MA MA - Molly Bish, 16, Warren, 27 Jun 2000

Hi Fran, I'll go find the link again, it led off the Bish website I think.

I agree that the ex cop is dodgy but he has a watertight alibi - he was actually on duty as a police officer when Molly went missing. Or was that when Holly went missing? I can't recall now....will have to go check. My opinion is the cases are not linked. The only coincidence is geography. I think that simply because paeds tend to stick to the same "type" of victim, and in this case one was a child and one was a teenage girl - vast difference in the eyes of a predator. Not impossible but in my opinion not likely. I'll go look up those links for you.
 
Do you have the link to your W prostitute killer site? Was it anywhere near where Molly was killed?

The thing that bothers me is how he got her off that beach. She wasn't alone there, and her Dad said she would never have left her shoes to walk through the woods as it was a rough path and she would have hurt herself. So the theory that she was lured away doesn't work - if someone saud "could you come with me?" she would have put on her shoes. So it must have been by force - but no one saw anything???? Who else was on the beach?? They never mentioned anything. Unless the only witnesses are children? But then that begs the question why alarm bells didn't ring sooner, if this apparently responsible girl left children alone on the beach, when she was meant to be guarding their lives.....you know I am going back to that Boss thing someone mentioned. He didn't raise the alarm for quite a while. And he would be one of the few people who actually could have lured her away without question. If he said "come now" she would have, he was her boss, new job, she would have gone with him immediately. I wonder what his alibi was?
 
I don't place alot of credence in this Dr Kelly after this stupid statement - “All these incidents were out by the woods near a pond in a secluded section,” he said. “All of them start with W's. Too many coincidences. Police may be dealing with some kind of outdoors, schizophrenic type of person.”

Why on earth would he say the person was probably schizophrenic?? that unfairly labels everyone suffering from this illness as violent and dangerous which is simply untrue, plus I wouldn't say this person was in any way like that. He's careful and well planned and organised and left no traces, and indeed concealed the body for several years.
 
Interesting reading (but difficult, that tiny font and no paragraphs!). But I don't think connected to Molly, "..All three were petite Hispanic women from Worcester with a history of drug use and prostitution" so VERY different from Molly. The other women were also in their late 20's/early 30's, Molly was 16.
 
nicbok said:
and her Dad said she would never have left her shoes to walk through the woods as it was a rough path and she would have hurt herself.
Unless she heard something in the distance that required her immediate attention ... car crash, child screaming - something that would make someone jump up & run towards the sound to check it out. Or someone coming after her while she was on the beach and her running to get away. Or someone she knew calling her over and she went without a second thought. The third possibility seems the most likely.
 
nicbok:
I apologize if you thought I was linking the prostitute killings to Molly's, that wasn't my intent. I was just pointing it out as a point of interest and the fact that there appears to be a serial killer yet I get the impression LE hasn't advised the public. Of course, I don't live there, so maybe they have.
Anyway, that's an entirely different case.....probably.
The day that Molly was abducted, it's my understanding she got to the watering hole before anyone else. The first guests, I believe a mom and her children arrived about 1/2 hour after Molly, but she was gone by then. The owner of the place arrived awhile later and when he didn't find Molly he called LE. It wasn't until sometime later that they contacted her parents. This is what I remember reading, anyway, and could be wrong.

The fact that the first aid kit was opened tells me that was part of the plan to abduct Molly, a momentary distraction in order to overtake her.

I don't know about this other case, I'd have to dig deeper when I have more time. But, when LE are looking for a missing person, they tell the public to try to think of someone who has changed their "pattern of living" since the occurance or changed their appearance. One of the things they say is sometimes the person (perp) will begin to drink heavily. This ex cop fits that bill. Then he gets heavily involved in the 'search.' He becomes obsessed. He's LE at the time and former LE during Molly's abduction. He knows ways to not get caught or to hide his crime. What possible evidence LE would be looking for. (remember, the BTK guy had a degree in admin. justice. He knew how not to get caught).

This former cop finds evidence (twice) of where Molly was eventually located. He told LE, previous to Molly's discovery, the type of place where the perp may have taken Molly, .........and he was right. He's trying to throw suspicion on someone else. Does he think he's smarter than everyone else? Smarter than LE?

I don't know, my hinky meter is way up on him. But, like I said, I'd have to spend more time researching both cases to give further opinion. I just know what it looks like to me from what I've seen so far. So, this is just IMO, IMOO, IMHO. Something to think about.

