They need to arrest John Ramsey soon...

michelle said:

That is exactly why I dont understand. How can they have no evidence against the Ramseys but so many are "sure" of their guilt?

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Because contrary to what some here imply, the evidence isn't sooooooooo great to point to their guilt.

Do people lhonestly think that if the evidence was there for an almsot certain ramsey hanging that the DA wouldn't have busted one of them by now? COME ON. They arrested a guy based on some emails. If they had this supposed "smoking gun" evidence for ramsey guilt they'd have acted on it.

The longer the case goes on the WORSE they look.

Look, I am not saying the ramseys are 100% but it is common sense to see they arent easily guilty since they'd have been charged by now.

michelle said:

That is exactly why I dont understand. How can they have no evidence against the Ramseys but so many are "sure" of their guilt?

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There is evidence that was not presented to Judge Carnes or the Grand Jury that implicates the Ramsey's.

The Ramsey's refused to take a polygraph or talk to LE for 4 months! And then, it was their own selected polygrapher, not one from the police! They tried to board John's private plane for Michigan, despite JB's body just being found- I think that should trump Christmas celebrations, don't you? Kinda like Scott Peterson and his parents still having Christmas dinner with the neighbor instead of looking for the "missing" wife they knew was already dead and by whom.

Patsy was NOT eliminated as the writer of the note, we now know JMK didn't write it!

John's black shirt fibers were found on JB's genitals, that can't be explained except for sexual abuse.

.

Buzzm1 said:

It appears the JonBenet Ramsey forum will very rapidly revert back to exactly the same thing it has been for quite a few years now; a place for the RDI's to hang and comiserate about the Ramseys never having been tried, and convicted. The reason the Ramseys haven't been tried, is for one very simple reason. There isn't any real evidence against them. It's that simple. Hopefully this recent episode drew the real killer back to the surface again, and hopefully he'll stay surfaced for awhile, and maybe some astute LE internet person can make contact with him. That's the best we can hope for.

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There is plenty of evidence to raise eyebrows, questions, and suspicions...but not enough evidence to try a Ramsey and convict.

With this latest debacle...either there was no intruder, or the intruder was absolutely perfect. Though it makes no sense this absolutely perfect intruder chose to leave behind his own handwriting to be examined.

If there was an intruder/killer...he committed the crime flawlessly and has kept his head down for 10 years.
Only way things could point to an intruder is if Karr for instance actually spoke with the real killer. That's unlikely.

In this case things always seem to lead back to the Ramseys...because of what evidence there is...it points towards the Ramseys or raises troubling questions.

Buzzm1 said:

If I was John Ramsey, and the media swarmed me, more than once, let alone my son on his first arrival at his dorm, I would also want to leave the U.S.. I have seen the media in action, and it isn't a pleasant sight, especially if you happen to be in the middle of them, and don't want to be there, and they have hounded you for ten years..

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... and you killed your daughter.

narlacat said:

Capp, I am as frustrated as you.

They got away with it, it's that simple.

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they sure did...there will never be any justice for JonBenet

JBean said:

Hi Buzz. it's because they didn't do it.

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JBean, you, and I, and michelle know that, but we don't want to force our opinion, based on existing evidence, on anyone else, do we. If they want to believe, what they believe, for whatever reason they believe, what they believe, who are we to argue with them.

narlacat said:

Well, let's see.
Maybe it has something to do with their lying and their refusal to co operate with LE.
Maybe it has something to do with PR not being able to be eliminated as the writer of the note.
Maybe it has something to do with the fact they were trying to get out of town within the hour of their daughters body being found.
Maybe it has something to do with fibre evidence.
You want more reasons, I got more

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Oh come on...first, the fibre evidence thing is silly. THEY LIVE IN THE HOUSE. Fibres will travel.

Second, the hand writing thing doesn't mean much. I bet many people would not be eliminated from it. Because she wasnt totally eliminated is IMO lame evidence to try and support this theory.

Do you really think if they were guilty they'd try and get out of town ASAP when it was OBVIOUS they'd be suspects? Wouldnt you think that would help point to them?


