, but relatively few.

All of this has been or is being litigated at the World Court because the majority of incidents involved persons outside the jurisdiction of Bosnian courts.

You can read the blog that was linked, or you can research the human rights site. Italy is not the first, second or third in violations ... it's much lower on the list ... in terms of human rights violations. Even the US has more violations than Italy. Those violations include things like wearing religious clothing (like having one's head covered while teaching in a British school, or what is permissable in France). It's very misleading to suggest that human rights violations only relate to criminal prosecutions or unethical legal actions.
 
Nobody here has made much of the homeless man's testimony. I think it has generally been disregarded in these discussions. (This isn't to say refuting the testimony isn't important in Perugia, which is a separate issue.)

So what I find most significant about those articles is the note that numerous witnesses told ILE there were no buses running on the night of the murder and the homeless man's recollection must be wrong, yet those witnesses were ignored because they didn't say what ILE wanted to hear.

That may say something very significant about this entire case.

One person didn't show up and has been fined 200 euros. He will be there at he next hearing. I don't know what to make of the testimony so far. The defense would have us believe that all the discos were closed on Nov 1, but Rudy went to the disco on Nov 1, so they were not all closed.
 
<respectifully snipped>
He was convicted of:

1.) Illegally investigating journalists who had criticized him with the "intent to harass or deter them from pursuing their legitimate profession". Specifically the court found that Mignini had targeted Italian journalists Vincenzo Tessandori, Gennaro De Stefano, and Roberto Fiasconaro, because they had criticized his investigations into the death of Narducci.

2.) Ordering an illegal investigation of the Florentine ex police chief Giuseppe De Donno.

3.) Ordering illegal investigations of two officials of the Viminale, the Ministry of the Interior in Rome, including an illegal investigation of the Roberto Sgalla, ex-director of the office of external affairs

Yes, he was convicted of illegally wiretaping media and police during the investigation into the monster of Florence ... nothing more, nothing less.
 
That is false. It was not proven 'conclusively' because from my understanding some of AK's diary was offered to an individual that is administrator at PMF. Since the family was making this offer, how did they not even have it??? The video (showing Meredith's neck wound) was plainly given to the media by RS's family. So nothing proven conclusively IMO.

What does it matter who released the information anyway? Anything written is jail is fair game to investigators IMO. It is their own fault and likely their defense teams would agree, that they wrote the attempts to procure an alibi and the plain lies within.

They most certainly did. I think I like Raffaele's fiction about the dinner party at his apt with Meredith best, but Amanda's stick figures and castle "art" give insight into how she thinks when her roommate is murdered.
 
when I think of Amanda, I think of Hayden P now...something that occured to me after watching the MFTVMovie was that if it is actually possible that AK was anything more than a lovesick, self involved victim in all of this, then is it possible that she was having mania of some sort as in a manic episode?...up for days..erratic behaviour...poor decision making...violent behaviour..irrationality....?

I cannot completely rule it out....based on the film and that is bad for Amanda in terms of public perception.

I read Monster of Florence and this case should be thrown out, based on this guys record alone...seriously...the nuts are running the nuthouse there.

Did you read the Mario Spezi (reporter) and Douglas Preston (novelist) book? I couldn't get past the seedy, smokey bar where he bragged about having access to restricted police information through an Italian reporter (Spezi). Too bad there's no ending to the story.

I wouldn't put too much faith in Preston's perspective on the murders or the prosecutor. Preston seems pretty upset about being questioned by Mignini after interfering in an ongoing murder investigation.
 
I don't know about the photos, but it was proven conclusively in this very thread that the Knox family didn't even have AK's diary to release it to the media. And of course they didn't have RS' diary, which was released as well.

"Proven conclusively on this thread"??? What??? I don't think so. I have read that Amanda's diary was offered by Chris Mellas to a moderator for a discussion forum that was originally managed by the Huffington Post. That discussion forum is now managed by someone in Seattle. This person refused the diary because there were strings attached, but some information was indeed shared by Chris Mellas, and that information was recently shared with the public. It is papers from Knox that have not been published by any media outlet.

The reason Chris released the false positive HIV page of the diary was to build sympathy for Amanda. The implication was that the Italians were psychologically torturing her by telling her that she was HIV positive. It backfired because Amanda wrote that the doctor told her it was probably a false positive, and because the media was more interested in the list of 7 sex partners (excluding Raffaele) Amanda wrote on that page of her diary.

Furthermore, I cannot believe that Raffaele's lawyer filed a million dollar lawsuit to stop the movie, and also decided to share crime scene photos with an accident reconstructionist. Suggesting that the defense lawyers released crime scene photos to Hendry, essentially participating in trying the case in the US media, makes no sense. The only source for the more than 100 crime scene photos and videos could be Amanda's family.
 
Yes, because he tapped a phone that he probably shouldn't have and isn't he appealing? That he has a 'proven' record of inventing stuff and that his theories are improbably is just your opinion. Would his theories indeed have been improbable then that only would have been good for the defense. The crazier his theories the more likely that the judges would reject them. I don't see the point. He is just doing his job. It is the judges that decide.

If you don't find his theory of satanic collusion in the "Monster of Florence" case improbable, then you and Mignini are the only ones.

Yes, it is my opinion that it is also highly improbable that three young people--two of whom had never met, none of whom had known another for more than a week--came together in a matter of minutes and conspired to rape, torture and kill a fourth party almost equally unknown to all but one of them. And IMHO it is just as improbable that three people attacked MK in her tiny room, when somehow two of them left virtually no forensic trace.

Your characterization of a prosecutor as a disinterested party who presents evidence dispassionately is simply wrong. A prosecutor is an advocate and it is his/her job to lead the jury (which in Italy includes judges) to a certain interpretation of the evidence. In theory, his/her goal is a reasonable interpretation; in practice, with Mignini, we see that isn't necessarily the case.

Along the way, a prosecutor has enormous influence in terms of what evidence is collected and how it is presented. As we see in this case, s/he also has the power to influence perceptions by releasing info to the press.

So, yeah, it matters that Mignini has been convicted of unethical and illegal acts. By itself, it isn't enough to overturn the verdicts against AK and RS. (At least not in Italy.) But it's something we should keep in mind.
 
That is false. It was not proven 'conclusively' because from my understanding some of AK's diary was offered to an individual that is administrator at PMF. Since the family was making this offer, how did they not even have it??? The video (showing Meredith's neck wound) was plainly given to the media by RS's family. So nothing proven conclusively IMO.

What does it matter who released the information anyway? Anything written is jail is fair game to investigators IMO. It is their own fault and likely their defense teams would agree, that they wrote the attempts to procure an alibi and the plain lies within.

It matters because it is indicative of the extent to which this case was tried in the press rather than the courtroom.

I know that other site likes to claim that AK's family released the diaries. It had been demonstrated to my satisfaction that such an event was impossible. I'm satisfied that someone in ILE released the material. The open question is whether it was an individual profiting from stolen material or part of a concerted attempt by ILE to sway public opinion.
 
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