JMHO
fran
 
First, it is sad to see someone who has worked very hard to help two families find their daughters and find out what happened to them discussed this way. I have seen many on this site become obsessed with particular cases or with the whole aspect of missing persons in general......I suspect that Tim Mcguigan started out with a similar obsession...but for him it would have been different, he was not at arms length...he was dealing with the families of Holly and later Molly. He had the courage even after all that he went through because of his involvement with Holly's case to want to help the family of Molly Bish.

Second, there are a few inaccuracies that have been posted here that could be cleared up by reading the following links:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/01/48hours/main586143.shtml
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/01/48hours/main586151.shtml
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/01/48hours/main586166.shtml

In Holly's case, the person Tim Mcguigan suspects was a local and has since
has been arrested numerous times on petty offenses, and pleaded guilty to assault against his own daughter according to CBS. He now resides in NH.

In Molly's case, there was speculation that there were others around...according to CBS Molly's Mom dropped her off just before 10 a.m. The lot was empty, except for a dump truck dropping off a load of sand, and her other then waited for the dump truck to drive out before she drove away. The following, I've always found disturbing:

Police at first suspected that Molly had simply abandoned her post to go and hang out with her friends. But for people who knew Molly, that sounded almost impossible.

“She never would just leave her job. We knew it,” says Magi. “We knew. And I kept saying something is very wrong.”
......Later that afternoon, when it finally became clear to police that Molly wasn't with her boyfriend or any of her buddies, they moved on to what they considered the next logical possibility. "They were saying she drowned and I was saying there's no possible way,” says her brother, John.
Why is it that precious time is so frequently wasted in searching for someone because police won't listen to families.....why do they so often presume to know the person better than those who are closest to them...Later Magi Bish, Molly's mom had this to say:
"I could read in their eyes, they wanted to bring Molly home so bad and they couldn't,” says Magi. "You can lose your keys, and you can lose your glasses, but how in America do you lose your child?”

I believe Tim Mcguigan worked with a criminal profiler on Molly Bish's case by the name of John Kelly. John Kelly, based on his backgroud predicted that Molly's body would be found on higher ground. The hunter's name was Ricky Boudreau who had seen the piece of Molly's suit months before he lead Tim Mcguigan to it....in another article I read that although he had seen it, he dismissed it because it was blue not red, and he had assumed that since Molly was a lifeguard she would be wearing a red bathing suit. Because of the finding, Tim Mcguigan contacted the police who searched the area and found Molly. Later when they were filming the story....after forensic teams had searched the area, Tim Mcguigan found another piece of the bathing suit and was visibly disturbed that the forensic teams had missed it. It appeared, from the story when I watched it, that it is because of Tim Mcguigan's not giving up on finding Molly Bish and his willingness to talk about the case and listen to anybody who had something to say that Molly was brought home to her family.
 
I also just found this which appears on the Forum for Molly Bish, but appears to be a newspaper article.....
Legal tiff over evidence in Molly case

