CA CA - Elizabeth Short 'Black Dahlia', 22, Los Angeles, 15 Jan 1947

Stella said:
Be warned about which Black Dahlia book you read. One of them has the autopsy photos in it. Freaked me out so bad, I slept with the lights on for three weeks!
The Black Dahlia Files, The Mob, The Mogel, and the Murder that transfixed Los Angeles has the photos. Its by Donald H. Wolfe. Its a very good book IMO. It addresses some of the claims such as Docs claim.
 
Stella said:
Be warned about which Black Dahlia book you read. One of them has the autopsy photos in it. Freaked me out so bad, I slept with the lights on for three weeks!
I did see the pics once and it freaked me out too. Wasn't she dismembered?
 
michelle said:
I did see the pics once and it freaked me out too. Wasn't she dismembered?


Michelle, she was cut in half.

WARNING - EXPLICIT INFORMATION:

According to autopsy reports, there was quote, "a deep laceration on the face 3" long, which extends laterally from the right corner of the mouth.....There is a deep laceration 2 1/2" inches long extending laterally from the left corner of the mouth." (Those who witnessed the body lying in the ditch said that it appeared Short was smiling.) Severe bruising was present in several places on Short's head and neck, and there were also several small cuts on her upper lip. However, the hyoid bone was intact and there was no evidence of trauma near the thyroid glands or trachea, which would be indicative of strangulation. Multiple cuts and scratches also marked her chest, torso, and arms. A small, square shaped piece of skin was missing from her thigh - it was later found shoved far into her vagina, along with a fair amount of grass. For whatever reason, her killer or killers had cut off the small rose tattoo on her thigh and placed it inside her body. It also appeared that Short had been brutally sodomized post-mortem. Her stomach was also filled with quote "greenish brown granular matter, mostly feces and other particles that could not be identified." Perhaps surprisingly, there was no precense of sperm anywhere on her body.

Elizabeth Short was no doubt subjected to some form of torture before and after she died, as brusing only occurs in the living. In the end, the injuries to her face and head were listed as the cause of death. Her injuries display obvious signs of overkill...the cuts to the face and head injuries are hallmarks of overkill. The extent of her injuries could mean one of two things: Elizabeth Short was killed by someone who knew her, someone close to her, in a fit of rage. (Overkill is often present in crimes where the killer and victim are close to one another, as are injuries to the face and head, and other forms of mutilation.) On the other hand, her killer may have been a psychopath who chose her as his next victim. But if this were true, the murder of Elizabeth Short would not be such a person's first victim. It takes years of festering madness to reach the level of brutality achieved in her death. Serial killers evolve over time and modify how they kill. If an act gives them gratification, they will build on that. If a roaming killer murdered Elizabeth Short, this was no fledging criminal.

MORE AT:

http://members.tripod.com/~VanessaWest/elizabeth.html
 
Jeana (DP) said:
Michelle, she was cut in half.

WARNING - EXPLICIT INFORMATION:

According to autopsy reports, there was quote, "a deep laceration on the face 3" long, which extends laterally from the right corner of the mouth.....There is a deep laceration 2 1/2" inches long extending laterally from the left corner of the mouth." (Those who witnessed the body lying in the ditch said that it appeared Short was smiling.) Severe bruising was present in several places on Short's head and neck, and there were also several small cuts on her upper lip. However, the hyoid bone was intact and there was no evidence of trauma near the thyroid glands or trachea, which would be indicative of strangulation. Multiple cuts and scratches also marked her chest, torso, and arms. A small, square shaped piece of skin was missing from her thigh - it was later found shoved far into her vagina, along with a fair amount of grass. For whatever reason, her killer or killers had cut off the small rose tattoo on her thigh and placed it inside her body. It also appeared that Short had been brutally sodomized post-mortem. Her stomach was also filled with quote "greenish brown granular matter, mostly feces and other particles that could not be identified." Perhaps surprisingly, there was no precense of sperm anywhere on her body.

Elizabeth Short was no doubt subjected to some form of torture before and after she died, as brusing only occurs in the living. In the end, the injuries to her face and head were listed as the cause of death. Her injuries display obvious signs of overkill...the cuts to the face and head injuries are hallmarks of overkill. The extent of her injuries could mean one of two things: Elizabeth Short was killed by someone who knew her, someone close to her, in a fit of rage. (Overkill is often present in crimes where the killer and victim are close to one another, as are injuries to the face and head, and other forms of mutilation.) On the other hand, her killer may have been a psychopath who chose her as his next victim. But if this were true, the murder of Elizabeth Short would not be such a person's first victim. It takes years of festering madness to reach the level of brutality achieved in her death. Serial killers evolve over time and modify how they kill. If an act gives them gratification, they will build on that. If a roaming killer murdered Elizabeth Short, this was no fledging criminal.