I can see them being stubborn with trying to work with LE since it seems they were being tried and convited by LE and the media 3.2 seconds after the case opened. That'd tick me off too if I was innocent yet people continued to claim i was guilty.

I am not saying they are innocent (I HAVE NO CLUE) but the evidence you listed is IMO silly and points to nothing.

LinasK said:

John's black shirt fibers were found on JB's genitals, that can't be explained except for sexual abuse.

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So the fibers that were on her were definatly JR's? I always thought that was a rumor???? See I am confused, lol...

Buzzm1 said:

JBean, you, and I, and michelle know that, but we don't want to force our opinion, based on existing evidence, on anyone else, do we. If they want to believe, what they believe, for whatever reason they believe, what they believe, who are we to argue with them.

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I won't argue it Buzz. There is no point. I believe it based on all the homework I have done. We all have access to the same information and are drawing different conclusions. so it goes.


ps: I got my phone call from the sea today

michelle...anything & everything you ever wanted to know about JBR's death is here....

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20136

michelle said:

So the fibers that were on her were definatly JR's? I always thought that was a rumor???? See I am confused, lol...

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Michelle, call me confused also. I don't know what is true, or what is false. I do know one thing though. I just can't bring myself to believe, that the Ramseys, murdered their daughter. I can't go there. I would have to have solid proof. No way they did it. If it is proved beyond a reasonable doubt, I will sad and shocked, to say the least.

close_enough said:

michelle...anything & everything you ever wanted to know about JBR's death is here....

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20136

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Thanks..

lilpony said:

Michelle, call me confused also. I don't know what is true, or what is false. I do know one thing though. I just can't bring myself to believe, that the Ramseys, murdered their daughter. I can't go there. I would have to have solid proof. No way they did it. If it is proved beyond a reasonable doubt, I will sad and shocked, to say the least.

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I am with you. It makes no sense to me at all.

lilpony said:

Michelle, call me confused also. I don't know what is true, or what is false. I do know one thing though. I just can't bring myself to believe, that the Ramseys, murdered their daughter. I can't go there. I would have to have solid proof. No way they did it. If it is proved beyond a reasonable doubt, I will sad and shocked, to say the least.

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I'm not trying to start anything here - none of us know for sure if your theory is correct, but - Why? Why do you have a hard time beleiving the R's could do this? It wouldn't be the first time parents killed thier child - not by a long shot. Wouldn't be the first time parents sexually abused a child either. There is no reason to eliminate the R's just because they are parents.

"I really dont understand if the evidence is there against the Ramseys, what happened? I truly dont understand. What is the evidence? Is is that they acted "Weird" or there were fibers that were on JBR that matched PR sweater?"

Fibers from her sweater were found on the sticky side of the duct tape, the blanket her body was wrapped in, and tied INTO the knots of the cord she was strangled with. That's just for openers!

"Argue that with the judge, and the Grand Jury. Your peer group."

Just what is THAT supposed to mean?

"Second I also thought that I read PR was eliminated as the writer."

Nope, not even close.

"Fourth is this the Fibers from PR's sweater? And if so is it so uncommon that they would be on JBR? I mean she is her mom?"

But they weren't ON JBR. They were on items Patsy claimed she never saw or never went near wearing said sweater.

"How can they have no evidence against the Ramseys but so many are "sure" of their guilt?"

No evidence?! I've got a list I can have up in no time!

"The Grand jury, and a separate judge couldn't find reason to indict the Ramseys."

Much of the evidence wasn't IN when the GJ was in session and a judge who saw none of the police evidence. Dan Caplis talked about that today.

"Do people lhonestly think that if the evidence was there for an almsot certain ramsey hanging that the DA wouldn't have busted one of them by now?"

The DA has PROVEN to be biased toward the Ramseys as far back as 1998. It's a verifiable fact. I can show it to you if you want.

"They arrested a guy based on some emails. If they had this supposed "smoking gun" evidence for ramsey guilt they'd have acted on it."

I can't figure it either.

"There is evidence that was not presented to Judge Carnes or the Grand Jury that implicates the Ramsey's."