From: watcher
Date: 08 Aug 2003
Time: 19:43:46



Comments

Thursday, August 7, 2003 Legal tiff over evidence in Molly case Investigator tells of new find Bradford L. Miner TELEGRAM & GAZETTE STAFF Timothy S. McGuigan stands recently near a memorial in East Brimfield where Holly Piirainen's remains were found in 1993. A former police patrolman who is writing a book about the killings of two Central Massachusetts girls is in the middle of a legal tug-of-war between the Worcester district attorney's office and CBS regarding a videotape showing possible evidence in one case. Timothy S. McGuigan of Auburn, an unemployed police officer who worked five years in North Brookfield and six weeks in Sturbridge, has been the object of speculation because of his investigation of the killings of Molly Anne Bish of Warren and Holly Piirainen of Grafton. Mr. McGuigan talked about his unauthorized investigation of Holly's abduction; a scrap of blue bathing suit in Molly's case found on Whiskey Hill in Palmer after state police had completed a search of the area; and a subpoena for a CBS film crew's videotape of the possible additional evidence. And at some point this fall, Mr. McGuigan will likely have an opportunity to tell his story to a national audience during a segment taped for "CBS 48 Hours Investigates." The program will look at the ongoing investigation of the Bish and Piirainen abductions. "I really don't care what anyone says or thinks about what I've done," Mr. McGuigan. "I only want to see justice served." Others see it differently. District Attorney John J. Conte declined to comment on Mr. McGuigan's involvement in Molly's case, and told reporters as recently as Saturday that there are seven primary suspects, all of whom live in the Warren area and some of whom are convicted sex offenders. Mr. McGuigan said he has provided state police with a DNA sample but refused to take a polygraph test. On May 28, members of the Bish and Piirainen families join other families whose children were killed to mark Massachusetts Children's Day at the Statehouse in Boston. Asked why he would not take a lie detector test, Mr. McGuigan said, "The DA has made a point of the fact that 11 people have failed a polygraph test. Am I going to make it an even dozen? It's an investigative tool, and that's all it is." A CBS producer has corroborated Mr. McGuigan's assertion that the Worcester district attorney's office is trying to obtain the CBS film crew's videotape of the recovery of another piece of blue bathing suit from Whiskey Hill after the intensive June search of the wooded Palmer hillside for Molly's skeletal remains and other physical evidence had concluded. State police detectives from Hampden and Worcester counties continue to look for breaks in the two cases involving Holly, who was 10 when she was abducted Aug. 5, 1993, in Sturbridge, and Molly, who was 16 when she was abducted June 27, 2000, in Warren. A single suspect in both cases has not been ruled out by investigators. Holly was staying at her grandmother's cottage on South Pond in Sturbridge. She went for a walk with her brother, Zachary, to visit a neighbor's puppies and was abducted near the intersection of Allen Road and South Shore Drive. Hunters found her remains Oct. 23, 1993, on Five Bridge Road in East Brimfield. Molly was reporting for lifeguard duty when she disappeared from the town beach at Comins Pond in Warren. Partial skeletal remains of the teenager were found on the steep, wooded Palmer hillside in early June. Mr. McGuigan said he has had a compelling interest in the Piirainen case since November 2000. In May, he led state police detectives to the blue bathing suit Molly was likely wearing the day she vanished. That evidence spawned a search that culminated in 40 percent of Molly's remains being recovered by searchers. "It hasn't been an easy road by any means, and I've dealt with some difficult personal issues along the way, including a divorce, but I wouldn't have done anything differently," Mr. McGuigan said. Mr. McGuigan said he and Ricky Boudreau of West Hardwick led a CBS film crew to the site where the blue bathing suit was recovered. Mr. Boudreau, a hunter, first encountered the piece of clothing partially hidden beneath leaves while bow hunting for deer last November near the Nenameseck Sportmen's Club in Palmer. "When we went up there, it was no longer a crime scene. They (the film crew) wanted to see where we found the suit, and we showed them," Mr. McGuigan said. "They had been filming for a while and Ricky looked down, turning over some leaves, and came up with a 1-inch by ½-inch piece of blue material, the same material from the swimsuit, possibly a piece from the shoulder strap. They've got the whole thing on tape," he said. Mr. McGuigan said Mr. Boudreau handed the scrap of cloth to Miguel Sancho, CBS 48 Hours producer, who then gave it to the state police. "Rather than thank us, District Attorney John J. Conte issued a subpoena to CBS to secure the tape," he said. Reached at his office in New York City, Mr. Sancho confirmed that Mr. Conte has taken legal steps to obtain the tapes. "We haven't been given a reason, and he (the district attorney) hasn't come out and said McGuigan is a suspect. McGuigan has been more than willing to talk to the district attorney both before and after the discovery of the swimsuit," Mr. Sancho said. He confirmed Mr. McGuigan's account of the events about when the additional evidence was found. "We're resisting the subpoena, and we've filed a motion and a brief. There's supposed to be a hearing and oral arguments at some point in Superior Court in Worcester, but I haven't been told when," Mr. Sancho said. On May 16, Mr. McGuigan led state police detectives to a site 100 yards east of West Ware Road in Palmer to where two orange snow scrapers marked the location of a one-piece, lifeguard-style blue bathing suit. Mr. McGuigan said his introduction into Molly's case was a simple matter of responding to police instincts. He said that in May he was dating Shelley Boudreau, sister of the hunter who had found the