MORE AT:

http://members.tripod.com/~VanessaWest/elizabeth.html
Holy Cow Jeana!!!!! What the heck, I have never in my life read such gruesome info of a murder. I have read alot and this is just insane. What kind of person could or would do this? And I wonder if it was one or two people??
 
In my experience, two people don't keep a secret. My guess is the only way we don't know the answer to this mystery is if one person and one SMART person only did this crimel.
 
If it were two people I would investigate every male homocide for two years after her death. One of the murderers could have killed his accomplice to keep things quiet. I agree it would be difficult for both parties to keep their silence, it would be too tempting to cut a deal and rat out the other party. And with all the suspects the police had, it's quite possible their guy or guys were on the list.
 
Is there a movie out about this case? I thought I heard one time that "L.A. Confidential" or something like that was about this????
 
There is a movie titled, "The Black Dahlia" scheduled to be released on September 15. It is directed by Brian De Palma and adapted from the James Ellroy novel. This film has been delayed several times, but according to imdb.com will appear this September.
 
michelle said:
Is there a movie out about this case? I thought I heard one time that "L.A. Confidential" or something like that was about this????

There also was a made for TV movie released in 1975 starring Lucie Arnaz as The Black Dahlia. As I remember, it was a pretty good film. I don't know about its availability on VHS or DVD though.
 
Sorry I forgot to tell you the name of it..It was called Who Is the Black Dahlia?
 
James Ellroy is going to be on the Catherine Crier show on CourtTV tomorrow (Wednesday) according to the host. Maybe he will discuss the movie of his Black Dahlia novel.
 
William N said:
James Ellroy is going to be on the Catherine Crier show on CourtTV tomorrow (Wednesday) according to the host. Maybe he will discuss the movie of his Black Dahlia novel.
I definatly want to see that movie!!
 
I remember reading this book when it first came out in hardcover. I remember thinking how he seemed to base his theories on very few actual facts and more on his interpretations of events. I’m never truly sold on photos. I mean how many times have I gotten my hopes up reading a thread where the victim looks so much like a Jane Doe only be proven wrong. Yes I know I am a skeptic and proudly one :pbut the whole time I was reading this book, I felt like not only was Hodel trying to convince me that his dad was the killer but felt like he was also trying to convince himself.

Two things struck me as very odd. First if he truly believed that those photos were BD why didn’t he take them to a forensic anthropologist so that they could be compared to the known photos of BD? More than likely he knew it wouldn’t stand up and the whole basis of the book would be shot. Computer alignment doesn’t lie and it can’t be manipulated.

Second: Why didn’t he ask for the DNA that was on the envelopes? Being a police officer certainly would have helped grease those tracks.

I think just like P.Cornwell did with the Ripper case, he tries too hard to make things fit that just don’t. By leaving out information that doesn’t jib he can present a case that simply doesn’t hold water. :sick:
 
I think that someone did compare the photos, and said they were not of Elizabeth Short.
 
So are the pics of her or someone else?
 
Autopsy photos are in the book Severed: The True Story of the Black Dahlia Murder by John Gilmore.
 
The pictures that were compared (the ones Steve Hodel claimed were Elizabeth Short) to an actual photo of Elizabeth Short were determined to not be photos of her.

""But what about the photographs of the mystery woman found in the album, the ones that started Steve on his investigation? Is this, in fact, Elizabeth Short?

"Initially, I did think that they were very, very close," says forensic artist Sunni Chapman, who uses and distributes E-Fit, facial recognition software that compiles detailed sketches of suspects for police investigations.

Chapman examined two of the photos and initially saw a lot of similarities between Elizabeth Short and the mystery woman. But upon closer examination, and after measuring the facial features in both photos, Chapman said she was "85 percent certain that these two photographs are not of the same woman."""
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/11/23/48hours/main657318_page3.shtml


The photos he claimed were Elizabeth Short are here:

http://lmharnisch.com/you_judge.html
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
63
Guests online
2,617
Total visitors
2,680

Forum statistics

Threads
592,185
Messages
17,964,822
Members
228,714
Latest member
hannahdunnam
Back
Top