YES! Always a pleasure, LinasK!
"
The Ramsey's refused to take a polygraph or talk to LE for 4 months! And then, it was their own selected polygrapher, not one from the police! They tried to board John's private plane for Michigan, despite JB's body just being found- I think that should trump Christmas celebrations, don't you? Kinda like Scott Peterson and his parents still having Christmas dinner with the neighbor instead of looking for the "missing" wife they knew was already dead and by whom."

"Patsy was NOT eliminated as the writer of the note, we now know JMK didn't write it!"

Yep.

"John's black shirt fibers were found on JB's genitals, that can't be explained except for sexual abuse."

And don't they know it!

"If they want to believe, what they believe, for whatever reason they believe, what they believe, who are we to argue with them."

Yeah, we foolishly cling to evidence in the face of adversity! LOL

"Fibres will travel."

To the basement?

"So the fibers that were on her were definatly JR's? I always thought that was a rumor???? See I am confused, lol..."

it's no rumor, michelle.

"It wouldn't be the first time parents killed thier child - not by a long shot. Wouldn't be the first time parents sexually abused a child either. There is no reason to eliminate the R's just because they are parents."

Not by a damn sight!

RJML said:

Oh come on...first, the fibre evidence thing is silly. THEY LIVE IN THE HOUSE. Fibres will travel.

Second, the hand writing thing doesn't mean much. I bet many people would not be eliminated from it. Because she wasnt totally eliminated is IMO lame evidence to try and support this theory.

Do you really think if they were guilty they'd try and get out of town ASAP when it was OBVIOUS they'd be suspects? Wouldnt you think that would help point to them?


I can see them being stubborn with trying to work with LE since it seems they were being tried and convited by LE and the media 3.2 seconds after the case opened. That'd tick me off too if I was innocent yet people continued to claim i was guilty.

I am not saying they are innocent (I HAVE NO CLUE) but the evidence you listed is IMO silly and points to nothing.

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but they weren't......parents/family members are always the first to be suspected/questioned in an investigation where a child has been murdered....parents with nothing to hide, have no reason to be "stubborn"....the R's were treated like royalty pretty much, at the beginning, then it became quite apparent that their 'story' had holes in it....i will always believe that if John or Patsy didn't kill JBR, then they definately covered for someone....

If you haven't read all the transcripts in this case, don't complain why you don't understand the concept of RDI.

Chrishope said:

I'm not trying to start anything here - none of us know for sure if your theory is correct, but - Why? Why do you have a hard time beleiving the R's could do this? It wouldn't be the first time parents killed thier child - not by a long shot. Wouldn't be the first time parents sexually abused a child either. There is no reason to eliminate the R's just because they are parents.

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exactly....go read a few threads over at "crimes in the news"....parents kill/abuse their own children....it's nothing new

Chrishope said:

I'm not trying to start anything here - none of us know for sure if your theory is correct, but - Why? Why do you have a hard time beleiving the R's could do this? It wouldn't be the first time parents killed thier child - not by a long shot. Wouldn't be the first time parents sexually abused a child either. There is no reason to eliminate the R's just because they are parents.

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Well, I am just not sure that they did this. I know parents everyday, murder their children and abuse them. But with this case, the way JBR was murdered. I just do not want to believe that they would do all this to their little girl. I just can't believe it, I just can't go there. It has to be proven to me that they did it. I just don't know how a parent could do this. I can't comprehend it or I just don't want too.
Do you understand what I am trying to say?

michelle said:

Well that is what I am getting at, I really dont understand if the evidence is there against the Ramseys, what happened? I truly dont understand. What is the evidence? Is is that they acted "Weird" or there were fibers that were on JBR that matched PR sweater? I dont know.

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--->>>I for one would like to see ALL of the telephone records for Christmas Day AM, until 2 PM December 26th.

WE would know then who called whom, and what time anyone was called, 10 PM, 11PM, 12PM, 1AM etc etc.

Bank records would be good too, HOW much JR cash receivables the end of 1997 when JR sold his plane at a loss to his private pilot.

WE never knew ANY of this, which leaves wonderment for me.

Plus all of the ODD behaviors that WE have never seen in Marc Klaas, Ms. Runnion, Walsh etc. etc. OR ANY murdered childs parent.

.