bathing suit. "She suggested we go to her brother's house. While we were sitting, talking at the kitchen table, Ricky happened to mention a blue bathing suit he'd found in the woods in Warren while deer hunting last November. That was May 14. "I told him it might be significant to the Bish case, and he said he thought lifeguard bathing suits were orange. I asked him to show me the next day where he found the suit," Mr. McGuigan said. Mr. McGuigan said he, Mr. Boudreau and a friend, Jay Harrington, met the next day, went to the Nenameseck Sportsmen's Club, parked and walked up into the woods on the other side of West Ware Road. "We were about 100 yards off the road, and Jay and I were ahead. Ricky shouted, "I found it,' and we turned around. He picked up the suit and put it down," he said. Mr. McGuigan said he used a cell phone to try to call his friend Trooper Robert E. Benoit of Oakham. Trooper Benoit, a 29-year state police veteran, is assigned to the Brookfield barracks. "He wasn't home, but his wife suggested I call Troop C headquarters in Holden. Two hours later, we're being eaten alive by bugs, and it was getting late, and no one had shown up," Mr. McGuigan said. He said he drove to Ware and asked for assistance from the first officer he encountered, Patrolman Paul Skutnik. "I told him what I had, and he came up to the scene. I asked him if he had any crime scene tape, and he said no, just the orange snow scrapers that we used to mark the site," he said. "The officer also informed us that we weren't in Ware or Warren, but in Palmer," he said. Mr. McGuigan said that the next day, May 16, he spoke to Trooper Benoit, who assured him that state police detectives and state police crime scene services were on their way to the scene. "I took pictures that morning of the bathing suit, before they arrived, just to protect myself. I suspected then, based on what I had found on the Internet describing what Molly was wearing when she disappeared, that this was her bathing suit," Mr. McGuigan said. "We walked up into the woods, and I was surprised they (police) didn't have a shovel. They had to borrow a knife to cut away some of the roots. They put the bathing suit into a bag, gathered up some leaves and left," he said. Asked what sparked his interest in the Piirainen case, Mr. McGuigan said he looks back on Nov. 30, 2000, as a day that would change his life. He was working then as a North Brookfield patrolman. According to retired Police Chief Peter C. Fullam, Mr. McGuigan was "an exemplary officer." Mr. McGuigan said a woman, whose identity he withheld, told him she was referred to him by a part-time West Brookfield patrolman. "The gist of this woman's story was that she had overheard a conversation her boyfriend was having, during which he admitted direct involvement in Holly's abduction and murder, as well as the destruction of evidence," he said. "I was stunned by what she told me, but I tried not to show it. This is the kind of tip that some guys in law enforcement go 30 years and never get," he said. At that time, the 7-year-old investigation into Holly Piirainen's killing was still an active case under the Hampden County district attorney's office. Lt. Peter J. Higgins has confirmed that Mr. McGuigan had provided information to the Hampden County district attorney's office and that detectives had followed up on it. "Because of the politics of police work, I knew if I started poking around I was going to step on toes. I knew I couldn't do it alone, so I called Bobby Benoit," Mr. McGuigan said. "Trooper Benoit and I knew each other, and more importantly, trusted each other. Based on the woman's story, we started interviewing people together," he said. Less than three months later, Mr. McGuigan said, Trooper Benoit received an order from a superior officer instructing him to cease any on- or off-duty investigation of either case. "When Bob received the letter, that's when he stopped, but I continued to poke around," he said. Mr. McGuigan has two primary suspects in the Holly Piirainen case who may have been working together and discounts speculation Holly's death might have been the result of a traffic accident. The former patrolman said he investigated scores of traffic accidents while working as a patrolman and there was no evidence at Allen Road and South Shore Drive to suggest Holly was hit by a car. "If someone had hit the child, why would they have bothered to stop and pick her up? That's why these accidents are called hit and run. Assuming someone did hit her by accident, why wouldn't they have brought her to the nearest hospital for medical attention?" he said. Mr. McGuigan said his compulsion with the Holly Piirainen case ultimately cost him his job on the Sturbridge police force. "I was spending a lot of time on the Holly case and Chief (Thomas R.) Button and I didn't see eye to eye," he said. "I handed over the entire investigation I had been working on since North Brookfield and after six weeks resigned." Chief Button could not be reached for comment. As for similarities between the cases, Mr. McGuigan stated, "In both cases you have a person smart enough to leave no evidence at the crime scene. You have a victim that's consistent in appearance, despite the age difference, and profilers will tell you that many times, as a predator ages, his victims are older as well." Continuing, he said, "In both cases, the bodies of the victims were found within five miles of the point where they were abducted. The person or persons who committed these crimes didn't want to be seen and certainly didn't want the victims to be seen, so on instinct each was taken to a wooded area, indicating a person who is comfortable in the woods." "I have no knowledge of how these children were killed, but there are similarities in the two cases, and I believe they both were sex crimes," Mr. McGuigan said. The clear differences in the case, Mr. McGuigan said, is that Holly's abduction had to be chance, while there is some indication that Molly was stalked before she was abducted. http://www.mollybish.org/forum5/disc3_frm.htm
 
Hi Grassy, WOW I wish I hadn't clicked on this post at 11pm just before bed as I really want to read it in detail with a clear head. One thing I did want to mention was his obsession (and McGuigan admits himself he did have an obsession) with Holly's case cost him his marriage and seeing his own children, and personally I don't feel what he's achieved could be worth that. His own children deserve so much more, and he's given that time to another family's child.
 
Nicboc,



Tim McGuigan does not need me to defend his honor but I will comment on your post.

Your assessment of Tim McGuigan and his relationship with his children is offensive to me. Do you know Tim? Do you know that he doesn’t see his children?



You “don’t feel what he’s achieved could be worth that.” The answer to that could only come from Tim himself, his family, and the families of Molly Bish and Holly Piirainen.

Tim brought Molly home. Do you have any understanding or sensitivity to what these families are going through and will always go through? My belief is that Tim is well aware of it and it may possibly have contributed to his ‘obsession.’ There is no comparison with writing on a forum and sitting across the table from a person who has a loved one missing or murdered.

 
silver said:
Nicboc,



Tim McGuigan does not need me to defend his honor but I will comment on your post.

Your assessment of Tim McGuigan and his relationship with his children is offensive to me. Do you know Tim? Do you know that he doesn’t see his children?



You “don’t feel what he’s achieved could be worth that.” The answer to that could only come from Tim himself, his family, and the families of Molly Bish and Holly Piirainen.

Tim brought Molly home. Do you have any understanding or sensitivity to what these families are going through and will always go through? My belief is that Tim is well aware of it and it may possibly have contributed to his ‘obsession.’ There is no comparison with writing on a forum and sitting across the table from a person who has a loved one missing or murdered.
Silver, what I said came DIRECTLY from McGuigan himself from the 48 hours program. He himself said that he no longer saw his children, that his marriage had failed. It is not my assessment at all, but McGuigan's assessment from his own mouth.
 
I still stand by what I said - he did indeed do alot of good I am sure in his investigations, but at what cost? Are you seriously saying that it's worth it for him to have lost his own in family in order to have found a bit of a bathing suit? I would refute that he "brought Molly home" - he didn't actually find her body. He found something that led to that. It's probably she would ahve been found at some point anyway. I'm not saying that he did no good at all, I am saying that if he lost his own family in the process of what he did, then that's too high a price to pay in my opinion. You can never get a childhood back, once gone it's gone forever, and if he BY HIS OWN ADMISSION was spending all his time searching for Holly's killer and not with his own family then I cannot say that's a good thing.
 
WasBlind said:
I just received this on e-mail from a gal with the Bish Foundation. Thanks, Marti!!

"John got his car back - here's the article. I guess his wallet was gone."

Tuesday, May 25, 2004

John Bish's car is recovered at restaurant

T&G STAFF

WORCESTER- Police have recovered John J. Bish's car, three days after it was stolen outside Worcester County Courthouse.

Mr. Bish had just finished testifying before an investigative grand jury Thursday morning about the disappearance and death of his 16-year-old daughter, Molly A. Bish. The grand jury is hearing testimony from about 100 witnesses in the disappearance of Miss Bish, whose remains were discovered in June 2003 in Palmer.

Mr. Bish witnessed the theft of his 1997 Ford Escort while talking with someone on the State Street side of the courthouse.

Sgt. Gary J. Quitadamo, police spokesman, said police received a call at approximately 12:15 p.m. Sunday, reporting that Mr. Bish's vehicle was parked at the La Caza restaurant and bar, 387 Cambridge St.

According to Sgt. Quitadamo, the caller noticed the vehicle as early as 5 a.m. Friday morning, but thought it may have belonged to a patron of the bar. Sunday, after reading a newspaper account of the theft, the person called police.

Sgt. Quitadamo said there was minor damage to the right front fender and turn signal, but it was unclear if it was pre-existing damage. Police had not yet determined if anything was stolen from inside the vehicle.


Does anyone know if the Grand Jury came back on anything concerning Molly's case?

Ocean
 
I just found this site and am wondering if there are updates or not.

I found it really odd that 11 people failed a polygraph. It sounds to me like there is something wrong with the machine or the person who is giving the poly. How could 11 people fail. That can't be right. I don't blame Tim for refusing to take the test. I would normally say "no problem" to taking a poly but even I would have refused that one. Another machine and person giving the test and that would be fine.....not that one though.

I don't think this ex-police officer is the first cop who has gotten really caught up in a case of a missing child. These guys are human with emotions like the rest of us. He states that he doesn't regret a thing that he has done concerning the missing 10 yr old. If he is satisfied then I don't think it is up to us to tear him apart. We don't know the whole story of the loss of his marriage or if he sees his kids or not. For all we know his marriage might have been on the rocks before he became so involved in the missing little girl case.

I do commend him for not giving up. For the cold cases that have been solved there is always that one cop, detective, investigator, that refused to give up.
 
I just saw John and Magi Bish yesterday. There aren't any mejor updates.
 

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